5 ways the Pats got it good but we refuse to see because we don't remember "bad"

It's all relative.

You can't say "well, we could be fans of so and so teams" because we're not. It's irrational if you think we should think that way.

If you're in a job that pays you above the minimum wage, should you not try to strive for a higher paying job? Or should you have the mentality of "hey, at least it's above minimum wage?"

Interesting point, condon, except unlike your job as a fan you are not on the playing field with an influence over whether your team wins or loses. Even while attending the game, you are an environmental factor, not a preparation or execution factor. The Patriots attitude is "title or bust" and "be perfect," the appropriate attitude when you have the ball and some control over the outcome of a game. That attitude is the hallmark of a team on the field to compete.

I would analogize a fans' role to a parent. Most parents are proud of their kids if they are heading in the right direction and doing the utmost with what they have, regardless of the outcome. I would hate to think of a scenario in which a kid who sets a goal of "millionaire by 22" is viewed as a sad loser by parents when he or she only earns half that amount at that age. That is comparable to the response here from some posters when the Pats fall short of a title. A third party perspective of "mission failure -objective unattained." If that is the measuring stick of the season as a fan, rather than simply following a team capable of competing for a title, then your expectation is unreasonable as no team in history is capable of winning the title every year, despite 2001, 2003 and 2004, which shocked everyone in the salary cap era as it was not supposed to happen under salary cap controls. That is what makes those years so special.

Wax Frog said:

There ought to be a 3.5 for those of us who are 4s by nature but only caught on in '85 due to accidents of geography (born/raised in MD, heart in NH).

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That would be me too. Born in the 50's in Maryland, die hard Colts fan until that fateful day in March '84 that that bastard Irsay snuck the team out in the middle of the night. Became a Pats fan, and actually moved to NH in '90. A move to NJ and then back to MD since, I am still a true Pats fan. Through thick and thin, 1-15 seasons, missed playoff seasons, you name it.

Patriot_dynasty said:

4. The Lifer (AKA: The Old Crustys): This group of Patriot following foot soldiers know only 3 colors...RED, WHITE & BLUE (And we aint talkin' about the Giants or Bills). These are the true Patriots...the ones that have weathered through countless losing seasons, the ownership buffoonery, and the false hope each season seemed to bring. They look back at the past 10 years and have a true respect for what they have witnessed, and know exactly how good they have had it.

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Old Crustys rock... sometimes I have to pinch myself that we have been this good for this long, I remember the days at work when I used to wear ear jacks( or whatever they were called) to listen to Pats games as they were perenially blacked out... fellow workers used to think I was a gambler, as no one could understand why I would even listen to them.. but the sweet sounds of Gino and Gil always resonated well.

Remember the days was trivialized by Giants and Jets fans particularly as the latter wore their puke green jackets... every year when the JC Penney catalog would come in would search for any Pats clothing... somehow they missed them and only went with the big dogs...GB, Dallas,SF, NYG, NYJ, Oakland, Miami and a few others...

I am glad I suffered through the lean years, as I can enjoy the good years that much more.. everytime I get to Gillette my heart jumps and cannot believe how good we have it right now.... I have nothing but respect and admiration for what we have accomplished in the past 10 years

Is it possible to be known as just a Pats fan?

Someday I'll reach old crusty status but that sounds almost like a description for an STD.

Do not want

MassPats38 said:

Interesting point, condon, except unlike your job as a fan you are not on the playing field with an influence over whether your team wins or loses. Even while attending the game, you are an environmental factor, not a preparation or execution factor. The Patriots attitude is "title or bust" and "be perfect," the appropriate attitude when you have the ball and some control over the outcome of a game. That attitude is the hallmark of a team on the field to compete.

I would analogize a fans' role to a parent. Most parents are proud of their kids if they are heading in the right direction and doing the utmost with what they have, regardless of the outcome. I would hate to think of a scenario in which a kid who sets a goal of "millionaire by 22" is viewed as a sad loser by parents when he or she only earns half that amount at that age. That is comparable to the response here from some posters when the Pats fall short of a title. A third party perspective of "mission failure -objective unattained." If that is the measuring stick of the season as a fan, rather than simply following a team capable of competing for a title, then your expectation is unreasonable as no team in history is capable of winning the title every year, despite 2001, 2003 and 2004, which shocked everyone in the salary cap era as it was not supposed to happen under salary cap controls. That is what makes those years so special.

