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NFL investigating Saints for placing bounties on players(merged X2)


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Unfortunately, this is how the NFL is these days. When Brandon Merriweather came into the league, he actually tried to play the ball. But his last 2 years, he was basically head hunting out there at safety. I'm glad BB got rid of him. But the bigger point here is that the NFL has a great opportunity to make a statement to every defensive coach and player that head hunting is not the desired way to play the game. This is Goodell's big chance to change the game for the better. I hope he doesn't screw it up be being too lenient. I really hope there are severe punishments for coaches as well as players.

The media blowing the spygate thing out of proportion and the "commissioner's" overly severe punishment really rubbed BB the wrong way. He didn't care how people spoke about him and was determined to prove a point. BB declared war on the league that year and almost won. If the Pats had won the SB in 2007, spygate would be remembered differently.
 
Heh -- Longtime Patriots fans have been there, done that. Often.

Well I am a longtime fan too but even in 1990s I held out hope in March that Mark Wilson or Scott Zolak could take us all the way :rofl:

But IMO the Saints have little to no chance to avoid the huge distraction that is about to enter their 2012 season....they are cooked.
 
Maybe someone can enlighten me here but if I was making these players' money, I don't think a little 10k would motivate me..

Athletes are very competitive types. It's more about getting the $10k (or $1.5k or $1k) from your peers, and in any case, that amount of cash still pays for more than a few jollies. Chances are good that the money gets blown at a dinner or a party with the rest of the wolfpack.

I also read that Manning said Daniels wouldn't let go of his head, which, yeah. That tips it for me.

Me too. You can see in the film how he pretty much twists the helmet off Manning's head, and almost takes the head with it.

I've already read reports of just about every team, including the Pats, having pools for "first interception, fumble recovery," etc.

That's where the slippery part is.

The national media strategy is clear...tie THIS N.O. story to "Spygate!!!",beat the dead horse into a blood stained blotch on the pavement, and revel in the lust of repeated attacks on both organizations with sanctimonious "suggestions" for sanctions.

To me, there are some similarities:

a) It's something done by many teams many times over the years

b) There was a specific league memo telling teams to not do these things

c) Item (b) is because of item (a), meaning it is going on all over the place

d) Eventually one team will be caught

e) The media will aim the sh*tstorm at the one team who got caught whereas it really should be going everywhere else too

f) The best behavior for that one team is to admit what is already known and take your punishment like a man

The Pats broke rules that were already being broken by everyone else that had zero impact on a game and the situation was completely blown out of proportion by a commissioner who was PO'd that BB did not acquiesce to his Draconian approach to running the league. Another team broke rules that were already being broken with the sole intent of maiming players with the desired outcome in gaining an in-game competitive advantage.

It's not logical to assume sideline filming has zero impact on a game. If that were so, Belichick would be a fool to waste time doing it, and he's no fool. Belichick's defense wasn't that, it was that he thought it was legal, despite the 2006 memo.

So IMHO the action did have SOME impact, BUT indeed it was totally blown out of proportion.

Given that he blew that out of proportion, the commish has no choice but drop the hammer on the Saints too.

The $500k fine on Belichick is the largest allowed by NFL rules. I think Loomis and Williams should be expecting the same.
 
The Patriots took pictures from the wrong spot in the stadium. The Saints were doing things that could have destroyed careers and interfered with the quality of life of fellow players. Their Super Bowl title may be a product of deliberately injuring the opposing quarterback in a playoff game.

I know what the Pats did, and I don't think we need to rehash how overblown it was, but I'm not going to far as to say the Saints won the Super Bowl because they put bounties on other players. It seems a non-sequitur to me.

I'm not sure why this is supposed to be about protecting the Saints fan base.

Who said that? All I said was that I don't get the gloating. It's not like Saints fans are *******s who rubbed our face in Spygate or cheered when TFB went down.

It should be about dealing with those responsible for this, and that allegedly goes all the way from players to coach to GM and, to an extent, to the owner. That's essentially the entire organization.

What did I say that disagrees with this point? I think you should read my post again if you felt the need to type all this.
 
It's not logical to assume sideline filming has zero impact on a game.

So IMHO the action did have SOME impact...

It did have zero impact on the games, because even Matt Walsh stated that he had possession of the tapes until after the games were over. It's amazing how little play that nugget got on ESPN.

