Florio: Browns laying foundation for trade down (Garrett not their sure #1)

[Simpelton]

We have a winner! I KNEW someone(s) here would equal the Matt Cassel fantasy of 2 #1s for an unproven Patriots QB.

Garoppolo is as good of a prospective starter as there is in the league right now. If you don't have a starting quarterback you trust, you're interested in Garoppolo.

These draftniks who expect the world on a plate for him in terms of draft picks are probably going to be disappointed in the return if he is traded. I really think these offers floating around are a result of Belichick throwing ridiculous prices around to scare off anyone who's not totally serious. I don't think 2 firsts is realistic considering the short time the team would have Garoppolo under control, and a trade with a conditional extension is probably going to cost less in terms of picks.

Since, while I believe we absolutely must keep an open mind, I fully believe Brady won't ACTUALLY decline on a favorable timetable for Garoppolo plans, I think he will be traded, either now or in the near future. For G's own sake I'm really hoping he winds up in a better place than Cleveland. My personal preference would be for him to wind up in Houston somehow. The Texan franchise needs a good quarterback and are in a position to treat Garoppolo right. And he'd probably be able to make that franchise one of the most respectable in the NFL if he lives up to his promise.

 

[Ross12]

IMO trading down is the wiser move in this draft. Whoever they like at #5 plus another second rounder is probably a better value than JUST the guy they would take at #1.

They may also (just conjecture here) want to trade down a few spots to gain a second that they can package for NE so they would be able to keep more of the picks they already have.

 

[slam]

The number one pick in the draft for a QB who has played a game and a half is insane. And you want more on top of that? I know fans overrate their own players and prospect, but that's just ridiculous.

Teams spend the #1 pick of the draft on QBs who have played zero NFL games regularly.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

I'm always weary of these guys you never heard of until the combine.....

But if he can't face criticism, what else can't he face?

Mike Mamula Syndrome...........

 

[50-yard-line]

The number one pick in the draft for a QB who has played a game and a half is insane. And you want more on top of that? I know fans overrate their own players and prospect, but that's just ridiculous.

If Garoppolo plays 10 snaps this year and hits the FA market next year, he'll command north of 14m AAV - well north. Probably 17+.

There's three years of preseason tape on him, showing mechanics, progress, and development, and then, when it counted, he went on the road to Arizona and beat them, then obliterated Miami in one half of football.

I'd sure as hell trade the #1 for him than use it to draft any of the guys coming out this year.

You know what's most overrated? Draft picks.

Jadeveon Clowney is into Year 4 of his rookie contracts and has registered 10.5 sacks. And he's 7m against the cap this year.

He'll probably blossom this year, if he can stay healthy, then get his option picked up for big bucks, then command ridiculous money after next year as a UFA.

There's your surest #1 pick since Andrew Luck.

Meanwhile, Derek Carr is one of the rare college QBs of late to blossom into a more-than-capable QB and look at his value to the Raiders - easy to see, since we all witnessed what happened to that contender when he broke his leg.

JJ Watt might be the best defensive player of this era...count his rings.

QB is everything.

 

[moosekill]

The Browns already have too many picks/second year players. This isn't baseball where you can stock your minor leagues. The last thing they need is lots more rookies coming in. The best move they can possibly make is to package a bunch of picks and get better players, not trade their better picks to get lots more picks.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

The stupid continues in this thread. Trade JAG to Houston because you believe in his ability And think it will make Houston great???
Obviously Not A Pats Fan!!!

 

[reflexblue]

Sounds like the #1 is actually on the table now but is Jimmy?

Its hard for me to belive that BB will go into this draft with no 1st and 2nd rnd picks, it will kill him to watch all the talent come off the board and not be able to have a pick.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

The Browns already have too many picks/second year players. This isn't baseball where you can stock your minor leagues. The last thing they need is lots more rookies coming in. The best move they can possibly make is to package a bunch of picks and get Garoppolo, not trade their better picks to get lots more picks.

FTFY.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Its hard for me to belive that BB will go into this draft with no 1st and 2nd rnd picks, it will kill him to watch all the talent come off the board and not be able to have a pick.