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Using the parent analogy:

If you have a child that receives A+'s on all his classes for 1-3rd grade, but then starts getting B's for 4th grade, shouldn't you encourage him to try harder because you know he has the potential for A's? I know it may be unrealistic for your kid to get A+'s all through school, but isn't it your duty to encourage your kid?

As a fan, although it is unrealistic for us to think that we should win the Superbowl every year, shouldn't we encourage our team to win the SB every year especially since we have the potential to do so because of the talent we have? So how do we encourage? As a consumer (because as fans, we are), we voice our displeasure when we see something that should be fixed, right?

This team goes as long as Brady plays at a high level. And based on past performance, it is not unreasonable to expect this team to perform at a high, since Brady is the QB.

We all know that once Brady hangs them up or his play slips, we are back to the dark ages.

Express what you want. It's a free country.

Note however, that one can embrace the team's quest for excellence, which to my eye has never abated, without insisting that because one is a "consumer" he is entitled to optimal outcomes in every case.

Again, a little clue -

It's unlikely you are smarter about football than the guys in Foxboro.

It's unlikely you are smarter about playcalling than the guys the Pats use in that role.

It's unlikely that you know more about when to "cut the cord" with any given "project" player than the Pats' coaching and personnel staff.

It's unlikely that you know more about draftees than the Pats' draft-day war-room, or are better at scouting talent than the Pats' scouting network.

They have jobs in the field. You do not. Their jobs are with a successful franchise, not with one whose decisions over time pan out so terribly that they cannot compete.

That said, feel free to second-guess any given draft choice, play call, or other decision. The only problem is that we all know the above facts, so any putative wisdom on your part will be most likely explained by the ex post facto nature of your analysis.

Hey, we all do it, what can I say. It doesn't mean you have to be quiet. It just means you have a tough row to hoe, to call out this organization. It's easier when the team is worse, because it can be demonstrated that they're clueless in many cases.

This is a tougher sell in the case of the Pats over the last few years.

Really I started the thread as a lighthearted goof, just saying hey, don't get too spoiled. Enjoy what we do have and hope like hell we're getting hot at the right time in 09, warts and all.

So hell, say what you want, but be prepared for people to point out the facts pertaining to the exercise. Everybody should be free to analyze and opine, hell, why not? It's part of being a fan. Just recognize where you stand. It is likely to influence how seriously you're taken vis a vis the "brain trust" of the most successful team in the last few years.

PFnV

condon84 said:

Using the parent analogy:

If you have a child that receives A+'s on all his classes for 1-3rd grade, but then starts getting B's for 4th grade, shouldn't you encourage him to try harder because you know he has the potential for A's? I know it may be unrealistic for your kid to get A+'s all through school, but isn't it your duty to encourage your kid?

As a fan, although it is unrealistic for us to think that we should win the Superbowl every year, shouldn't we encourage our team to win the SB every year especially since we have the potential to do so because of the talent we have? So how do we encourage? As a consumer (because as fans, we are), we voice our displeasure when we see something that should be fixed, right?

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I can see how encouragement is appropriate, but encouragement usually takes the form of pointing out the appropriate path to reach a goal, not emphasizing the result. You would likely not say, "You received a 'B' and that is unacceptably low." You would provide guidance in the form of preparation to increase the grade. Cheers and boos are directed to results (TDs, turnovers, etc.), not the path to achieve those results. Pointing out through boos when a team fumbles will not encourage anything - it points out what the team is already well aware of in terms of outcome. The team also likes hearing the crowd cheer, but I suspect that cheering will not produce the Pavlovian response of scoring TDs to get accolades either.

And I do not think PFnV is claiming it is wrong to criticize the Pats at all on this board or in general discussion. He was attempting to give some perspective to how well the organization is run since Kraft took it over. You may freely disagree with decisions made by the team, but results over the past decade confirm that this organization knows how to compete for titles. That is something few fans can enjoy with their teams. The crusties pointing to ancient history (I started watching the Pats 30 years ago so my history is not that ancient) saw plenty of chaotic and poorly run organizations, which was why 1976 was the battle cry for a long time as the organization so rarely saw pieces to compete assembled in one place and those pieces never stayed put for long. It was the nature of the organization back then to shoot itself in the foot, even when things seemed to be going well.

