idle thoughts - instant reaction

VrabelJr said:

Playoffs? Seriously? I'm not even making a Jim Mora reference. It's week one, let's not talk about the playoffs.

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Bill manages his team to have them improve over the course of the season and be at their best down the stretch... heading into the playoffs.

You may not want to think about it, but Bill certainly does.

shmessy said:

.....with 1:12 on the clock and your pass catchers being Thompkins, Boyce, Edelman, and Sudfeld.

You saw what the downside was: From a 10 point lead going into the lockerroom to not getting possession again until you are BEHIND by 3 points on the road. Let it ride!!!!!

Demo, you obviously believe in longshots. I admire your optimism and hopefulness.

BTW, I believe Tebow SHOULD get a shot with the Jaguars after yesterday's showing.

After all, THAT is a situation where a team has nothing to lose.

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Yet again you leave out Vereen out of the backfield.


Quoting Herm Edwards, you play the game TO WIN. You don't play "not to lose". You have the GOAT QB behind center and you have 1:11 seconds with the ball on the 25. You only need 40-45 yards to put another score on the board.

It's not that I believe in "long shots", rather, it's that I agree with both Josh and Bill that the thing to do in that situation is go get more points when they are available.

BTW, why the incessant need to bring Tebow into the discussion ? Do you think that my support of, and belief in Tebow somehow undermines the argument or calls my credibility into question ? If so, you are sorely mistaken.

Demosthenes said:

Yet again you leave out Vereen out of the backfield.


Quoting Herm Edwards, you play the game TO WIN. You don't play "not to lose". You have the GOAT QB behind center and you have 1:11 seconds with the ball on the 25. You only need 40-45 yards to put another score on the board.

It's not that I believe in "long shots", rather, it's that I agree with both Josh and Bill that the thing to do in that situation is go get more points when they are available.

BTW, why the incessant need to bring Tebow into the discussion ? Do you think that my support of, and belief in Tebow somehow undermines the argument or calls my credibility into question ? If so, you are sorely mistaken.

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tebow signed with the LA Kiss...just sayin.

shmessy said:

Bringing up Super 36 only makes the argument about situational context stronger.

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The best way to end 'momentum' is to get some of your own.

The situation was we had the ball, we had plenty of time outs and we had plenty of time and we have the best player in the league. You go for it every time you don't back down for fear of the mighty Buffalo Bills for Christ's sake.

There's this weird unspoken fear in your posts and I don't get it. Not as long as we have Tom as our QB, I'm gonna want to give him every solid opportunity we can.

1. If I've got 1st and 10 on my own 25 with 1:12 left in the half and three timeouts in my back pocket, I'm going for it (especially if my QB is named Tom Brady).

2. Likewise, 4th and goal from inside the one yard line, I'm going (unless it's the end of the game and I only need three to win).

3. Poor execution inevitably makes any strategic decision and any play call look bad.

fnordcircle said:

The best way to end 'momentum' is to get some of your own.

The situation was we had the ball, we had plenty of time outs and we had plenty of time and we have the best player in the league. You go for it every time you don't back down for fear of the mighty Buffalo Bills for Christ's sake.

There's this weird unspoken fear in your posts and I don't get it. Not as long as we have Tom as our QB, I'm gonna want to give him every solid opportunity we can.

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1) "The best way to end 'momentum' is to get some of your own."
Exactly!!!!

The Patriots were up 17-7 and had the momentum! Why in the world would you want to "end it"?
They should have tried to KEEP IT.

Instead, they (as you put it) "ended it". Thank goodness they were able to recover it in the 4th quarter.

2) You talk about Brady like the delusional DCers down here talk about RGIII - - as if the QB can take over a game like it is the NBA. The QB needs someone to CATCH the ball (unless he is RGIII and can sometimes run it). There are no Wilt Chamberlins or Michael Jordans in football.

Zeus said:

1. If I've got 1st and 10 on my own 25 with 1:12 left in the half and three timeouts in my back pocket, I'm going for it (especially if my QB is named Tom Brady).

2. Likewise, 4th and goal from inside the one yard line, I'm going (unless it's the end of the game and I only need three to win).

3. Poor execution inevitably makes any strategic decision and any play call look bad.

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I fully agree with #2 and #3.

