Future Extension for Cooks

[PatsFan2]

I will just say this if Cooks was as Great or Elite like some on Patsfans is making him out to be why did the Saints trade him again?? Also last season before we traded for him didn't he complain about losing targets to Rookie Michael Thomas then? That said he still didn't have more yards than Michael Thomas now. My point you have to be a Blind Homer not to see Cooks flaws. I can't see BB breaking the bank for this current Cooks.

 

[maineman209]

I didn’t mean to suggest as much. I was looking at the bigger picture of an entire rookie deal as opposed to a guy like say, Easley who appeared to look alright and didn’t continue progressing.

Sorry. I didn't mean to come off as being critical or snarky. It was just something I noticed that I don't think most fans are generally aware of. Well, obviously, those who claim that Brown has been "disappointing" aren't aware.

Kind of reminds me of Nink's first 3 seasons full-time on the defense when he was matching Vrabel's corresponding seasons with the Pats stat-for-stat, and yet a lot of fans insisted he was crap and should be cut ASAP.

 

[supafly]

Sorry. I didn't mean to come off as being critical or snarky. It was just something I noticed that I don't think most fans are generally aware of. Well, obviously, those who claim that Brown has been "disappointing" aren't aware.

Kind of reminds me of Nink's first 3 seasons full-time on the defense when he was matching Vrabel's corresponding seasons with the Pats stat-for-stat, and yet a lot of fans insisted he was crap and should be cut ASAP.

I think there was a fair amount of criticism as recent as the beginning few games of the year, but I defended him time and time again.

I was simply looking at the big picture of how successful he’ll be seen here since the most recent examples that we had were ‘12 Jones and Hightower. If there are some people who feel as though he’s already reached that point right now, God bless their optimism. As a whole, I think he’s been a fine first round pick and is continuing to grow. He could be a dominant force by next season with that kind of progression.

 

[luuked]

I think there was a fair amount of criticism as recent as the beginning few games of the year, but I defended him time and time again.

I was simply looking at the big picture of how successful he’ll be seen here since the most recent examples that we had were ‘12 Jones and Hightower. If there are some people who feel as though he’s already reached that point right now, God bless their optimism. As a whole, I think he’s been a fine first round pick and is continuing to grow. He could be a dominant force by next season with that kind of progression.

I think many people have real difficulties judging the play of players in less popular positions. The heavy emphasis on scheme and doing various subtle things at NE doesnt make it easier. So I am not surprised that some fans are measuring Brown against completely different players like Aaron Donald or Geno Atkins.

Hightower is the perfect example of a player that many (including me) undervalued for a bit. I think it took me until the Colts playoff game in 13 to realize that he became the most irreplaceable player out of Collins, Jones and himself. Ironically that game as also the coming out party for Jamie Collins..

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

The fact that you think Brown hasn't produced is hilarious

Top ten in his draft class for sacks, tackles at/behind los I believe

 

[cupofjoe1962]

I was delighted when the Pats got Cooks.

That being said, he is more of a complementary receiver than a guy who can take over a game.

Some games, “Last week vs Buffalo for example”, he just disappears.

I don’t know what they are going to do, but I don’t see the Patriots paying Cooks 12m+
When they have receivers like Hogan & Edelman who don’t break the bank.

Cooks is a great deep threat, but he is not a guy who can carry a team.

 

[supafly]

I don’t know what they are going to do, but I don’t see the Patriots paying Cooks 12m+
When they have receivers like Hogan & Edelman who don’t break the bank.

I thought the debate was over whether or not they would pay Cooks the type of market value that Davante Adams just received, which is 14.5m AAV. That’s why I was somewhat skeptical.

I could see some scenarios where your example of 12m dollars a year may be in play. Again, I think they’ll need to see how he progresses in this offense next year before even entertaining the thought.

 

[TheFlyingWedge]

I don't think the Pats will extend Cooks - while his numbers have been respectable, I dont think that he's demonstrated the ability to be a number one receiver. Maybe he needs more time in the system, but he just seems out of sync with Brady too often.

