Tom Brady, NFLPA Granted 14-Day Extension To File Motion For Rehearing By Second Circuit Court

[RobertWeathers]

This is a Felger type position. I haven't listened to Felger in quite awhile but I would not doubt that a lot of casual Patriots fans think "something happened but the punishment is overboard" because of listening to the Felgers of the world.

I still don't understand how the missing texts argument still holds water. Jas and McNally turned their phones over and it was demonstrated that Jas had documented correspondence with TB12 over footballs (that Goody manipulated into something else). Brady's two (?) missing texts were corroborated with Jas' texts. Brady turned over his text records to the NFL and identified who the recipients were and invited the NFL to contact these people. They chose not to. They had no reason. They had the story to fit their narrative.

If anything, the wiping of Brady's phone was in fact ill-advised (with all the hub-bub) but does not prove guilt. It only provides a foundation for suspicion.

 

[goheels22002]

I thought this particular functional relationship between pressure and temperature at constant volume (for an "ideal" gas) was Gay-Lussac's Law. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

[Galeb]

I still don't understand how the missing texts argument still holds water. Jas and McNally turned their phones over and it was demonstrated that Jas had documented correspondence with TB12 over footballs (that Goody manipulated into something else). Brady's two (?) missing texts were corroborated with Jas' texts. Brady turned over his text records to the NFL and identified who the recipients were and invited the NFL to contact these people. They chose not to. They had no reason. They had the story to fit their narrative.

If anything, the wiping of Brady's phone was in fact ill-advised (with all the hub-bub) but does not prove guilt. It only provides a foundation for suspicion.

If you cover one end of the straw you're grasping, it can hold a little bit of water.

 

[goheels22002]

bottom line: Since footballs are assumed to be constant volume, and they contain air, the physical chemistry of the footballs in the AFCCG was pretty much nailed by Guiles Amontons in 1700-1702.

Yeah, well, where the hell was Guiles Amontons when Tom Brady needed him? When is he going to man up and file an Amicus Curae? Huh? Guiles Amontons may be a big shot 18th century scientist, but he ain't no Bob Kraft![/QUOTE]

 

[IllegalContact]

Every NFL Player And Fan Should Be Rooting For Tom Brady's Deflategate Appeal...Yes, You

The NFL acts as if it’s above science and the law — and that’s unacceptable

 

[SalemPats]

I still don't understand how the missing texts argument still holds water. Jas and McNally turned their phones over and it was demonstrated that Jas had documented correspondence with TB12 over footballs (that Goody manipulated into something else). Brady's two (?) missing texts were corroborated with Jas' texts. Brady turned over his text records to the NFL and identified who the recipients were and invited the NFL to contact these people. They chose not to. They had no reason. They had the story to fit their narrative.

If anything, the wiping of Brady's phone was in fact ill-advised (with all the hub-bub) but does not prove guilt. It only provides a foundation for suspicion.

Not too mention that players/staff shouldn't have turn their PERSONAL phone over to their employers which seems illegal

 

[Tony2046]

I still don't understand how the missing texts argument still holds water. Jas and McNally turned their phones over and it was demonstrated that Jas had documented correspondence with TB12 over footballs (that Goody manipulated into something else). Brady's two (?) missing texts were corroborated with Jas' texts. Brady turned over his text records to the NFL and identified who the recipients were and invited the NFL to contact these people. They chose not to. They had no reason. They had the story to fit their narrative.

If anything, the wiping of Brady's phone was in fact ill-advised (with all the hub-bub) but does not prove guilt. It only provides a foundation for suspicion.

Deadspin covered this thoroughly.

http://deadspin.com/the-full-story-of-tom-bradys-destroyed-cell-phone-1722190784 (<<Link)

The NFL had the records of all phone calls and text messages.

Brady was able to obtain a log of all his phone calls and text messages, and since he had not changed phone numbers, this included calls and messages during the mysterious four-month gap. These were cross-referenced against communications listed in the Wells Report, and for the most part (with the exception of three missing texts) they matched, as Wells was given access to both Jastremski and McNally’s Patriots-supplied work phones. This is one of Brady’s strongest arguments that there are no missing damaging text messages: since Wells had access to Jastremski and McNally’s side of any damning conversations with Brady, why did he need Brady’s messages?

