Eli over Brady?

Brady has more pressure in this superbowl then Eli does.Eli is already 1-0 against TB in the superbowl.Brady is coming off a second half in which he sucked, which he admitted.He has to play much better in the superbowl.

LivinLovin&Breathin_Brady said:

Yes, getting your team in FG range is putting your team in position to win, right? He could've just thrown something in the air and hoped one of his WRs by luck would catch it, but Brady's was much more smarter than that.

I only mentioned Brady was more clutch in his SBs than Eli was in his SB. Not Brady was greater because he won more SBs. Excluding the rings Brady is light years ahead of Manning.

Manning only get half the love he gets because he's Peyton's brother. I guess that's as close to GREAT he's ever gonna get.

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while I agree that getting ur team in scoring position to win IS clutch, I have hard time if ur going to compare that to what Eli did vs u guys in 07. Im sorry but escaping the way he did, making the throw he did, and scoring a TD to take the lead is much more impressive...

i guess we just have fundamental differences in whats more impressive.

I'd be against putting Eli Manning in the Hall of Fame before a guy like Ken Stabler, or even Ken Anderson, for that matter.

meyerbudNYG said:

so in reality - what makes Tom Brady so great then?

Its not wins, its not rings(cuz thats a team thing), and yards isn't that big of a thing, its only TD to INT ratio? Is that what defines THomas?

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D-Money said:

Brady has more pressure in this superbowl then Eli does.Eli is already 1-0 against TB in the superbowl.Brady is coming off a second half in which he sucked, which he admitted.He has to play much better in the superbowl.

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Going from passing against Ed Reed, Lardarrius Webb and Jimmy smith to Antrel Rolle and Aaron ross... yeah so much pressure on Brady. I'd also say Haloti Ngata is better than anybody on the Giants D line, so the pressure is more on the D stopping Manning. Brady will pass against the Giants with ease, this isn't the Michael Strahan Giants here...

meyerbudNYG said:

I don't thin khes paved his way to canton yet either. Its just a football discussion.

But i do think two rings iwll put him over the top

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Well, I don't know the criteria and the stats of the members already, so you could well be correct.

However, no one will argue that Tom Brady is a mortal lock. And here we are discussing the absurd notion that Eli is better?

People are ridiculous. Brady was hands down better in the regular season, and put up an all time great performance in the divisional round. Eli had an exceptional game as well, but it was not as good as Brady's. Yeah, Packers >> Broncos, but their pass defenses are pretty similar, and neither offense could stay on the field.

In the conference championships, neither was lights out. However, the Patriots scored more points, and the only statistics where Eli was better than Brady were TD's and interceptions. Well, Eli threw two surefire picks which were, while Brady had two picks on incredible athletic plays. In the red zone, the Pats ran it in (once with Brady), so the TD count isn't really a knock on him either.

To really show the difference in production, though, look at points per drive. The Patriots scored 23 points in 11 drives, good for just over 2 points per drive. The Giants, however scored only 20 points on a whopping 17 drives, for around 1.2 points per drive. Eli also wasn't exactly heroic in the fourth quarter. Out of 12 offensive drives in the second half/OT, The Giants had 10 drives that started on their side of the field. These drives netted a grand total of 0 points. They only times they scored where the two times they got the ball in field goal range.

Call me crazy, but I'm taking Brady, 20 days a week.

Eli is a better clutch QB then his brother is.He already has surpassed him in that.

meyerbudNYG said:

while I agree that getting ur team in scoring position to win IS clutch, I have hard time if ur going to compare that to what Eli did vs u guys in 07. Im sorry but escaping the way he did, making the throw he did, and scoring a TD to take the lead is much more impressive...

i guess we just have fundamental differences in whats more impressive.

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Eli threw two balls in the chest/hands of Patriot defenders on that drive. Then he had to count on a miracle helmet catch to extend the drive. Manning made plays to win that SuperBowl, but everything that could break his way, did.

Also, Brady led the Patriots to FGs at the end of games because a FG was enough to win the game. Had he needed a TD, who knows how it would have unfolded. It's not like they were driving for a touchdown and Brady couldn't get the offense moving and they had to settle for a FG on 4th down. Brady also got the ball back with 1:21 left to go and no timeouts against the Rams and with 1:08 against the Panthers. Eli had more than 2 minutes to drive down the field and score a TD, that's more than enough time.

Re: Qb

Deus Irae said:

Because you were arguing the "winning in the postseason" angle. Dilfer's got a better win percentage in the postseason than Eli. Using your angle, Dilfer > Eli. It's an example that destroys your argument.



It is nonsense. As I've pointed out elsewhere, Eli had as many games with a sub 80 QB rating as Brady had games with a sub 100 QB rating. Also, to point to Eli as carrying the whole team is absurd. The Giants have 12 wins this season. In 9 of those 12 wins, INCLUDING ALL 3 PLAYOFF GAMES, the Giants have allowed 20 points or fewer.



I never said the Giants offense sucked, or denigrated it at all, so this is a non-issue.