The sideline taping is for future film work, just like taping from anywhere else that's "legal."
 
I can't even believe what I am hearing. Your damn right we tried to hit Farve, Warner and the rest. Our defense was suppose to put them on their ass and not care about what injuries the QB or players got because of it. Their is not a defense in the NFL that does not do the same, we are no different than NE.
If the Patriots defense could have clocked Manning, they would have more than happy to do so, and the fans would have supported it. This is not a very good depiction of what happened.

You're better than that, pherein...
 
They'll lose a first round pick at the very least, and I would suspect there are going to be some long-term suspensions and hefty fines coming out of this. This is pretty serious stuff.
 
Eh, no you're wrong. The saints didn't exploit it at all, the locals saw the team coming back as somewhat of a rebirth for the city, a sign that things were normal again. As is common with people they rallied behind something to make themselves feel better. Now the NFL, you could say they exploited it to a large degree with the tv coverage in 2006.

yada yada yada...I don't care how it happened to come about, so I'll take your word for it...

...but, you show me one gauzy, "feel good" Katrina-related, Network video segment gushing over the Saints and the Bensons that the team turned down and I'll agree with you that they didn't exploit the opportunity.
 
All I have to say is we were warned by NE fans what would happen if we ever became a good team. They said we would be put under a microscope by the media. We are really not surprised NE was right.

And way better than that.

The scrutiny that befalls a winner may be harsher than that of a loser, but it doesn't mitigate the fact that your team made a mistake. Just like ours did. But the one yours made had the potential to facilitate career altering or ending injuries. Those happen in this game at times regardless because of the nature of it. But it is never supposed to be the even the unspoken intent of an opponent to set out to injure, let alone the spoken intent to reward what is essentially illegal behavior.

We all get that player performance pools exist. It is to some extent the nature of the beast. They are in violation of the rules, just like speeding and dui and dog fighting. Yet some people will continue to engage in them. There is an old saying, just because you got away with something doesn't make it right. Everyone will never get caught, so when a high profile individual does authorities usually make an example of them in hopes it will create a deterrant.

The Saints are up, and it would appear deservedly so because this violation goes well beyond players incentivizing exceptional play amongst themselves. This is about management encouraging them to and participating in the process and then perverting it into something a lot more dangerous for everyone that undermines the integrity of the game.

Our HC violated a rule for which we were severely punished. In that case the argument could be made that it was a new rule and there was some ambiguity as to it's actual meaning. In fact we were punished as much for what we could have done with that video as what we actually did do with it, because others were apparently continuing to violate the rule as well and possibly making use of video in game. But they didn't get caught, we did. The punishment therefore didn't appear to fit the crime, but we were made an example of.

The same thing is going to happen to you, only it would appear based on longstanding and unambiguous rules and Mr. Williams persistent involvement and that of other coaches and uper management's knowledge of the violation and refusal to take action for at least a year after being instructed to by the league and the team owner, the punishment will likely fit the crime this time.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Payton gone in the forseeable future, too. He's always had an ego and it may be his undoing. This comes on the heels of the whole drug scandal he was also knee deep in, and while Benson likely has a NO sensibility about certain levels of misbehavior, he's got to be pretty disappointed in the guys he trusted to run his franchise better than that.

This may also cost him at the negotiation table as he will need a clean face of the franchise as much as he ever did now. Although I'm sure that face was also well aware of what was going on and I wouldn't be surprised if his agent wasn't involved in pushing the league to reopen the investigation for leverage purposes...
 
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To me, there are some similarities:

a) It's something done by many teams many times over the years

b) There was a specific league memo telling teams to not do these things

c) Item (b) is because of item (a), meaning it is going on all over the place

d) Eventually one team will be caught

e) The media will aim the sh*tstorm at the one team who got caught whereas it really should be going everywhere else too

f) The best behavior for that one team is to admit what is already known and take your punishment like a man

Good points; well done. Part of me wishes Belichick had been more forthcoming about what exactly happened — I'm sure the comparison will be made with the full-out apology by Williams — but I also feel like he wasn't allowed by Goodell to tell his side of the story so he stayed silent.


It's not logical to assume sideline filming has zero impact on a game. If that were so, Belichick would be a fool to waste time doing it, and he's no fool. Belichick's defense wasn't that, it was that he thought it was legal, despite the 2006 memo.