He provided all of his emails as well.

As for the emails Wells originally requested, Brady had more luck in finding these. On June 3 his forensic examiner catalogued all 5,317 emails Brady sent or received between Sept. 1, 2014 and March 1, 2015. These emails were searched for the following terms:

k-ball, kball, gage, air-pump, airpump, needle, pin, PSI, pounds per square inch, 12.5, bladder, McNally, Bird, 1 pound, 1 lb, one pound, one lb, 2 pound, 2 lb, two pound, two lb, gaug* [the * means that all variations of “gaug” were included, such as gauge, gauging, gauged etc.], pump*, inflat*, deflat*, (game OR kick*) ball ~2 [this means Brady’s emails were searched to see whether the words “game” or “kick*” were found within two words of “ball”], (prep* OR rub*) AND (ball OR football) ~10, (investigat* OR meet* OR discuss* OR question) AND (championship OR Jan* 18 OR 1/18), investigat* AND (ball OR football OR Ind* OR Colts) ~10, (equilib* OR atmosphere* OR climat* OR environment* OR test* OR experiment) AND (ball OR football) ~10

All the emails that came up in those searches were submitted as evidence in the ongoing suit, and we are still working our way through all of them (you can get a taste here). But from the forensic examiner’s report it seems like none of them were particularly relevant. For instance, the word bladder was found twice, both times referring to the human body, and the only time “one pound” was used was when discussing eating protein. A bunch of finance emails are included, as Brady discussed the economic concepts of deflation or inflation with others.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Deadspin covered this thoroughly.

http://deadspin.com/the-full-story-of-tom-bradys-destroyed-cell-phone-1722190784 (<<Link)

The NFL had the records of all phone calls and text messages.



He provided all of his emails as well.

Yep- Thanks. I swear this stuff is like studying for a test (which was a loooong time ago for me) on a book you've read. You take the test and then asked to take it again 6 months later when you've already forgotten the important details and need to read the book and study all over again.

 

[letekro]

What missing texts? They had everyone else's phone and records of every text Brady sent from his service provider.
Texts show up in both phones.

They did not have texts he sent to anyone other than the equipment guys. For example, texts to Garoppalo containing the word "deflate" or "psi" were requested, but not provided. Brady provided no texts from the phone that was in use during the period of the AFFCG. This is all laid out in the deadspin article that Tony quoted.

 

[letekro]

Deadspin covered this thoroughly.

http://deadspin.com/the-full-story-of-tom-bradys-destroyed-cell-phone-1722190784 (<<Link)

The NFL had the records of all phone calls and text messages.



He provided all of his emails as well.

But he didn't provide all relevant text messages. Why can we not just accept that fact here?

 

[Ring 6]

They did not have texts he sent to anyone other than the equipment guys. For example, texts to Garoppalo containing the word "deflate" or "psi" were requested, but not provided. Brady provided no texts from the phone that was in use during the period of the AFFCG. This is all laid out in the deadspin article that Tony quoted.

come on that is ridiculous.
Now you want to use not having the texts as not being able to build a case because maybe he sent a text to someone about something?
He gave them access to a list every text he sent. If there were texts to garapolo they could have asked garapolo
Someone is not guilty because you can invent some type of circumstances that can't be dismissed because they are made up and by definition unable to disprove.

 

[Ivan]

And around and around we go. But but but but...........


Ted Wells told Brady he did not need his phone. End of f.cking story and end to the complete bullsh.t story that there is some mystery text to some unknown individual. Leterko is simply making the unmakeable argument that unless Brady can somehow account for every idiotic variation of how he could possibly be guilty then he is guilty. Brady has to somehow prove innocence to every possible version of reality. It's complete and utter bullsh.t trolling.


But but but what if Brady told Hernandez to threaten MacNally and Odin Lloyd found out and Hernandez killed him to keep quiet about, what about those texts?

Well leterko they don't exist.


How do we know that, he never showed those texts?


That's because they don't exist.




Prove it?!



,................................

 

[Ring 6]

But he didn't provide all relevant text messages. Why can we not just accept that fact here?

Yes he did
He testified under oath that there were no other relevant text messages.

