Hightower and Collins as down linemen

Last season we broke camp with 6 DE’s:

Jones
Ninkovich
Cunningham
Francis
Scott
Bequette

This season we’re set to break camp with 4 DE’s:

Jones
Ninkovich
Bequette
Buchanan

So that leads me to ask this question will we see Hightower and Collins playing as down linemen in passing situations. I think most of us assume Collins will be, but I am also inclined to believe Hightower will be as well, the thought even occurred to me right before I wrote this out that they could use Hightower in a role similar to what the Giants have done with Mathias Kiwanuka, either as a down lineman over the guard/center or as an odd LB standing over the guard/center.

Brady6 said:

Last season we broke camp with 6 DE’s:

Jones
Ninkovich
Cunningham
Francis
Scott
Bequette

This season we’re set to break camp with 4 DE’s:

Jones
Ninkovich
Bequette
Buchanan

So that leads me to ask this question will we see Hightower and Collins playing as down linemen in passing situations. I think most of us assume Collins will be, but I am also inclined to believe Hightower will be as well, the thought even occurred to me right before I wrote this out that they could use Hightower in a role similar to what the Giants have done with Mathias Kiwanuka, either as a down lineman over the guard/center or as an odd LB standing over the guard/center.

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Funny, I had that same thought about Hightower today. Of the two, I think Hightower is more likely to see action there. First, I could see Collins' athleticism being used in coverage. The coaches may want to ease him into various roles. Second, in one of his interviews during TC, BB mentioned how Hightower was having a good camp, seems to get it, and that he was being asked to do more things this year. Might this mean an expanded role as down lineman?

I certainly hope so. On both guys.

Brady6 said:

Last season we broke camp with 6 DE’s:

Jones
Ninkovich
Cunningham
Francis
Scott
Bequette

This season we’re set to break camp with 4 DE’s:

Jones
Ninkovich
Bequette
Buchanan

So that leads me to ask this question will we see Hightower and Collins playing as down linemen in passing situations. I think most of us assume Collins will be, but I am also inclined to believe Hightower will be as well, the thought even occurred to me right before I wrote this out that they could use Hightower in a role similar to what the Giants have done with Mathias Kiwanuka, either as a down lineman over the guard/center or as an odd LB standing over the guard/center.

Click to expand...

We never used more than 4 in any game.
I'm more concerned about the quality of #2,3 and 4 than the lack of a #5 or 6.
Not that its a drop off from last year, but I was hoping for an improvement.
Perhaps your idea may help that.

Re: Re: Hightower and Collins as down linemen

Lamanai said:

Funny, I had that same thought about Hightower today. Of the two, I think Hightower is more likely to see action there. First, I could see Collins' athleticism being used in coverage. The coaches may want to ease him into various roles. Second, in one of his interviews during TC, BB mentioned how Hightower was having a good camp, seems to get it, and that he was being asked to do more things this year. Might this mean an expanded role as down lineman?

Click to expand...

I agree completely, having Collins on the team actually frees up Hightower.

Re: Re: Hightower and Collins as down linemen

AndyJohnson said:

We never used more than 4 in any game.
I'm more concerned about the quality of #2,3 and 4 than the lack of a #5 or 6.
Not that its a drop off from last year, but I was hoping for an improvement.
Perhaps your idea may help that.

Click to expand...

Valid point on the roster depth not really being indicative of Hightower or Collins being used as down linemen, I am still hopeful that they will be, I think in the right situations they could be very effective.

I share your concern for #3 and #4, especially Bequette, let's just hope the talent they have on paper translates on the field.

Hate to poo on this parade but on twitter someone expressly asked one of the beat reporters whether Collins was getting time at DE and the answer was a resounding no.

Would like to see Hightower next to Jones though. That would be sweet.

Lamanai said:

Funny, I had that same thought about Hightower today. Of the two, I think Hightower is more likely to see action there. First, I could see Collins' athleticism being used in coverage. The coaches may want to ease him into various roles. Second, in one of his interviews during TC, BB mentioned how Hightower was having a good camp, seems to get it, and that he was being asked to do more things this year. Might this mean an expanded role as down lineman?

Click to expand...

I still envision Collins as the read-option spy, as well as in some coverage. I'd rather have him chasing Kaepernick or Wilson than Spikes, that's for sure.

I worry about the quality of #3 and #4, as well as a lock of a fifth (injury protection).

Will Buchanan and Bequette be as "effective" as Cunningham, Scott and Francis? We shall see. I'm not convinced.

I am worried about the lack of 5th. We need to withstand injuries.

We have a similar depth issue in the DT's. At least we had Cunningham taking sub DT reps.

