Better Defense...Pats or Chargers?

[DonBlackmon55]

Schemes - Pats
Talent - Chargers
Intelligence - Pats
Linebackers - Chargers
Secondary - slight edge to Chargers
Line - even
experience - Pats
facial hair - Pats
turnovers - Chargers

winner - slight edge to the Chargers, which against the Pats offense is rendered moot. In other words:

Pats defense v. Chargers offense is better that Chargers defense v. Pats offense.

Linebackers - Even
DL - Pats......no even close.


while we're at it, let's hand coaching to Chargers. Afterall Norv Turner so far superior to BB.

 

[Dojo Chargerfan]

Linebackers - Even
DL - Pats......no even close.


while we're at it, let's hand coaching to Chargers. Afterall Norv Turner so far superior to BB.

Not IMO. The DL is even in a lot of peoples opinions mostly because we have a even NT, Seymore holds the edge with Castillo but only because Castillo is oft injured but our backups are better and established over the Pats. i would even with the slight slight slight edge to the Pats but I wouldn't call them not even close.

 

[fnordcircle]

Not IMO. The DL is even in a lot of peoples opinions mostly because we have a even NT, Seymore holds the edge with Castillo but only because Castillo is oft injured but our backups are better and established over the Pats. i would even with the slight slight slight edge to the Pats but I wouldn't call them not even close.

Ty Warren is better than Richard Seymour. He's consistent against the run and the pass and doesn't take 6 weeks off every goddamn year.

Wilfork and Jamal are even no doubt. But our ends are better than your ends.

Of course you got it all over us for LBs. I think DB is closer than you'd think, though.

 

[Dojo Chargerfan]

another ******ed post. How good was that Rams D on those greastest show on earth teams ? Their hig octane O surely did not help their D. Your 80's super SD charger or the Miami Dolphin D were both ****ty despite high octane O.

Clueless posting, typical of a Dolt

you really like to start arguments don't you? We're talking football, not arguing so knock it down a peg and stop calling people ******ed.

There's a difference from a ball control offense and an explosive offense. The pats, although with a pass game, are strickley ball control with the explosive capabilities, while as the other offenses that you brought up were very explosive and got a lot of their points off the long ball. Brady is safe and doesn't like to turn the ball over so when his defense hits the field they're well rested. I think those old fogies needed the rest. lol

 

[TommyD4207]

you really like to start arguments don't you? We're talking football, not arguing so knock it down a peg and stop calling people ******ed.

There's a difference from a ball control offense and an explosive offense. The pats, although with a pass game, are strickley ball control with the explosive capabilities, while as the other offenses that you brought up were very explosive and got a lot of their points off the long ball. Brady is safe and doesn't like to turn the ball over so when his defense hits the field they're well rested. I think those old fogies needed the rest. lol

Ok, this post makes me want to call you ******ed, although I won't.

The Patriots have the most explosive offense of all-time. That's numerical. If you want to bring back the 6 year old "Brady is nothing but a dinker-dunker" arguement; I suggest you watch the first Jets game, the Chargers Game, The Cinicinatti game, The First Buffalo Game, The First Miami game, The Washington Game, The Second Buffalo game and the Giants game to see how "Non-Explosive" this offense is. Also throw in the Colts game, because it's the reason they lost. You don't throw for 4800 yds and 50 TD by dinking and dunking. You just don't. I have no idea what team you're watching by some of your comments.

 

[SeymourTrophies]

To to be unbias.

Speaking statistically, the pats. The best defense from the regular season still standing.

D-line: Pats
LBs: Chargers
Corners:Chargers
Safeties: Pats

 

[Dojo Chargerfan]

Ty Warren is better than Richard Seymour. He's consistent against the run and the pass and doesn't take 6 weeks off every goddamn year.

Wilfork and Jamal are even no doubt. But our ends are better than your ends.

Of course you got it all over us for LBs. I think DB is closer than you'd think, though.