I have to assume he knew that at the time he made those trades.

 

[Ring 6]

Teams spend the #1 pick of the draft on QBs who have played zero NFL games regularly.

Playing zero NFL games because you have been playing in college is very different than playing a game and a half and sitting the rest of 3 years.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Garrett put up a huge red flag the other day when Booger McFarland was subbing for Golic on Mike and Mike. Garrett was scheduled to come on, and he cancelled when he learned that McFarland was co-hosting. Apparently McFarland has been critical of Garrett in the past. After Garrett cancelled, McFarland compared him to Jamarcus Russell and Mike Muluaga. McFarland said if you watch him on tape, he doesn't play hard, doesn't like contact.....

I'm always weary of these guys you never heard of until the combine.....

But if he can't face criticism, what else can't he face?

Except Garrett has been the projected #1 pick for over two years now. He has the production, work ethic, and athleticism to be the best defensive player in the NFL. I have no idea where the "doesn't play hard," or "doesn't like contact" criticism comes from. I've watched tons of his tape. He's a slam dunk #1 pick, not a Combine wonder or a new kid on the block. He's nothing like Russell.

He's a great run defender, and he uses a bull rush as often as he uses a speed rush. I'll clip a few plays from a highlight reel, because I don't feel like going back through the dozen+ games I've watched to find examples of what I'm talking about.





Lines up inside at times, and fights through multiple blocks:

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Playing zero NFL games because you have been playing in college is very different than playing a game and a half and sitting the rest of 3 years.

You are correct. Much riskier to draft a quarterback.

List of 1st Round Quarterback Selections, Since 2010

Andrew Luck (1)
Cam Newton (1)
Jameis Winston (1)
Sam Bradford (1)
Jared Goff (1)
Marcus Mariota (2)
Carson Wentz (2)
Blake Bortles (3)
Ryan Tannehill (8)
Jake Locker (8)
Blaine Gabbert (10)
Christian Ponder (12)
EJ Manuel (16)
Johnny Manziel (22)
Brandon Weeden (22)
Tim Tebow (25)
Paxton Lynch (26)
Teddy Bridgewater (32)

Clearly this shows when there are obvious, can't miss prospects, you want to draft them immediately. It's not surprising that the clear-cut top quarterbacks, which almost every scout said would be good (Luck, Newton, Bradford, Winston, Mariota) have been worth the gamble, although the jury is still out on the latter two, and Bradford is hard to evaluate due to injuries. Beyond the obvious blue chip prospects, though, pretty much whenever scouts have had big concerns but still used a first round pick, these guys have busted. Taking "the best available quarterback of the class" has led to some terrible results. The class of 2017 has huge question marks all around.

Notable Quarterback Selections, Since 2010

Just to show what a total crapshoot the draft is beyond the obvious can't miss quarterbacks:

Andy Dalton (2nd round, 35 overall)
Colin Kaepernick (2nd round, 36 overall)
Derek Carr (2nd round, 36 overall)
Mike Glennon (3rd round, 75 overall)
Russell Wilson (3rd round, 75 overall)
Kirk Cousins (4th round, 102 overall)
Dak Prescott (4th round, 135 overall)
Tyrod Taylor (6th round, 180 overall)
Trevor Siemian (7th round, 250 overall)

This has more to do with the volume of draft picks than anything else, and the idea that if you draft a ton of quarterbacks, some will pan out. Still, looking at the grades on all of these players, it further reinforces the concept that a lot of this is random, and the odds are against you. Three years of practice, an apprenticeship with Tom Brady and Bill Belichick, preseason and six quarters of regular season game film, all add up to a more likely chance of success.

 

[slam]

Playing zero NFL games because you have been playing in college is very different than playing a game and a half and sitting the rest of 3 years.

