Which guy returning to Gillette are you missing more? Crennel or Pioli?

Which former Patriot who played a role in Super Bowl championships and returns to Gillette Monday night on the other side,are you missing more?

Scott Pioli or Romeo Crennel?

Definitely RAC.

Some think Pioli helped out Belichick in getting talent out of the draft and in making FA decisions

Some think Romeo would still get this defense in the upper echelon than where they are now

It's really tough for me to pick either over the other

I voted for RAC. Man, I miss him.

If you think the drafting would improve with Pioli, I have two points:
1) Chad
2) Jackson



OK seriously, if he was magically back then Bill is still the end all draft guy. I'm not saying BB is great at it, just saying BB can veto Pioli.

He could veto Crennel too, but if results of, say, LB coaching are good, will he?

lurker1965 said:

If you think the drafting would improve with Pioli, I have two points:
1) Chad
2) Jackson



OK seriously, if he was magically back then Bill is still the end all draft guy. I'm not saying BB is great at it, just saying BB can veto Pioli.

He could veto Crennel too, but if results of, say, LB coaching are good, will he?

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I think Bill and Scott worked great together...I do think Pioli did help in the glory years of picking perfect Patriots to do the job and getting Bill to agree,but I also think he made bad decisions as well especially after 2004.

Both were products of their time and I doubt either would fit in now. Everyone has moved on and there's no turning back the clock.

reflexblue said:

Did you forget Charlie Weiss?

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Uh.......Weis isn't in Kansas anymore Dorothy

PATRIOTSFANINPA said:

Uh.......Weis isn't in Kansas anymore Dorothy

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Thanx for pointing that out Todo

NinjaZX6R said:

I voted for RAC. Man, I miss him.

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This. Great guy, great coach.

sly24 said:

This. Great guy, great coach.

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As a DC certainly, but as far as a HC,the Browns don't agree

I voted Romeo. It seems we still sign a bunch of no-names on D like we did when Pioli was here, but the D was dominant when Romeo was here, no matter who was playing. Looks like he is bringing his brand of success to KC. Hopefully, unlike Andy Reid, BB and TFB have changed their signals/formations/plays since Romeo was in town.

reflexblue said:

Thanx for pointing that out Todo

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It's Toto, Dodo

Neither 10char

Neither, Pioli was here untill 2008 and did notting to replace the core of ageing defensive players from the SB years... after Samuel with CB did he Draft that was even half as good as Ty Law or with pass rusher did he ever pick up ?

as for Crennel he coached some of the most talented defenses in pats history im pretty sure the defense would not be any better with him at DC

PATRIOTSFANINPA said:

Uh.......Weis isn't in Kansas anymore Dorothy

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Pioli and RAC are not in Kansas either, Scarecrow...they are in Kansas City, MO

patsfan-1982 said:

Neither, Pioli was here untill 2008 and did notting to replace the core of ageing defensive players from the SB years... after Samuel with CB did he Draft that was even half as good as Ty Law or with pass rusher did he ever pick up ?

as for Crennel he coached some of the most talented defenses in pats history im pretty sure the defense would not be any better with him at DC

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Agree 100%. RAC might have a little more value because he can make game-day adjustments but back in the day the sheer talent that he had at his disposal was incredible. Pioli did a nice job but I think BB/Caserio/Reese have done ok too

And if people want evidence of what a Pats/RAC defense looks like with holes, take a long look at 2002.

Points allowed Per Game: 21.6- #17
Yards Per Play: 5.2- #19
Yards Per Carry: 4.7- #29
Yards Allowed: 22nd
Sacks: 34 - 20th
INTs: 18- 20th

Many vivid memories of that year. It was a team that could not stop the run, didn't make a lot of big plays and couldn't get to the passer. They were not strong up the middle at all. Thus the next year the team adds:

Ted Washington
Ty Warren
Rodney Harrison
Ty Poole
Rosy Colvin
Asante Samuel
Geno Wilson

Does Pioli deserve some credit in bringing that bumper crop of talent to Foxboro in 2003? Sure. Does RAC deserve some credit molding that defense into the leagues best in 2003? Sure.

With that said, I can't pick either one....

PATRIOTSFANINPA said:

Which former Patriot who played a role in Super Bowl championships and returns to Gillette Monday night on the other side,are you missing more?

Scott Pioli or Romeo Crennel?

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Definitely Crennel.....our defenses have been awful since he left. I don't think we ever went for it on 4th and 2 from our own 20 because we had NO FAITH in our defense during RAC'S tenure...

The last few drafts with Pioli on board were some of the worst drafts in NFL history.

2006: Got an above average kicker out of it and that was it.
2007: No one from the draft is still on the team.
2008: Jerod Mayo. The end.

We really could have used Crennel over the years, though. Dean Pees was never DC material.

BaltimorePatsFan said:

Dean Pees was never DC material.

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The team's statitical ranking in the catagory that matters does not prove your point.

Scoring Defense in the 4 years BB/Pees was DC.
2006: 2nd
2007: 4th
2008: 8th
2009: 5th

Scoring Defense Under BB/Patricia
2010: 8th
2011: 17th

Bottom line is that BB has final say over the architecture of the defense's scheme, player personnel and game day adjustments (as stated in his presser this past week). Did he give more latitude to RAC on the game plan than Pees? Maybe. Is RAC a better game day DC than Pees? Maybe, but we don't know that for sure. What we do know is that from 2006-2009, the defense was going through significant talent drain and overall change. That was a dynamic RAC never experienced here.

At the end of the day, I think BB thought that Pees was a decent DC and overall did a good job. The numbers show that.