As you think your DB's are closer than I think I think you underestimate Igor and Castillo at ends. Maybe the Pats are better but they're very very capable of stopping any team in the league.

The DB's may be close but we have some SERIOUS talent at CB. Jammer has shut down WR's for years, although not getting the recognition or INT's which is unfortunatly the measuring stick for a great CB for the media. Cro has grown into probably the best CB in the league, but also there is an argument that he's not even the best CB on the team with Jammer. Florence is good but we've kinda soured on his immaturity but he has talent that's for sure. Weddle plays the nickel and matches up well with Welker physically wise. Paul Oliver was also taken from the sup draft and was projected to be top 10 next year in the draft. Your DB's aren't great but they just know how to end games. Man for man I think we hold an UNBELIVABLE advantage but as a unit we are closer than a lot of people think

 

[Dojo Chargerfan]

Ok, this post makes me want to call you ******ed, although I won't.

The Patriots have the most explosive offense of all-time. That's numerical. If you want to bring back the 6 year old "Brady is nothing but a dinker-dunker" arguement; I suggest you watch the first Jets game, the Chargers Game, The Cinicinatti game, The First Buffalo Game, The First Miami game, The Washington Game, The Second Buffalo game and the Giants game to see how "Non-Explosive" this offense is. Also throw in the Colts game, because it's the reason they lost. You don't throw for 4800 yds and 50 TD by dinking and dunking. You just don't. I have no idea what team you're watching by some of your comments.

And you don't throw 8 int by taking shots down field when you shouldn't be. He throws to the open man with an unbelievable completion percentage keeping the clock rolling. I DID say that they have explosive capabilities but they used it only when it was open, they didn't force much all year. They took what the defense gave them and for the most part they dinked and dunked. Now, dinking and dunking is not a bad thing. It could mean finishing the game with 400 yards passing.

 

[TommyD4207]

As you think your DB's are closer than I think I think you underestimate Igor and Castillo at ends. Maybe the Pats are better but they're very very capable of stopping any team in the league.

The DB's may be close but we have some SERIOUS talent at CB. Jammer has shut down WR's for years, although not getting the recognition or INT's which is unfortunatly the measuring stick for a great CB for the media. Cro has grown into probably the best CB in the league, but also there is an argument that he's not even the best CB on the team with Jammer. Florence is good but we've kinda soured on his immaturity but he has talent that's for sure. Weddle plays the nickel and matches up well with Welker physically wise. Paul Oliver was also taken from the sup draft and was projected to be top 10 next year in the draft. Your DB's aren't great but they just know how to end games. Man for man I think we hold an UNBELIVABLE advantage but as a unit we are closer than a lot of people think

The Chargers corners are clearly better than the Patriots'.
That said, to say the Patriots defensive backs aren't good isn't just silly, it's also just flat out wrong.

And again, you're matching up Defensive Backs and Receivers as if they're going to play man up coverage. If they do that, the Patriots will win by multiple touchdowns. Norv Turner essentially said himself he would never put Cromartie on Moss in man up coverage in his presser today.

 

[TommyD4207]

And you don't throw 8 int by taking shots down field when you shouldn't be. He throws to the open man with an unbelievable completion percentage keeping the clock rolling. I DID say that they have explosive capabilities but they used it only when it was open, they didn't force much all year. They took what the defense gave them and for the most part they dinked and dunked. Now, dinking and dunking is not a bad thing. It could mean finishing the game with 400 yards passing.

The Patriots lead the league (by a large margin) in 20+ yd completions and 40+ yd completions.

"The most part they dinked and dunked". That's just incorrect. They did last week. That was not the norm. You're just wrong here.

 

[SeymourTrophies]

Ok, this post makes me want to call you ******ed, although I won't.

