Better Defense...Pats or Chargers?

[Dojo Chargerfan]

You're never ready to replace a dominant nose tackle, and that position makes the rest of the 3-4 defense's world go 'round. You don't know how long a player can last once their injury is nagging, especially when we're talking about a player that needs all the leverage he can get to slam his 300 pound body into one or more other 300 pound bodies. Perhaps he will come back and return to his old ways, but it wouldn't suprise me if the opposite happened especially considering his age. Why is Williams only recently known as one of the best? Is is because the chargers are good? You don't magically turn into a premier nose guard at 31 years of age.

He was drafted in 98 and he first started in 00. We sucked until 04 and our defense had little to no recognition due to us being so far southwest. It's hard to imagine but there is a lot of media east coast bias out there. I mean, just look at when they compare Rivers to Eli Manning. Rivers is clearly the better QB but because NY is a bigger market they are more exposed to Eli than Rivers and thus they think Eli has the potential to be better. Back to Jamal, he was just a victim of being on a bad, underexposed, low market team. He was up there since 02 though. He's been dominant for a while.

 

[Dojo Chargerfan]

New England's defensive line is better. How anyone can even question this is curious to me. Wilfork has become better than Williams, Seymour and Warren make it so 3 of the best 4 DL are Patriots, and Jarvis Green would be a starter for the Chargers but can't crack the lineup in New England.

New England's Db's are better. Samuel, Hobbs, Gay, Harrison, Sanders comprise the 'starting' 5, with Meriweather, Wilson and company filling out the depth. San Diego's safeties are terrible.

I rate the linebackers relatively even. Vrabel is the best LB on either team, while Thomas is probably the most talented when Merriman isn't on the juice (in a year where people have complained that they think he is disappearing in games, Thomas still had 78 tackles and 6.5 sacks despite that injury early in the season). People have been pimping up Phillips and Merriman for 2 years, but Vrabel has shown he can get to the quarterback just as well as any Charger linebacker (12.5 sacks this season, and it's amazing that he's STILL frequently ignored when people talk about this defense). I'd take the starting 4 for New England over the Chargers, but I'd still call things even because Colvin's absence gives S.D. the nod when it comes to depth.

You really don't know much about SD do you? Jamal has still been dominant, although saying that VW is better is not a reach, but he's been hurt.

Your DB's are NOT better than the Chargers'. We have some of the best CB's in the league in Jammer, Cromartie, Florence, Weddle, and Oliver. Our safeties are NOT terrible, they're middle of the road S's. Your safeties are better but our CB's are CLEARLY a better and more talented group.

Vrabel being the best on either team? ha! Merriman is arguably the best LB in the league. i just don't understand where you come from. I would still even take Shaun Phillips over Vrabel. Thomas is the best ILB out of the group but Cooper has really grown into a excelent LB and had 16 tackles against the Colts and Wilhelm has been consistant while Seau has been ok. I would take our LB core out of ANY in the league. Plus, you've never heard the talk that the Chargers have the best front 7 in the league?

 

[TommyD4207]

Vrabel being the best on either team? ha! Merriman is arguably the best LB in the league. i just don't understand where you come from. I would still even take Shaun Phillips over Vrabel. Thomas is the best ILB out of the group but Cooper has really grown into a excelent LB and had 16 tackles against the Colts and Wilhelm has been consistant while Seau has been ok. I would take our LB core out of ANY in the league. Plus, you've never heard the talk that the Chargers have the best front 7 in the league?

Defensive Player of the Year Voting - 2007
Bob Sanders(Safety-Indianapolis) - 29
Patrick Kerney(End-Seattle) - 4
Albert Haynesworth(Tackle-Tennessee) - 4
Antonio Cromartie(Cornerback-San Diego) - 3
Mike Vrabel(Linebacker-New England) - 2
DeMarcus Ware(Linebacker-Dallas) - 2
Ronde Barber(Cornerback-Tampa Bay) - 1
James Harrison(Linebacker-Pittbsurgh) - 1
Patrick Willis(Linebacker-San Francisco) - 1
Mario Williams(End-Houston) - 1

I don't see any San Diego Linebackers on this list.

Mike Vrabel (2007) - 77 tackles (55 solo), 12.5 sacks, 5 Forced Fumbles
Shawne "Lights Out" Merriman (2007) - 68 tackles (54 solo), 12.5 sacks, 2 Forced Fumbles
Shaun Phillips (2007) - 68 tackles (52 solo), 8.5 sacks, 3 Forced Fumbles, 2 INT

Looks like Vrabel had the more productive year. Which would be the opposite of what you said here:

Vrabel being the best on either team? ha! Merriman is arguably the best LB in the league. i just don't understand where you come from. I would still even take Shaun Phillips over Vrabel.