If you dropped any of the 7 games, you don't get in. That's nice, and all, but it's irrelevant, as I've already demonstrated.

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before i even respond to the first part, heres Rivers numbers:

Philip Rivers Playoffs Game Log - Pro-Football-Reference.com

u take a peek at them and then let me know if u want to continue down this road of post season performance.

Dilfer was in the playoffs 1 year on a team that was led by the defense. Your argument on this matter is a reach.

Last time I checked as well, Detroit had a head and shoulders better defense than us this year, no?

And QB Rating is dependent on interceptions as well... so lets get to the base of your whole argument. You find the interceptions as the reason you take issue with Eli and his numbers, which is laughable.

You don't take into account the styles of offense either? I mean your just so fixated on a single number and don't take into account anything else and try to fight arguments.

No its not relevent seeing as how Eli got us those wins. Any person that followed and watched the Giants this year know that we are only this far because of Eli

meyerbudNYG said:

so in reality - what makes Tom Brady so great then?

Its not wins, its not rings(cuz thats a team thing), and yards isn't that big of a thing, its only TD to INT ratio? Is that what defines THomas?

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As with most things in football, as opposed to the more individualized team sport of baseball, it's a matter of putting as much data together as possible. For example, and without even getting into all the specific numbers:

Brady - 3 of the very best seasons in NFL history (2007, 2010, 2011)
Brady - 3 Super Bowl victories (could be 4 two weeks from now)
Brady - 4 Super Bowl appearances (will be 5 two weeks from now)
Brady - Best winning percentage of any QB to play 100 games
Brady - Multiple time MVP
Brady - First unanimous MVP in history
Brady - #4 career passer rating in NFL history
Brady - #2 active, #6 all-time in game winning drives
Brady - #2 active, #3 all time in INT%
Brady - #3 active, #23 career all time in TD%
Brady - 7 time Pro Bowler
Brady - Top 5 All time in wins by a QB
Brady - #2 all time playoff winning percentage of any QB with 10+ playoff starts
Brady - #1 active, #43 all time in playoff games started by a player (not just QB)


Seems pretty clear here.

I can't remember who said this but it certainly struck a chord when I heard it.

"Football fans fall in love with their QBs when they win a big game" ...(and it's hard to see the pimples when one is in love). The parentheses are mine as I can't remember how they completed the sentence. It was said about Mark Sanchez and attempted to explain why Jets fans were so adamant that he was the franchise and soon to become elite.

I think this is true of all teams with good QB's which is why it doesn't make sense to come on to another team's board, and one with one of the great QBs, and claim that their team's QB is elite and better in a winner takes all competition. It's not dissimilar to two guys who have just got engaged to attractive girls trying to convince one another that they have the prettier fiancee.

Please take off those glasses. Eli has improved greatly this season, and I will be the first to admit it. I had him ranked outside the top 10 QB at the beginning of the year and he has earned his rise to top 6 (and neck and neck with Rivers). His pocket presence is the area of greatest improvement and he does stand taller in the pocket when delivering the ball. I give him huge kudos to his resilience from the NFCG hammering he got from the 49's defense, the guy is a fighter and that is very admirable. However he is still shy of the level of PM, TB ,AR and DB in two key areas. Accuracy and leadership. He has improved the former, but he is still putting balls out there that are easily intercepted (the stats don't lie). While others put some of his completions down to luck, I would put them more on slight inaccuracy coupled with amazing agility and prestidigitation by his receivers. He can throw a tight spiral down field from time to time, but he has more wobblers than an 'elite' QB should have. Peyton may lack some of his fortitude but he is by far the better leader, who shouts, cajoles and takes over the offense. I haven't seen his brother do that. Too many times (and it happened this weekend in SF) his body language has been neutral or negative, which is what some more objective observers see in his demeanor, and why they question whether he is elite or not.

Eli is very good and had a great season so far, but this board has a 11 year love affair with a legend, and comparing them is futile and an argument that can never be won with logic. That may be done when both have retired and their records are complete, so please wait until then before firing another salvo of my-qb-adulation.

NSPF said:

People are ridiculous. Brady was hands down better in the regular season, and put up an all time great performance in the divisional round. Eli had an exceptional game as well, but it was not as good as Brady's. Yeah, Packers >> Broncos, but their pass defenses are pretty similar, and neither offense could stay on the field.

In the conference championships, neither was lights out. However, the Patriots scored more points, and the only statistics where Eli was better than Brady were TD's and interceptions. Well, Eli threw two surefire picks which were, while Brady had two picks on incredible athletic plays. In the red zone, the Pats ran it in (once with Brady), so the TD count isn't really a knock on him either.

To really show the difference in production, though, look at points per drive. The Patriots scored 23 points in 11 drives, good for just over 2 points per drive. The Giants, however scored only 20 points on a whopping 17 drives, for around 1.2 points per drive. Eli also wasn't exactly heroic in the fourth quarter. Out of 12 offensive drives in the second half/OT, The Giants had 10 drives that started on their side of the field. These drives netted a grand total of 0 points. They only times they scored where the two times they got the ball in field goal range.