Garappolo has game tape of him shredding an NFC Conference Finalist from 2015 and an eventual 2016 playoff team.
Goff was drafted #1 last year without game tape of him successfully fielding a snap from under center and properly dropping back to throw.
Your statement is probably the current conventional wisdom, but the conventional wisdom is very wrong if that's the case. Jimmy G was good enough to be a 2nd round pick three years ago, and nothing he's done since should have diminished his value. I'd happily trade the #12 overall pick and next year's #1 for Jimmy, or the #1 overall. If the Pats are demanding more than that I'd have to hash it over with my scouting dept.

 

[ZoisKing]

I like the idea for the Browns. They're a heckuva lot farther away from contending than Garrett would get them. They need players everywhere.

Also, if they're intending to go all out for Garoppolo (who knows how real this is), then they can replenish the draft capitol somewhat by getting picks in return for the #1.

 

[signbabybrady]

Its hard for me to belive that BB will go into this draft with no 1st and 2nd rnd picks, it will kill him to watch all the talent come off the board and not be able to have a pick.

I tend to agree with you.

But keep in mind we have 2 3rd rd picks which could be used to go up into 2nd rd if someone is there BB really wants. Not hard to argue that Cooks will be better than anything we got at 32 so it's not like we're really hurting here.

Still I expect one of either Butler or Jimmy to get moved. But if not we are fine.

 

[reflexblue]

I tend to agree with you.

But keep in mind we have 2 3rd rd picks which could be used to go up into 2nd rd if someone is there BB really wants. Not hard to argue that Cooks will be better than anything we got at 32 so it's not like we're really hurting here.

Still I expect one of either Butler or Jimmy to get moved. But if not we are fine.

I agree, if we did nothing, just used the picks we have we'ed be fine. But i know it will drive me crazy not having a first or second round pick to watch the talent come off the board and not be able to do anything, never mind the people that are in charge of the draft. So i think something will happen, BB will trade butler or jimmy g. Just looking at who the pats are interviewing says something, why would you interview or attned the workout of a first rnd talent if you weren't thinking about being in a position to possibley draft that prospect? Its an opportunity cost.

 

[DW Toys]

Its hard for me to belive that BB will go into this draft with no 1st and 2nd rnd picks, it will kill him to watch all the talent come off the board and not be able to have a pick.

Cousins , The responses to this thread have been many.
Let me throw my two cents in.
Reasons for keeping JG:
1-Fall back if Brady gets hurt. Funny about that....Jimmy G was the one who got hurt in 1.5 games.
2-The League should have a new position for the Pro Bowl. All Pro "Clip Board Holder". Jimmy G is by far the best in the NFL! As Pats fans, we can all agree to that! Why would we want to trade the best in the League? As Adam Schefter. says....No amount of picks can pry this man loose from Foxborough!
3-BB Sees him as a Franchise QB....yeh...so? Does BB have someone who can do a "Tonya Harding" on TB12 to get Jimmy G on the field? Should we sabotage Brady's walker?
4-We got suckered by a 75 year old Diva Coach? We Drafted Brisett because BB's old mentor who is still "shopping for the groceries", told BB he should Draft him and we waste a 3rd rounder (why? cause we wanted to perhaps dangle Jimmy G out there as we knew we could not hold him for another couple years as "clip board guy").
So far...... perhaps the Pats view Brisett as "E.J.Manual-esque". Maybe at this stage BB is saying Mr. Parcells should consider "Meals on Wheels" instead of buying groceries.
So to summarize, let's throw the kid under the bus and brand him because someone who knows someone, who knows someone said the Pats think Brisett rots after not even a year in the Pats locker room.
Let me make a statement right now.....I think Brisset can be the "clip board holder" future for the Pats!
5-The Pats will still get something for Jimmy G in 2018....albeit that super valuable 3rd round comp. pick like we gave away Collins for.

The Reasons for Trading Jimmy G:
1-For the sake of the Country
2-For the sake of the Nation
3-For humanity itself?

Now seriously...BB is going cross country visiting and working out top of the Draft talent for many many days and hours as a big smoke screen? This was the same guy who lamented spending time celebrating the Super Bowl that he was falling behind in 2017 preparations.

Or I have heard this one too....Doing his due diligence in case those top picks falter in a few years and we can pick them up....

