Best DEs/Pass rushers in 2014 class

Husse said:

Murphy was Mayo's guy early in the process, so he's been talked about at lenght.

And to me those numbers lie, he just doesn't play up to them on tape.

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As a Murphy fan, even I think the numbers "lie" a little. The unique Stanford conditioning program has many benefits, and maximizing combine measurables seems to be one of them. IMO Stanford players seldom seem to take big leaps forward in the NFL; most often, they already are what they are.

The good news in Murphy's case is that what he already is -- taking into account size, strength, athleticism, instincts, technique, versatility, work ethic and leadership skills -- looks to me like a workhorse 4-3 LDE and solid 2nd-round pick. Whether that's what the Patriots are looking for is another question, of course.

patchick said:

As a Murphy fan, even I think the numbers "lie" a little. The unique Stanford conditioning program has many benefits, and maximizing combine measurables seems to be one of them. IMO Stanford players seldom seem to take big leaps forward in the NFL; most often, they already are what they are.

The good news in Murphy's case is that what he already is -- taking into account size, strength, athleticism, instincts, technique, versatility, work ethic and leadership skills -- looks to me like a workhorse 4-3 LDE and solid 2nd-round pick. Whether that's what the Patriots are looking for is another question, of course.

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I would like Murphy a whole lot more if we were still a 3-4 team. I agree with all of the traits you mentioned about him except for size, where I don't think he is stout enough to be a base 4-3 DE, especially on the left side. At his current size I think he could get mauled in the run game by NFL RT's. He could try and add bulk, but I like him much better as a 3-4 OLB where I think he has adequate athleticism and his versatility would shine. I might consider him in the late 2nd round but if he fell to the 3rd I think he would be good value as a rotational pass rusher. He's a blue collar football player much like his teammate Ben Gardner, and I will take a football player over an athlete any day.

Brady6 said:

Michael Buchanan is a better athlete than all three of them….

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If Buchanan makes the "year two leap", is it enough to go from virtually nothing to being #3 in a three man rotation?

Clearly he will be stronger and better conditioned after a year in the S&C program, but is that enough?

No, I don't think Michael Buchanan will take a significant stride and burst onto the scene.

That's why I like another Bucannon, Deone, a SS from Washington State or DE Scott Crichton from Oregon State if we stay in the first. Both are underrated but are beginning to climb.

It's about beating the Broncos in Foxboro for the AFC Championship. Cover the receivers or get to the QB.

Crichton's family story and character are the stuff of movies. He's like the second coming of Mike Vrabel in more than size and non-stop motor--he gets it done.

James Gayle is interesting. He's smallish but very fast off the edge. Explosive first step and elite agility. Showed the talent to both run the arc, as well as set up tackles outside and work inside with speed.

I think he could be a very good career nickel rusher, in the vein of Mark Anderson.

State said:

No, I don't think Michael Buchanan will take a significant stride and burst onto the scene.

That's why I like another Bucannon, Deone, a SS from Washington State or DE Scott Crichton from Oregon State if we stay in the first. Both are underrated but are beginning to climb.

It's about beating the Broncos in Foxboro for the AFC Championship. Cover the receivers or get to the QB.

Crichton's family story and character are the stuff of movies. He's like the second coming of Mike Vrabel in more than size and non-stop motor--he gets it done.

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I don't think Crichton is a 1st round value. He's a little smallish for a defensive end in our system as far as his length and height. But I do like what I see on film. In particular his closing speed. He really shows the burst and ability to close out on QBs.

He's also an impact playmaker, causing a lot of fumbles. I think he intentionally goes for the strip and to have that kind of coordination and presence of mind to go specifically for the ball, well that's impressive to me.

I could see his name called somewhere in the 2nd to 3rd round. But he could slide as far as the 4th since, well there's just not a lot of hype around him and well, athletically he just doesn't stand out.

4.84 40, 1.62 10 yard split, 31.5 VJ, 9' Broad, 7.19 3 cone, 24 bench.

Scott Crichton Scouting Report: NFL Outlook for Oregon State Defensive End | Bleacher Report

I just binge-watched combine workout videos for a ton of DEs to get a comparative feel for how they move. A scattering of impressions, FWIW:


- Will Clarke is an imposing presence. Not an elite athlete, but moves with authority.