Re #1, I would more likely do if Amendola and Gronkowski were on that field (unfortunately, all there was was Vereen and Edelman plus chopped liver - - that may be filet mignon by the end of the season, but it is chopped liver now). If the Pats were down and needed to change the momentum of the game then that would be a different story.

shmessy said:

I fully agree with #2 and #3.

Re #1, I would more likely do if Amendola and Gronkowski were on that field (unfortunately, all there was was Vereen and Edelman plus chopped liver - - that may be filet mignon by the end of the season, but it is chopped liver now). If the Pats were down and needed to change the momentum of the game then that would be a different story.

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And going through those situations is the best way to turn that liver into filet mignon.

It was the right thing to do.

Oswlek said:

And going through those situations is the best way to turn that liver into filet mignon.

It was the right thing to do.

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I tend to agree with this thinking also.

We all know that Belichick breathes and lives for situational football, and the only way to practice this is to actually go out and do it. It was a perfect time for a 2 min drill. Mostly b/c it was well....inside 2 minutes.

Yesterday's game was a glorified preseason game, and the preseason games are simply glorified practices. They are still learning and will continue to do so. Let's get through Thursday's game and go from there. Then we'll have a full 10 days to add to the chances of getting Gronk back, Amendola and others healthy, and some additional practice time.

If the score had been 24-7 or 27-7 at that point, then I could see the opposing viewpoint much better. At that point in time it was only a ten point game and BUF was getting the ball in the second half.

Something that no one mentioned was Ryan Allen's punting..

Now..he did make 6 punts. They were as follows:

34 yards from the Buf 44 yard line for a Fair Catch
19 yards from the Buf 47 yard line out of bounds. <----- Horrible
65 yards from the NE 27 yard line and downed.
26 yards from the Buf 37 yard line and downed.
35 yards from the NE 7 yard line out of bounds <----- Another bad punt
57 yards from the NE43 yard line into the end zone. Touch Back. Out kicked his coverage.. Net of 37..

So, the good news is that on 3 of the 6 punts, the coverage was excellent. On the 4th it would have been excellent as well, but Allen out-kicked them. This was a concern during pre-season.. The two shanks are a concern. I hope it doesn't continue, but it's not looking too promising.

DaBruinz said:

Something that no one mentioned was Ryan Allen's punting..

Now..he did make 6 punts. They were as follows:

34 yards from the Buf 44 yard line for a Fair Catch
19 yards from the Buf 47 yard line out of bounds. <----- Horrible
65 yards from the NE 27 yard line and downed.
26 yards from the Buf 37 yard line and downed.
35 yards from the NE 7 yard line out of bounds <----- Another bad punt
57 yards from the NE43 yard line into the end zone. Touch Back. Out kicked his coverage.. Net of 37..

So, the good news is that on 3 of the 6 punts, the coverage was excellent. On the 4th it would have been excellent as well, but Allen out-kicked them. This was a concern during pre-season.. The two shanks are a concern. I hope it doesn't continue, but it's not looking too promising.

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The positives were that he dug out a really bad snap on the 48 yd FG attempt, to allow Gostkowski to knuckleball it through the uprights. Obviously his holding was a concern for all of us, so that's a definite positive since those 3 pts ended up being the deciding factor even though the kick occurred earlier in the game.

Another important factor was the fact that Allen pinned BUF down inside their 20 on 3 of those 6 punts, something that you didn't seem to include on your analysis. Not only did he pin the Bills inside of their 20 which is the measuring stick for successful punts, he actually had 3/6 punts that were pinned inside of the ELEVEN yard line. One was on the 10, one was on the 8, and one was on the 11.

On the day, this CBS sportswriter gave Allen a "B" overall for his punting:

Tom Brady?s Offense In For Some Not-So-Smooth Sailing And Other Leftover Patriots Thoughts « CBS Boston

It also should be noted that Zoltan Mesko was drawing some very negative reviews for his day yesterday for the Steelers, some of the comments which were shared here on the messageboards in another thread. The Pittsburgh fans are not too happy with Mesko's abilities as of today.

All in all we can all understand your concerns for sure, but I think it was a pretty decent showing for a first NFL game. Hopefully he continues to improve as the season goes on.

supafly said:

The positives were that he dug out a really bad snap on the 48 yd FG attempt, to allow Gostkowski to knuckleball it through the uprights. Obviously his holding was a concern for all of us, so that's a definite positive since those 3 pts ended up being the deciding factor even though the kick occurred earlier in the game.