Or even better....We are investigating these players to know their abilities when they are Drafted by other Teams and we have to play them.

In my humble opinion, BB has a deal on the table right now for Jimmy G. Remember Jimmy G's hacked account? Right Mr. Yee...Opps!.

BB can pull the trigger any time. Why now? Closer to the Draft works too in case of a better offer as like when the Texans lost out on Romo.

Not sure BB wants to hurt JG's career by sending him to Cleveland (did not sweat sending Collins though!) or hurt the Pats by doing a deal with the Texans.

Trubisky, Watson and Kiser are 2nd Round and lower talent. Why are Teams reaching? It's funny, one of the rips on Trubisky is not enough games.

The say that on JG on not enough NFL tape but let me see Trubisky or any of these kid's, their NFL tape? What?..none. Only 17% by League average, the chance any of them are even serviceable. I think JG beats those odds.

Just picks? Why? Watt would look good here. Watt (back surgery) did not play much in 2016 and the Texans made the playoffs with a mediocre QB. They gave us a better game than the vaunted Steelers.

Maybe you could pry Watt. He's a great player but as someone astutely has said on this post...."0" Rings for himself or a Super Bowl for Houston because they have no QB.

I'd gamble on Watt and two first rounders. Billy O wanted Jimmy G in the Draft and would have taken him the top of Round Three and not BB scooped him up end of Round Two.....little known fact.
DW Toys

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Cousins , The responses to this thread have been many.
Let me throw my two cents in.
Reasons for keeping JG:
1-Fall back if Brady gets hurt. Funny about that....Jimmy G was the one who got hurt in 1.5 games.
2-The League should have a new position for the Pro Bowl. All Pro "Clip Board Holder". Jimmy G is by far the best in the NFL! As Pats fans, we can all agree to that! Why would we want to trade the best in the League? As Adam Schefter. says....No amount of picks can pry this man loose from Foxborough!
3-BB Sees him as a Franchise QB....yeh...so? Does BB have someone who can do a "Tonya Harding" on TB12 to get Jimmy G on the field? Should we sabotage Brady's walker?
4-We got suckered by a 75 year old Diva? We Drafted Brisett because BB's old mentor who is still "shopping for the groceries", told BB he should Draft him and we waste a 3rd rounder (why? cause we wanted to perhaps dangle Jimmy G out there as we knew we could not hold him for another couple years as "clip board guy").
So far...... perhaps the Pats view Brisett as "E.J.Manual-esque". Maybe at this stage BB is saying Mr. Parcells should consider "Meals on Wheels" instead of buying groceries.
So to summarize, let's throw the kid under the bus and brand him because someone who knows someone, who knows someone said the Pats think Brisett rots after not even a year in the Pats locker room.
Let me make a statement right now.....I think Brisset can be the "clip board holder" future for the Pats!
5-The Pats will still get something for Jimmy G in 2018....albeit that super valuable 3rd round comp. pick like we gave away Collins for.

As you've stated, Belichick views Garopollo as a franchise quarterback and does not want to part with him before they need to make a final decision in 2017/18. Brady's father made a reference to the situation and said it will end badly for Tom while citing Garopollo's development.

This, of course, was before Brady demonstrated a superhuman resistance to the aging process, which shows everything through a different lens.

I don't think you are necessarily wrong...I just think we shouldn't be shocked if the Patriots are considering a transition to Garopollo. There are too many unknowns to really go further than that or to put a likelihood on it. It appears the Patriots are passing on multiple first day picks to keep him; considering that, I highly doubt they have closed the door on his long-term role with the team or that they view him as a mere clipboard holder.

 

[BobDigital]

Garrett is a guy i am not super super high on. Should he go first? Yeah. Do I think he is a sure thing? No. I think he will be good but not a sure thing. Also other pass rushers in this draft might turn out to be better and it would not surprise me.

Trading down is clearly the best value. The top of this draft has issues.

Allen with his medical, Garrett with some off the field and competition questions. The only guy I feel like is 100% sure to be a probowler for years and years is Hooker.