 

[PatsFan2]

I thought the debate was over whether or not they would pay Cooks the type of market value that Davante Adams just received, which is 14.5m AAV. That’s why I was somewhat skeptical.

I could see some scenarios where your example of 12m dollars a year may be in play. Again, I think they’ll need to see how he progresses in this offense next year before even entertaining the thought.

It's unfortunate Rodgers got injured Devante Adams was on his way to becoming a Super WR he's a TD machine too.

 

[HailHydra]

I don't think the Pats will extend Cooks - while his numbers have been respectable, I dont think that he's demonstrated the ability to be a number one receiver. Maybe he needs more time in the system, but he just seems out of sync with Brady too often.

But whose fault is it really? Cooks, or any other deep threat in the league, won't be able to make catches if the QB overthrows/underthrows half the balls thrown his way. Especially with Cooks' deep routes, it isn't a matter of chemistry as it is just accuracy.

 

[n6249c]

That is on some level the good old Chandler Jones argument. If you have someone who wants (close to) tier 1 money he better be a game changing force like Watt or Donald. Those players are -- like Gronk -- worth their top of the line money because they fundamentally change how the other team operates.

It really is the second tier of players that have great looking stats but are either inconsistent, streaky or just stats compilers that you want to avoid paying a lot of money to. Those are great players to have on rookie contracts because their production relative to their salary is pretty good.

And once you get to the middle class of players there is a ton of value to be had if you have a good vision of your schemes and a great pro scouting department. Who would you rather have ? Marvin Jones for 8.6m or Chris Hogan for 3.5m next year ?

This is where we feast..

seems to me there's a subtle tradeoff here. If you've got great schemes and the coaching and scouting staffs to execute them that too can be something that changes how the opponents operates. And it changes the economics of how you operate, because now you can pay fair market value for those middle class players who fit your schemes at an affordable cap number. And you don't need to overspend on those truly top tier outliers because you don't need them to change the game for you.

So to me it will depend on Cooks. If he wants top dollar, or even just the ego strokes of being seen as going for top dollar, he'll follow Welker and Revis right out of town. If he's satisfied with fair pay for a fair day he'll be sticking around like 'Dola and Mr Avocado Ice Cream.

 

[patfanken]

To reiterate the discussion. Cooks is a very productive receiver who not only fits well in the Pats offensive system, but with his speed makes the "system" better. That being said there are several reasons that makes be believe that the Pats will never extend Cooks to a "market" deal (13-15MM/yr).

For some reason the rest of the league seems to feel the need to have that big, fast, physically dominating receiver (Julio Jones is the archetype). @JayMN gives the seminal post on why you SHOULDN'T pay receivers that much on page one of this thread. It explains it better than I'm about to in this summary.

a,Even the great ones only tough the ball 10 odd times and that's on a good day. So while they get all the hype, there are a lot of other players who impact what goes on in the game more play to play.

b. Even the greatest receiver can be shut down by either great schemes or when the other team has a great player too. We have seen Cooks shut down or limited by hard physical man to man coverage. We knew coming in that this was an issue for him in NO too.

c. The WR position is the most replaceable position in the league. Every year colleges are producing multiple player who have the physical skills to become NFL WR's. If the Pats move on from Cooks, they can find someone who they can pay 50% less and get 85% of the production (roughly) and use that money elsewhere. We have seen it time and time again over the years.

d. BB paid a high price to acquire Cooks, but if he only stays for 2 years an produces consistently what we've seen this year, then it was WELL worth the cost.

e. But know this, BB is NEVER going to offer Cooks a "market" deal either as an extension after this season OR as a FA after next. But he WILL make offers in both situations. Offers that make sense within the Pats salary structure. This offers will be for a LOT of money, just not the crazy money the less organizations are passing out to WR's

f. A reasonable deal for Cooks would be something like this:

1. A $10MM signing bonus

2. Annual salaries that will run in the $5-6MM area. Salaries that will be guaranteed if he makes the roster each year.

3. Incentives that will hit on some combination of games played and yds gained that will allow him to earn in the $10MM range if he has a year like he had this one. And if he had an "Antonio Brown kind of year" he can make $12-13MM.