Call me crazy, but I'm taking Brady, 20 days a week.

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Should also be noted that the Giants scored their last 10 points of the game off of turnovers that had them start their drives deep into 49ers territory.

PatriotSeven said:

Actually the Broncos use to own the Pats, and Brady fixed that definitively this year since they had a perfect record against Brady. He's unlikely to ever break even against them, but I think the wins over them this year were very definitive. Then came the Ravens, and tortured them in the same fashion by beating them with a worse NFL QB passer rating like they did. So now all that's left is...Giants.

Then Brady could actually retire in peace if he wanted to.

And if I remember correctly Brady did have to deal with some egg on his face because he laughed when everyone said you'd keep the Patriots to 17 points. It's time for him to make good on his promise and blow the Super Bowl out like he wanted the first time 44-30.

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so again - u didn't answer my question. By your original logic, which suggests that you would of defintily beat the Steelers because u always beat them in the AFCC that the Giants are going to win the superbowl - no?

meyerbudNYG said:

howdo u own them? your 1-2 in ur last 3 vs them and u lost this year?

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Brady is 2-1 against Pitt in last 3 games.

Re: Qb

meyerbudNYG said:

before i even respond to the first part, heres Rivers numbers:

Philip Rivers Playoffs Game Log - Pro-Football-Reference.com

u take a peek at them and then let me know if u want to continue down this road of post season performance.

Dilfer was in the playoffs 1 year on a team that was led by the defense. Your argument on this matter is a reach.

Last time I checked as well, Detroit had a head and shoulders better defense than us this year, no?

And QB Rating is dependent on interceptions as well... so lets get to the base of your whole argument. You find the interceptions as the reason you take issue with Eli and his numbers, which is laughable.

You don't take into account the styles of offense either? I mean your just so fixated on a single number and don't take into account anything else and try to fight arguments.

No its not relevent seeing as how Eli got us those wins. Any person that followed and watched the Giants this year know that we are only this far because of Eli

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I know the numbers. Your arguments have all been poor and disproved or negated. Unless you can find something better, I suggest you go back to the kiddie pool. This is for the adults.

Re: Qb

meyerbudNYG said:

before i even respond to the first part, heres Rivers numbers:

Philip Rivers Playoffs Game Log - Pro-Football-Reference.com

u take a peek at them and then let me know if u want to continue down this road of post season performance.

Dilfer was in the playoffs 1 year on a team that was led by the defense. Your argument on this matter is a reach.

Last time I checked as well, Detroit had a head and shoulders better defense than us this year, no?

And QB Rating is dependent on interceptions as well... so lets get to the base of your whole argument. You find the interceptions as the reason you take issue with Eli and his numbers, which is laughable.

You don't take into account the styles of offense either? I mean your just so fixated on a single number and don't take into account anything else and try to fight arguments.

No its not relevent seeing as how Eli got us those wins. Any person that followed and watched the Giants this year know that we are only this far because of Eli

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Detroit's defense was MUCH worse than the patriots, I mean how can you say your defense is good after letting a benchwarmer(matt flynn) pass almost 500 on you? Also any real Giants fan knows it's not just Eli but it was the defense's improvement and the emergence of Victor cruz that got them this far. Seriously, Eli is not that great... he can be throwing a pick anytime, and got lucky he didn't against the 9ers too

ProudestRyno said:

Brady is 2-1 against Pitt in last 3 games.

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and impressive 6-2 all time now

Fixit said:

So you admit he's not presently putting up HOF numbers.

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I actually made that quite clear that his early years have hurt his averages and that 2nd superbowl ring would put him over the top....

I would say thats impossible to really say. I mean how many more years, does he play, how many more playoff games?, whats his stats like?

I would say that if he continues to play the way he has the past 3 years that he will be borderline. IF he plays better, hes probably in. IF he wins a 2nd ring, hes def in. If he wins a 3rd ring - then Brady comparisons become real

meyerbudNYG said:

i was referencing the 2006 playoff in response to your knocks on Eli's other playoff performances except for 07 and this year. And also to use the same logic u applied to why Rivers isn't over hyped. It was a double whammy

u decided to break something down that was ridiculous. When people think of 2000 Ravens, nobody thinks of what TRENT DILFER did to get them to the big game, it was what the defense did. Nobody is going to loo kat this Giants season and not completely put the success on Eli. Our defense COMPLETELY let us down this year. Eli took us on his back bottom line

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To a magical 8-8 record while waiting for the defense to make it back so they could back into the playoffs and THEN start doing well..

Hahaha.

meyerbudNYG said:

so again - u didn't answer my question. By your original logic, which suggests that you would of defintily beat the Steelers because u always beat them in the AFCC that the Giants are going to win the superbowl - no?

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Explain to me how the Giants 'always' beat the Patriots when Brady is 2-2 against them is his career. Those two teams don't even face each other enough to determine if one 'owns' another, and their head to head record is tied in the last decade. Drop this argument because it's unbelievably stupid.