- Trent Murphy's measurables for explosiveness do indeed "lie." However, he has the very best balance and smoothest backpedal of any of them.

- Marcus Smith belongs at 3-4 LB, and could look very good there.

- Larry Webster's legs are too long for him to handle. Not sure that even makes sense, but there it is.

- There is something about that Terrence Fede, isn't there? A snippet of his pro day workout if you haven't seen it:
Nyack's Fede does footwork drills in pro day | Video Library | The Journal News | lohud.com

patchick said:

I just binge-watched combine workout videos for a ton of DEs to get a comparative feel for how they move. A scattering of impressions, FWIW:


- Will Clarke is an imposing presence. Not an elite athlete, but moves with authority.

- Trent Murphy's measurables for explosiveness do indeed "lie." However, he has the very best balance and smoothest backpedal of any of them.

- Marcus Smith belongs at 3-4 LB, and could look very good there.

- Larry Webster's legs are too long for him to handle. Not sure that even makes sense, but there it is.

- There is something about that Terrence Fede, isn't there? A snippet of his pro day workout if you haven't seen it:
Nyack's Fede does footwork drills in pro day | Video Library | The Journal News | lohud.com

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Good find on Fede. I still like him more than most of the likely draft picks at the position.

Posted about Marcus Thompson of Rutgers in the pro day thread. 6'2", 260 lb DE ran 4.57 at his pro day but more importantly had a 6.87 3-cone. Has to be a late round/UDFA possibility.

State said:

No, I don't think Michael Buchanan will take a significant stride and burst onto the scene.

That's why I like another Bucannon, Deone, a SS from Washington State or DE Scott Crichton from Oregon State if we stay in the first. Both are underrated but are beginning to climb.

It's about beating the Broncos in Foxboro for the AFC Championship. Cover the receivers or get to the QB.

Crichton's family story and character are the stuff of movies. He's like the second coming of Mike Vrabel in more than size and non-stop motor--he gets it done.

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We already have the second coming of Vrabel in Ninkovich!

I personally like both Ford and Ealy. Seems like BB likes to have guys with long arms play end (Jones, Buchanan) but Ninko doesn't have those traits either.

State said:

Crichton's family story and character are the stuff of movies. He's like the second coming of Mike Vrabel in more than size and non-stop motor--he gets it done.

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I won't argue with that, but where Crichton is NOT the second coming of Mike Vrabel is in agility and positional flexibility. He's a powerful guy who plays with great intensity, but he's rather stiff-hipped and at his best moving forward. Yet he doesn't have the length of a prototypical 4-3 DE, or the burst to get around NFL tackles.

I'm reminded a little of Brandon Graham.

Brady6 said:

I am a big fan of Kareem Martin; I think he will end up being the second best DE in this draft class. I also like Demarcus Ware who is an explosive player but more of a tweener.

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I think Demarcus Ware's career speaks for itself, but he's a Bronco now.

This is a difficult question to ponder, without knowing which way Belichick is going with the defense. I like Hubbard quite a bit, assuming we're staying in a 4-3 base. If so, Ford would seem to be overvalued in the late-first/early-second area, as would Marcus Smith a bit later.

If we're beginning a transition to a 3-4, than Smith looks pretty good in the second.

dryheat44 said:

I think Demarcus Ware's career speaks for itself, but he's a Bronco now.

This is a difficult question to ponder, without knowing which way Belichick is going with the defense. I like Hubbard quite a bit, assuming we're staying in a 4-3 base. If so, Ford would seem to be overvalued in the late-first/early-second area, as would Marcus Smith a bit later.

If we're beginning a transition to a 3-4, than Smith looks pretty good in the second.

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He meant Demarcus Lawrence.

I like Hubbard as a Nink type that could evolve into a better pass rush and he has good size and can still bulk up. Good 4th round value.