4. If he is hurt or regresses to like an 800yd season, then of course he would earn less.

g. I think more and more, for skill players, the Pats are going to be using the Gronk incentive model for contracts.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I don't think the Pats will extend Cooks - while his numbers have been respectable, I dont think that he's demonstrated the ability to be a number one receiver. Maybe he needs more time in the system, but he just seems out of sync with Brady too often.

So in 2018 the Patriots chose not to extend an almost 26 year old Cooks because they have a 42 year old QB?

 

[RobertWeathers]

I was delighted when the Pats got Cooks.

That being said, he is more of a complementary receiver than a guy who can take over a game.

Some games, “Last week vs Buffalo for example”, he just disappears.

I don’t know what they are going to do, but I don’t see the Patriots paying Cooks 12m+
When they have receivers like Hogan & Edelman who don’t break the bank.

Cooks is a great deep threat, but he is not a guy who can carry a team.

Who is to blame? Cooks or Brady? Josh?

 

[supafly]

But whose fault is it really? Cooks, or any other deep threat in the league, won't be able to make catches if the QB overthrows/underthrows half the balls thrown his way. Especially with Cooks' deep routes, it isn't a matter of chemistry as it is just accuracy.

I think the hope is to have Cooks as much more than just a deep threat. If that continues to progress then he should be considered for a nice extension.

There are many ways to utilize his speed in mismatches, as well as have him run a deeper variety of routes and make him into a more complete receiver. I expect a nice jump from year one to year two, and this year should be considered quite the success, particularly when you factor in the low cost.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I will just say this if Cooks was as Great or Elite like some on Patsfans is making him out to be why did the Saints trade him again?? Also last season before we traded for him didn't he complain about losing targets to Rookie Michael Thomas then? That said he still didn't have more yards than Michael Thomas now. My point you have to be a Blind Homer not to see Cooks flaws. I can't see BB breaking the bank for this current Cooks.

Right or wrong Cooks *****ed because Brees could throw deep.

 

[PatsFan2]

Right or wrong Cooks *****ed because Brees could throw deep.

rob: that throwing deep stuff is overrated. Before Brady became the GOAT...the talk was always but...but he can't throw the deep ball. Brees wasn't gifted with a cannon arm but he's as accurate as they come. And like Brady he can hit Cooks if he gets open deep.

 

[RayClay]

That was when the cap was not $180m. As long as you don't have stupid dead money you can do a heavy front loaded deal for a player in their prime

I'm obviously not against that. I just think top WRs are the most overpaid of players compared to their value in winning Super Bowls/playoffs.

 

[RobertWeathers]

rob: that throwing deep stuff is overrated. Before Brady became the GOAT...the talk was always but...but he can't throw the deep ball. Brees wasn't gifted with a cannon arm but he's as accurate as they come. And like Brady he can hit Cooks if he gets open deep.

Cooks disagrees.

Look- you are painting Cooks out to be the bad guy and that's ********. Payton and that organization hasn't exactly been winning 12 games every year. Quite frankly, they've sucked up until this year. They had problems with him and he had problems with them. That's it. It happens

 

[RayClay]

Quasi-interesting factoid ...

After his first 45 regular season games, and a couple months after his 25th birthday, Wilfork had posted 3.5 sacks and 146 total tackles.

After his first 44 regular season games, and about a month before his 24th birthday, Brown has posted 8.5 sacks and 145 total tackles.

Different roles in different schemes, but it's not as if Brown has been a slacker.

How many interceptions does he have?
Just kidding. I've never complained about Brown,DT is a tough job in our system. Wilfork had to adjust his technique before he became worth a damn. He was standing to close to the line.