The Patriots have the most explosive offense of all-time. That's numerical. If you want to bring back the 6 year old "Brady is nothing but a dinker-dunker" arguement; I suggest you watch the first Jets game, the Chargers Game, The Cinicinatti game, The First Buffalo Game, The First Miami game, The Washington Game, The Second Buffalo game and the Giants game to see how "Non-Explosive" this offense is. Also throw in the Colts game, because it's the reason they lost. You don't throw for 4800 yds and 50 TD by dinking and dunking. You just don't. I have no idea what team you're watching by some of your comments.

I get what he's saying. The pats offense is explosive, but they also have the ability to methodically rip piece by piece. The other teams that were known as explosive lived and died with the long ball or some sort of quick hit and couldn't score any other way. Billick's playbook in 98-99 entailed a variety of plays such as long pass to moss, bomb to moss, deep throw to moss, and dear god let moss catch this. This offense will take what you give them and don't have just one way to beat you, and they're just as likely to have a 15 play 10 minute drive as to score a 70 yarder. He worded it in an odd fashion, but I get what he's saying.

 

[Dojo Chargerfan]

The Chargers corners are clearly better than the Patriots'.
That said, to say the Patriots defensive backs aren't good isn't just silly, it's also just flat out wrong.

And again, you're matching up Defensive Backs and Receivers as if they're going to play man up coverage. If they do that, the Patriots will win by multiple touchdowns. Norv Turner essentially said himself he would never put Cromartie on Moss in man up coverage in his presser today.

I think you should read what I wrote again. I said they were great as a unit. They played zone and they are very very smart and don't blow many coverages. The Patriots strengths are in their ability to keep everything in front of them and force turnovers. I just think that talent wise the Chargers are clearly superior but they blow coverages on occasion but they also take chances and get the turnovers better than anyone in the league.

 

[Dojo Chargerfan]

I get what he's saying. The pats offense is explosive, but they also have the ability to methodically rip piece by piece. The other teams that were known as explosive lived and died with the long ball or some sort of quick hit and couldn't score any other way. Billick's playbook in 98-99 entailed a variety of plays such as long pass to moss, bomb to moss, deep throw to moss, and dear god let moss catch this. This offense will take what you give them and don't have just one way to beat you, and they're just as likely to have a 15 play 10 minute drive as to score a 70 yarder. He worded it in an odd fashion, but I get what he's saying.

exactly. When my A.D.D. kicks in I find it hard to word my sentences.

 

[fnordcircle]

Cro has grown into probably the best CB in the league

No, he is not the best CB in the league. In another year or two he may very well but, but right now he's not. I'm not taking anything away from the guy but he needs just a little more seasoning to get the savvy of a guy like Ty Law or other CBs who have stayed at the top of their game for the bulk of their career.

but also there is an argument that he's not even the best CB on the team with Jammer. Florence is good but we've kinda soured on his immaturity but he has talent that's for sure.

Jammer's great, no doubt. I'd take Jammer over any CB on the field, but I'd take Asante second even with his abyssmal game last week. He's got a more proven track record than Cromartie.

Harrison and Sanders, who I feel is underrated, I take over them over your safeties.

What gets lost in this, and I think bears serious consideration, is that as the season wore on there was absolutely no doubt that teams were preparing for the Patriots like it was their super bowl. Teams that had no business playing out of their minds did so. Certainly some of that is on the Patriots' D but you've also got to give credit where credit is due. In spite of that, and the huge leads this team often put on other teams, they very nearly lead the league in points allowed.

In the end I do give the nod to SD's defense overall for talent and speed without any doubt. Not to get all silly but I do feel that the Patriots' D holds a serious edge when it comes to experience and savvy and these things do seem to pay dividends in the post season even if they cannot be captured on a stat sheet.

So I guess we're basically agreeing with each other, for the most part.

 

[Dojo Chargerfan]

No, he is not the best CB in the league. In another year or two he may very well but, but right now he's not. I'm not taking anything away from the guy but he needs just a little more seasoning to get the savvy of a guy like Ty Law or other CBs who have stayed at the top of their game for the bulk of their career.