Smith's short area drill concern me on the next level. I'm not sure about him in space or coverage.

patchick said:

- There is something about that Terrence Fede, isn't there? A snippet of his pro day workout if you haven't seen it:
Nyack's Fede does footwork drills in pro day | Video Library | The Journal News | lohud.com

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I'm not sold on athletes working out in underwear... but at least we know he won't bite on the hard count. LOL. You know talking about Fede reminds me of another late round Patriot that ended up making an impact - Tully Banta Cain. If we could get that type of player in the 6th or 7th round I'd be pretty happy.

Just not super impressed with this year's draft class as far as pass rushers. I don't think there's a Chandler Jones out there who would last till the 20s.

VJCPatriot said:

I'm not sold on athletes working out in underwear

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Oh, I'm not kidding myself that it's football. But I really like watching a dozen guys at the same position run the exact same drills. You do learn a lot about them as athletes, especially when it comes to projecting them to roles you might not be able to seen in game clips.

Just not super impressed with this year's draft class as far as pass rushers. I don't think there's a Chandler Jones out there who would last till the 20s.

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Amen, brother.

VJCPatriot said:

I'm not sold on athletes working out in underwear... but at least we know he won't bite on the hard count. LOL. You know talking about Fede reminds me of another late round Patriot that ended up making an impact - Tully Banta Cain. If we could get that type of player in the 6th or 7th round I'd be pretty happy.

Just not super impressed with this year's draft class as far as pass rushers. I don't think there's a Chandler Jones out there who would last till the 20s.

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I think Dee Ford can be as productive as Chandler Jones. Whether he fits the Patriots like Chandler Jones did is another matter. But if they want a pass rusher pure and simple, he's the guy.

Kareem Martin is a great fit for the way the Patriots tend to play on the DL. Very good at setting the edge, doesn't sell out in the run game and can get pressure once he's checked off on his other responsibilities. I'm just not convinced that he's a guy you draft to be a pass rusher only.

I think this is where my thinking is heading on the DE spot:

We already have Buchanan who can play one position (backup DE) and nothing else. I don't really want another there. That's why I've tried looking for someone who is versatile enough to play two positions ie DE/DT or DE/OLB. Stephon Tuitt is a great fit for the DE/DT equation, and I don't just mean 5-tech DE but 4-3 too. My only concern is that he mirrors what Armstead provides. Question is, is it a bad thing to have two of those on the roster? However, at mid-second round value, I think it might be worth finding out. Luxusdk suggests Shazier-Tuitt with our first two picks. Sign me up for that versatility.

patchick said:

I just binge-watched combine workout videos for a ton of DEs to get a comparative feel for how they move. A scattering of impressions, FWIW:


- Will Clarke is an imposing presence. Not an elite athlete, but moves with authority.

- Trent Murphy's measurables for explosiveness do indeed "lie." However, he has the very best balance and smoothest backpedal of any of them.

- Marcus Smith belongs at 3-4 LB, and could look very good there.

- Larry Webster's legs are too long for him to handle. Not sure that even makes sense, but there it is.

- There is something about that Terrence Fede, isn't there? A snippet of his pro day workout if you haven't seen it:
Nyack's Fede does footwork drills in pro day | Video Library | The Journal News | lohud.com

Click to expand...

It actually makes a lot of sense. He's leggy and with long strides, its hard to get out of his stance and quickly.

The same thing could be said, albeit to a less drastic degree, about Trent Murphy. The first step looks good but there's a hitch as he gets out of his stance.

Its funny. People always talk about smaller edge rushers as potential "stand up" rushers and assume the bigger guys are the ones who are a better fit with their hand in the dirt. But it seems to me that's not always the case.

Aaron Donald and Dominique Easley are the 2 best pass rushers in this draft, therefore I try to get both of them if at all possible.

Easley has played anything from the 1 technique to the 9 technique. He can be used at LDE as an outside pass rusher and kicked inside on sub packages, or as part of a 5 man front. Easley and Donald with Wilfork/Siliga in the middle and Ninkovich/Jones outside would be devastating.

For more details see:

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england.../13/1097184-my-blueprint-defense-page92.html (post #918)

I personally think that adds much more effective pressure and schematic versatility than a guy like Dee Ford would provide.

what about Jackson Jeffcoat? he's a little undersized but could come in and be that 3rd rusher we are missing, he produced at Texas and put up a pretty good combine, especially the 3 cone.