So, sure it would help to see Hightower and/or Collins help out as needed.

AndyJohnson said:

We never used more than 4 in any game.
I'm more concerned about the quality of #2,3 and 4 than the lack of a #5 or 6.
Not that its a drop off from last year, but I was hoping for an improvement.
Perhaps your idea may help that.

Click to expand...

Did anyone sign Benard? Consider him on the virtual roster as he went through camp and is available to return a la Ross Ventrone.

If Benard is worth a roster spot, he should be signed. If not, we should move on and sign someone else.

micronin127 said:

Did anyone sign Benard? Consider him on the virtual roster as he went through camp and is available to return a la Ross Ventrone.

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Re: Re: Hightower and Collins as down linemen

DocHoliday said:

Hate to poo on this parade but on twitter someone expressly asked one of the beat reporters whether Collins was getting time at DE and the answer was a resounding no.

Would like to see Hightower next to Jones though. That would be sweet.

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I don't put a ton of stock in beat reporters or the media in general, there are posters in here who aren't even paid to know football who put together mock rosters that were closer to the current roster then the paid sports media, they don't impress me, most are to busy working their personal agenda's to pay attention to the team. Bedard was the exception to that and now he is gone.

mgteich said:

I worry about the quality of #3 and #4, as well as a lock of a fifth (injury protection).

Will Buchanan and Bequette be as "effective" as Cunningham, Scott and Francis? We shall see. I'm not convinced.

I am worried about the lack of 5th. We need to withstand injuries.

We have a similar depth issue in the DT's. At least we had Cunningham taking sub DT reps.

So, sure it would help to see Hightower and/or Collins help out as needed.

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Armond Armstead to the rescue!

Or maybe not!

Re: Re: Hightower and Collins as down linemen

ATippett56 said:

Armond Armstead to the rescue!

Or maybe not!

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A.J. Francis is a good pick up, he is actually one of the players I'm most excited to see this Sunday.

Brady6 said:

A.J. Francis is a good pick up, he is actually one of the players I'm most excited to see this Sunday.

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A.J. Francis was on the list at one time or another:

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...013-mock-draft-thread-page63.html#post3357439

Refer to post #623

2013 UDFAs (training camp fodder/potential 53 man roster sleepers)

I'll be curious to see their personnel grouping for this game assuming the Bills play predominantly with 3 WR, 1 TE and with a no huddle. You would think the Pats go nickel which would take Spikes off and maybe Ryan in and they would pretty much need to remain in that for a series until the Bills substitute.
They will certainly have assignment flexibility in their nickel but unless they are gassed or injured, I don't know about the extent of substitutions.

AndyJohnson said:

We never used more than 4 in any game.
I'm more concerned about the quality of #2,3 and 4 than the lack of a #5 or 6.
Not that its a drop off from last year, but I was hoping for an improvement.
Perhaps your idea may help that.

Click to expand...

It is definitely fair to question whether Bequette will finally get it and whether Buchanan will contribute in a meaningful way this year.

What I find most interesting about this is how the Patriots went about choosing their #3 and #4 DEs.

Ninkovich and Jones are every down players, meaning in sub or rush packages, the #3/4 DE will usually come on as an interior rusher (DT). Cunningham manned this spot to some success last year, and in preseason both Francis and Benard had played it. All three players are gone. Bequette and Buchanan, to my knowledge, haven't been tested in that position, which worries me a little. But one observation I've made is that in Training Camp, when these two came on, it was in a 3-4 alignment most of the time.

A situation to monitor, nonetheless. Depth will always be an issue on every team. It's so hard to have a rock solid depth chart #1-#5. The Giants are one of the few teams that do (on the DL anyway).

SacPete1 said:

I'll be curious to see their personnel grouping for this game assuming the Bills play predominantly with 3 WR, 1 TE and with a no huddle. You would think the Pats go nickel which would take Spikes off and maybe Ryan in and they would pretty much need to remain in that for a series until the Bills substitute.
They will certainly have assignment flexibility in their nickel but unless they are gassed or injured, I don't know about the extent of substitutions.

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I don’t anticipate the Bills will be running much no huddle; they’re starting a rookie QB in either Noel or Manuel. As far as 3 wide receiver sets I’m sure we will some but the Bills are likely to focus more on feeding Spiller and Jackson.

Good points. My prediction is based on what I've seen from Syracuse the last few years. I'll guess we'll see.

I'm an optimist and a "Believer in Bill". But I will admit I'm scared of our backup DT both being rookie UDFA and our backup DE being a second year player who was inactive almost all of last year and a rookie 7th round pick.

I got a twinge of nervousness just typing that.