Jammer's great, no doubt. I'd take Jammer over any CB on the field, but I'd take Asante second even with his abyssmal game last week. He's got a more proven track record than Cromartie.

Harrison and Sanders, who I feel is underrated, I take over them over your safeties.

What gets lost in this, and I think bears serious consideration, is that as the season wore on there was absolutely no doubt that teams were preparing for the Patriots like it was their super bowl. Teams that had no business playing out of their minds did so. Certainly some of that is on the Patriots' D but you've also got to give credit where credit is due. In spite of that, and the huge leads this team often put on other teams, they very nearly lead the league in points allowed.

In the end I do give the nod to SD's defense overall for talent and speed without any doubt. Not to get all silly but I do feel that the Patriots' D holds a serious edge when it comes to experience and savvy and these things do seem to pay dividends in the post season even if they cannot be captured on a stat sheet.

So I guess we're basically agreeing with each other, for the most part.

As a member of the BHC, my name is Dojo and I support this post

 

[SeymourTrophies]

Ty Warren is better than Richard Seymour. He's consistent against the run and the pass and doesn't take 6 weeks off every goddamn year.

Wilfork and Jamal are even no doubt. But our ends are better than your ends.

Of course you got it all over us for LBs. I think DB is closer than you'd think, though.

Williams and Wilfork are even when they're healthy, but from what I saw against the colts, Williams isn't healthy and hasn't been all season.

 

[Dojo Chargerfan]

Williams and Wilfork are even when they're healthy, but from what I saw against the colts, Williams isn't healthy and hasn't been all season.

Williams has always struggled against smaller OLinemen for some reason. But you're right, he's been struggling with his health all season. Hopefully he could return to form and have another 4 good years in him because we're not ready to replace him yet.

 

[SeymourTrophies]

You're never ready to replace a dominant nose tackle, and that position makes the rest of the 3-4 defense's world go 'round. You don't know how long a player can last once their injury is nagging, especially when we're talking about a player that needs all the leverage he can get to slam his 300 pound body into one or more other 300 pound bodies. Perhaps he will come back and return to his old ways, but it wouldn't suprise me if the opposite happened especially considering his age. Why is Williams only recently known as one of the best? Is is because the chargers are good? You don't magically turn into a premier nose guard at 31 years of age.

 

[TommyD4207]

You're never ready to replace a dominant nose tackle, and that position makes the rest of the 3-4 defense's world go 'round. You don't know how long a player can last once their injury is nagging, especially when we're talking about a player that needs all the leverage he can get to slam his 300 pound body into one or more other 300 pound bodies. Perhaps he will come back and return to his old ways, but it wouldn't suprise me if the opposite happened especially considering his age. Why is Williams only recently known as one of the best? Is is because the chargers are good? You don't magically turn into a premier nose guard at 31 years of age.

He really hit his stride a couple years ago.
Some players just "click" later (Mike Vrabel, for example)

 

[Deus Irae]

New England's defensive line is better. How anyone can even question this is curious to me. Wilfork has become better than Williams, Seymour and Warren make it so 3 of the best 4 DL are Patriots, and Jarvis Green would be a starter for the Chargers but can't crack the lineup in New England.

New England's Db's are better. Samuel, Hobbs, Gay, Harrison, Sanders comprise the 'starting' 5, with Meriweather, Wilson and company filling out the depth. San Diego's safeties are terrible.

I rate the linebackers relatively even. Vrabel is the best LB on either team, while Thomas is probably the most talented when Merriman isn't on the juice (in a year where people have complained that they think he is disappearing in games, Thomas still had 78 tackles and 6.5 sacks despite that injury early in the season). People have been pimping up Phillips and Merriman for 2 years, but Vrabel has shown he can get to the quarterback just as well as any Charger linebacker (12.5 sacks this season, and it's amazing that he's STILL frequently ignored when people talk about this defense). I'd take the starting 4 for New England over the Chargers, but I'd still call things even because Colvin's absence gives S.D. the nod when it comes to depth.