PFnV seems to be going for an "appreciate what you have" perspective, and I agree with that. Fans here often appear to view seasons as failures (2005 - divisional playoff loss, 2006- conference championship loss, 2007 - championship loss, 2008- missed playoffs at 11-5) while failing to see that most teams and fans of those teams would kill for any one of those outcomes. The Texans will celebrate a non-losing season, win or lose, after this weekend. I for one don't get too wrapped up in the disappointment of falling short of a title to appreciate my team is always in the mix, and always on the radar of other decent teams striving to get the Lombardi. It is a team's questions and weaknesses that makes football games worth watching as you appreciate the wins more when a team has to do more with what it has to win.

PFnV, no kidding, you could respond to every post on this board with:


But it's not much of a response. Empty. A message board poster isn't a NFL coach? What a surprise. But hats off to you for keeping those in your back pocket . As you say, its a free country.

II Jangles II said:

He was using examples and saying this team still has it's share of championship caliber players.

Watching this team, it is ludicrous to suggest that they are at best a 10-5 team. It's not a bad season but we could have performed better.

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Woulda...Coulda...Shoulda...

Meaningless.

They're a 10--5 team because they played like a 10--5 team.

We can argue all we want that they "could be" 12--3 because of a couple of plays in a couple of games; but, we can also argue that they "could be" 8--7 if McKelvin doesn't try to return that kick and Clayton doesn't drop that pass on the numbers.

10--5. That's what they are; that's how they've played.

Doesn't mean I don't think they can still win the SB. But they'll win it as a (hopefully) 11--5 team. I'll take it, BTW.

II Jangles II said:

Is it possible to be known as just a Pats fan?

Someday I'll reach old crusty status but that sounds almost like a description for an STD.

Do not want

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Of course...I posted that mumbo-jumbo to add some levity to the post. My 2 sons are teenagers and are life long Pats fans, but all they know is the good times...which is awesome.

Hardboiled said:

PFnV, no kidding, you could respond to every post on this board with:

You're not a GM.
You're not a NFL coach/Scout.
You're still better off than a Detriot fan.​

But it's not much of a response. Empty. A message board poster isn't a NFL coach? What a surprise. But hats off to you for keeping those in your back pocket . As you say, its a free country.

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Yeah quite the paradox. We'll all keep doing it anyway, because we have to talk about something. The fact that we're here speaks to needing something Pats-related between the actual games... and don't even TALK to me about the off-seasons.

PatsFanInVa said:

and they have Sherm Lewis incurring delay of game penalties because when he hears on the head set "third and eleven" he feels compelled to answer "take me to heaven." Once when Jason Campbell was calling signals and got to BLUE, SEVENTEEN...and Sherm answered "BINGO!"

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Are you serious about this? Do you have like a link or something? (And I want to assure you it's not cuz I don't believe you but because I want to hear more of these stories so I can shake a ball loose laughing)

LOL no no no, I am joking but it's a lot like that.

On some downs, it's Sherm Lewis, on other downs guys up in the box call a variety of plays from which Lewis can pick some, on some downs Jim Zorn is allowed to call the play, then there's some sort of thing where they have to call the play, send it up to the owner's booth, get it approved, and get it on the field... it's utter freaking madness.

I'm not sure I've got this completely right, but let's put it this way, you know that diamond-based decision box on a flow chart? There are 3 or 4 of those between the "input" box that says 3rd and 7 and the "output" box that says the play they are calling.

PFnV

Great post, PFnV. It's been a fun season, however long it lasts in the end.

All successful teams attract bandwagon fans. Of course, a large percentage of those will disappear when we start having losing seasons, which is fine by me. As you said in following posts, people should a) remember that the Pats are privy to a huge amount of information we will never see and b) there was a time when it was downright embarrassing to be a Pats fan...

PatsFanInVa said:

LOL no no no, I am joking but it's a lot like that.

On some downs, it's Sherm Lewis, on other downs guys up in the box call a variety of plays from which Lewis can pick some, on some downs Jim Zorn is allowed to call the play, then there's some sort of thing where they have to call the play, send it up to the owner's booth, get it approved, and get it on the field... it's utter freaking madness.

I'm not sure I've got this completely right, but let's put it this way, you know that diamond-based decision box on a flow chart? There are 3 or 4 of those between the "input" box that says 3rd and 7 and the "output" box that says the play they are calling.

PFnV

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Washington's O line is so miserable, that any play calling is going to be difficult at best. I do not envy any of the Washington offensive coaches.

Our OC has had a terrible season, probably in part because the O Line was banged up a lot this season, but mostly due to inexperience.