I agree you can't say it had zero impact on the game. Of course it did. But the question is: did it give an unfair advantage over other teams? I think not. And yes, my understanding is BB did think it was legal because he thought the rule applied to using the video for the game in progress.
 
So Gibbs is saying he knew nothing of the bounties in DC. I'm going to call BS on that one and actually I think it furthers my spy gate theory that coaches will keep their mouths shut about what goes on behind the scenes but players when they are involved are less likely to do so.
 
It did have zero impact on the games, because even Matt Walsh stated that he had possession of the tapes until after the games were over. It's amazing how little play that nugget got on ESPN.

The sideline taping is for future film work, just like taping from anywhere else that's "legal."

It did have zero impact on the current game, but clearly it was done to have non-zero impact on other games, in a way that league rules disallowed.

The Pats got caught in the act and were made an example of, just like what's going to happen with the Saints.

It ain't pretty, but as we've heard here countless times, "it is what it is".
 
It did have zero impact on the current game, but clearly it was done to have non-zero impact on other games, in a way that league rules disallowed.

No. It had no more impact than any other taping. The Pats got pinched because they violated a memo about where the camera could be, not what was being taped.

And the non-followup to Mangini getting caught taping from the end zone (violating the same memo) showed that rule is a joke.
 
It's not logical to assume sideline filming has zero impact on a game. If that were so, Belichick would be a fool to waste time doing it, and he's no fool. Belichick's defense wasn't that, it was that he thought it was legal, despite the 2006 memo.

So IMHO the action did have SOME impact, BUT indeed it was totally blown out of proportion.

Given that he blew that out of proportion, the commish has no choice but drop the hammer on the Saints too.

The $500k fine on Belichick is the largest allowed by NFL rules. I think Loomis and Williams should be expecting the same.

Point taken. I meant to say that actions with intent to injure an impact player with the intent to gain a competitive advantage has a much more sinister intent to it.

Sounds like a good storyline for a movie....:D
 

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Schefter on NFL Live: "In week of the NFCCG, Jonathan Vilma put $10K on a table & said 'this goes to the guy that knocks out Brett Favre.'"

My HERO!!! :rocker: :rocker: :rocker:

I was gonna say FOUR consecutive 1st Rounders, but let's say THREE!! :D
 
No. It had no more impact than any other taping. The Pats got pinched because they violated a memo about where the camera could be, not what was being taped.

And the non-followup to Mangini getting caught taping from the end zone (violating the same memo) showed that rule is a joke.

I remember when this thing with Mangini and the Jets went down. If I recall correctly, Mangini's excuse was that the Patriots gave the Jets permission to have the camera located in the endzone area. That alone proves how bogus the whole spygate thing was. As we all learned from spygate, this was a supposed NFL rule, so how could the Pats give another team permission to break it? Shouldnt the Jets have gone to the NFL to ask permission and not the Pats? I give a ton of credit to the Kraft family for showing their restraint over the past few years since spygate. So many things have happened in the NFL which I think clearly shows that Pats were very harshly singled out by Gooddell cause he was trying to make a name for himself as the new commissioner. The Jets have been caught twice breaking the same rule the Pats have. The 49ers were caught tampering with a free agent and got a slap on the wrist.
 
I can't imagine the horror of being a fan on a team that is all but eliminated from consideration of a SB Title for the 2012/13 season in Early March!

At this point,there is no way IMO that this will not destroy the Saints chances this upcoming season....The Colts or Browns have a Better chance to win it all before the Saints do...I don't care what type of offense they have,this team will not recover anytime soon from this debacle.

This team is not the Patriots on a revenge tour like in 2007....this is their own doing within.

Could they possibly field the worst defense the league has ever seen if say, every defensive player involved in it is suspended for 4 games? They would be fielding rookies and UDFAs.

Vilma should get a year suspension.
 
It's not logical to assume sideline filming has zero impact on a game. If that were so, Belichick would be a fool to waste time doing it, and he's no fool. Belichick's defense wasn't that, it was that he thought it was legal, despite the 2006 memo.
It was legal to film defensive signals. The only violation was the spot it was done from. It is ILLOGICAL to assume filming the same thing from a different spot, has any impact on a game.

So IMHO the action did have SOME impact, BUT indeed it was totally blown out of proportion.
Again, it clearly had none.
 
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