 

[Deus Irae]

You really don't know much about SD do you? Jamal has still been dominant, although saying that VW is better is not a reach, but he's been hurt.

Your DB's are NOT better than the Chargers'. We have some of the best CB's in the league in Jammer, Cromartie, Florence, Weddle, and Oliver. Our safeties are NOT terrible, they're middle of the road S's. Your safeties are better but our CB's are CLEARLY a better and more talented group.

Vrabel being the best on either team? ha! Merriman is arguably the best LB in the league. i just don't understand where you come from. I would still even take Shaun Phillips over Vrabel. Thomas is the best ILB out of the group but Cooper has really grown into a excelent LB and had 16 tackles against the Colts and Wilhelm has been consistant while Seau has been ok. I would take our LB core out of ANY in the league. Plus, you've never heard the talk that the Chargers have the best front 7 in the league?

Vrabel = Pro Bowl starter
Wilfork = Pro Bowl starter
Samuel = Pro Bowl starter

Vrabel = All Pro first team, Merriman again his backup
Wilfork = All Pro second team, Williams didn't make either All Pro team
Samue = All Pro first team, Cromartie joining him.


Hmm..... Merriman, Cromartie and Williams are all backups to those above players in the Pro Bowl, and the 'recognition gap' widens when it comes to All Pro due to Williams' complete absence. Perhaps other people, such as players and coaches in the NFL, understand where I'm coming from. You overrate your corners and outside linebackers, underrate New England's linebackers and are clueless about your safeties.

You are, of course, welcome to hold your own opinion even as it runs counter to the evidence. That's what being a fan is about, after all.

 

[fnordcircle]

Vrabel = Pro Bowl starter
Wilfork = Pro Bowl starter
Samuel = Pro Bowl starter

Vrabel = All Pro first team, Merriman again his backup
Wilfork = All Pro second team, Williams didn't make either All Pro team
Samue = All Pro first team, Cromartie joining him.


Hmm..... Merriman, Cromartie and Williams are all backups to those above players in the Pro Bowl, and the 'recognition gap' widens when it comes to All Pro due to Williams' complete absence.

How many years was Tom Brady unquestionably one of the top QBs in the league in our eyes but he wasn't voted into the Pro Bowl or an All-Pro? We're talking about who are actually the best players, leave the popularity contests out of it.

 

[Deus Irae]

How many years was Tom Brady unquestionably one of the top QBs in the league in our eyes but he wasn't voted into the Pro Bowl or an All-Pro? We're talking about who are actually the best players, leave the popularity contests out of it.

Read his post, slick. He's the one who brought up recognition issues. I simply responded.

Plus, you've never heard the talk that the Chargers have the best front 7 in the league?

I'm fully cognizant of the realities of name recognition and the like when it comes to such things.

 

[Pats_2007]

DL - Pats
LB - Chargers
DB - Pats (The Chargers CBs may be slightly better.....but the Pats have a big edge in the saftey position.)

 

[eom]

all year I have to listen to how the pats are going to be beaten 9 out of 10 times by san diego's revenge squad, roughed up by this physical washington defense, the like of which they've never seen, bullied by the scary dallas defense, taken out by indy's top ranked d, stymied by pittsburgh's league best d, and even after kicking all those teams in the nuts, they're going to finally meet their match against the superphysical jags defense!
omg!!
every goddamn week it's always what the team is GOING to do --- you'd think after 17 freaking games (not even going back to last year's awesome d) you *******s would learn.
that is, unless you have some kind of learning disability........

until your worthless ******* team has actually accomplished something, do me a favor and stfu!
that goes double for you, complainian, and you too, cry me a rivers.

pats d >>>>>chargers d, while chargers d is definitely the more overrated, as we'll see this weekend.
and when we do I expect a mea culpa thread from their fans slobbing pats knob.

 

[jmt57]

I think overall the Patriots have a slightly better defense. Two things about San Diego's defense we may be overlooking are their ability to force turnovers - they're ranked first in takeaways; and they don't give up big plays - against the Colts they gave up a ton of yards but not many points. What it comes down to is one team that doesn't turn the ball over versus a team that forces turnovers.

 

[PatsDeb]

I don't know about stats, but since we have 5 more wins, I'd say you have to give it to the Pats. In the end, wins are the only stat that counts.