Another important factor was the fact that Allen pinned BUF down inside their 20 on 3 of those 6 punts, something that you didn't seem to include on your analysis. Not only did he pin the Bills inside of their 20 which is the measuring stick for successful punts, he actually had 3/6 punts that were pinned inside of the ELEVEN yard line. One was on the 10, one was on the 8, and one was on the 11.

On the day, this CBS sportswriter gave Allen a "B" overall for his punting:

Tom Brady?s Offense In For Some Not-So-Smooth Sailing And Other Leftover Patriots Thoughts « CBS Boston

It also should be noted that Zoltan Mesko was drawing some very negative reviews for his day yesterday for the Steelers, some of the comments which were shared here on the messageboards in another thread. The Pittsburgh fans are not too happy with Mesko's abilities as of today.

All in all we can all understand your concerns for sure, but I think it was a pretty decent showing for a first NFL game. Hopefully he continues to improve as the season goes on.

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Plus, it could be argued that Slater is actually responsible for the touchback, not Allen.

Oswlek said:

Plus, it could be argued that Slater is actually responsible for the touchback, not Allen.

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Wouldnt say "responsble' but I wouldnt give Allen a negative for the punt. he put it down inside the 10 with a CHANCE to be downed by the cover team. It bounced in. tough break; but it happens with those type of punts.

the other ones that he angled for the sidelines; he got dinged by the complainant for those as short punts as well; even if they were sideline inside the 20. (edit: so he can't win either way)

I take the 0 RETURNS as a good stat (although is a ST-team stat, not a punter stat). The 2 "shanks" are a concern as complainant stated; but i would remind that other punters when they "shank" sometimes dont get them across the line of scrimmage - or give up a returnable TD producing play. He still got positive NET.

DaBruinz said:

Something that no one mentioned was Ryan Allen's punting..

Now..he did make 6 punts. They were as follows:

34 yards from the Buf 44 yard line for a Fair Catch
19 yards from the Buf 47 yard line out of bounds. <----- Horrible
65 yards from the NE 27 yard line and downed.
26 yards from the Buf 37 yard line and downed.
35 yards from the NE 7 yard line out of bounds <----- Another bad punt
57 yards from the NE43 yard line into the end zone. Touch Back. Out kicked his coverage.. Net of 37..

So, the good news is that on 3 of the 6 punts, the coverage was excellent. On the 4th it would have been excellent as well, but Allen out-kicked them. This was a concern during pre-season.. The two shanks are a concern. I hope it doesn't continue, but it's not looking too promising.

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Oswlek said:

Plus, it could be argued that Slater is actually responsible for the touchback, not Allen.

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Yes, but it could be equally well argued that Goodwin was responsible for the 65 yard punt, not Allen.

The fact of the matter is that he punted well to a short field 2 out of 3 times, outkicked his coverage once, had a good punt made better by a lucky bounce, and shanked two. That's an inconsistent performance that he needs to improve upon.

pats4life12 said:

First off wow we should have killed them that game was way to close. The defence was ok for most of it. Second we need to hold onto the ball we can't be giving up turnovers. the defence I thought played ok but still the pass rush needs alot of work we are givien them way to much time. Amendola I thought played very well for his first game in a pats jersey, he had a few very nice catches. Even thought there was alot of ups and downs this game a win is a win.

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ever heard of punctuation? It helps the reader make sense of your response.

patfanken said:

OK, so here we go.

13. If I have a concern it would be the utter lack of an effective pass rush. I can only think of 2 or 3 occasions when Manuel even got hit. I also can't remember seeing any blitzing. I'm hoping that in the 2nd time around the Pats will be more prepared for the Bills offensive schemes

15. That being said, I have to say I was impressed with Manuel. He looked cool under pressure, took what was given, made good decisions and was fairly accurate. If I would a Bills fan I would be a lot more comfortable with my first round pick, and I'd feel good about my QB's future.

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So I just watched the game and in all honesty, it was a sloppy game all around. The defense was not bad but the Bill offense, heck the whole team, is pretty bad. The coaching was terrible.

Our offense was not good either. People slipping and sliding everywhere. Brady was under pressure all game long. And yes, I noticed what everyone else seems to have noticed to, the center head bob. Not a crisp offensive showing at all. I have visions of 2002 but who knows. It is a long year and things can change.