 

[letekro]

So to sum up leterkos position:

The science proves nothing.

The real proof is in the missing texts.

The NFL didn't defame Brady.

And Brady's reputation suffered no damage.

No, Ivan.

One of my points, reiterated countless times, is that the text messages don't prove anything by any legal standard (not even preponderance of the evidence). So, when you say "the real proof" is in the text messages you are misstating my position by implying that I think something nefarious was proven. It wasn't, in my opinion. Goodell, not I, took the position that it was proven and that is why we are now in the Second Circuit.

I did speak a little bit out of school on the defamation issue. It is not really an area of the law I am familiar with. It seems like an extraordinarily tough case given that he is a public figure and that all of the statements against him are couched in opinion type language. Again, the losing party in an arbitration or case doesn't sue the arbitrator or judge because that person reached a conclusion that the losing party disagrees with.

 

[RobertWeathers]

They did not have texts he sent to anyone other than the equipment guys. For example, texts to Garoppalo containing the word "deflate" or "psi" were requested, but not provided. Brady provided no texts from the phone that was in use during the period of the AFFCG. This is all laid out in the deadspin article that Tony quoted.

To be specific, Wells never asked specifically for text conversations with Jimmy G.

Brady was not turning over the content of the texts, but was willing to assist Wells in his investigation. We all know Wells was casting a wide net for the purpose of creating a favorable narrative for the NFL.

Wells and the NFL could have easily queried the individuals but chose not to. They already had what they needed

But he didn't provide all relevant text messages. Why can we not just accept that fact here?

Granted. 3 were missing...........but so what?

What does that prove and how does is support Goodell's decision? The absence of evidence is not evidence.

 

[Ivan]

No, Ivan.

One of my points, reiterated countless times, is that the text messages don't prove anything by any legal standard (not even preponderance of the evidence). So, when you say "the real proof" is in the text messages you are misstating my position by implying that I think something nefarious was proven. It wasn't, in my opinion. Goodell, not I, took the position that it was proven and that is why we are now in the Second Circuit.

I did speak a little bit out of school on the defamation issue. It is not really an area of the law I am familiar with. It seems like an extraordinarily tough case given that he is a public figure and that all of the statements against him are couched in opinion type language. Again, the losing party in an arbitration or case doesn't sue the arbitrator or judge because that person reached a conclusion that the losing party disagrees with.

I do think that's exactly what you have been arguing.



As for defamation he should go after ESPN for their lies and that will catch the whole lot of them conspiring to slime Bradys name. That brings in Kensil and Pash and opens up the Mortenson story they deliberately left up despite knowing it was false, and that proves the malice needed to make the case.

 

[letekro]

Yes he did
He testified under oath that there were no other relevant text messages.

Wrong again. Unlike you, I have read the underlying materials in this case.

Here is Brady's testimony on this point at the Appeal Hearing. Again, for context, Brady turned over several phones for forensic imaging (so the privacy excuse is BS), but, failed to turn over the one that was active during and around the AFCCG, because he had disposed of it. That phone, discussed below, contained over 9,900 text messages:

Q. And directing your attention to that gap period again from November 6, 2014, through March 5th of 2015, do you know whether anyone has reviewed those messages to determine whether there were any messages referring to the deflation of footballs or other topics that are responsive to the Paul, Weiss requests?

Brady: If someone reviewed those?

Reissner: Do you know whether anyone has been able to review those messages to determine whether there are any messages referring to the deflation of footballs or other topics responsive to the Paul, Weiss requests?

Brady: No.

 

[Ivan]

Brady disposed of the single item with the greatest bearing on the truth of the NFL's statements and he is going to get a court to order discovery on the NFL?

If this isn't saying "the truth is in the phone" then nothing is.

 

[Tony2046]

They did not have texts he sent to anyone other than the equipment guys. For example, texts to Garoppalo containing the word "deflate" or "psi" were requested.

It's a given that the phone issue is a thorn in Brady's case. My question to you is, did the NFL want to know the truth about the phone and its records or did they think, "Jackpot" we now have the mother of all PR hits with this?

They had the phone logs. IIRC it had about 9 or 10 thousand individual logs. IF they were searching for answers could they not have correlated all similar numbers and do a little research? They did not even try to contact one number.

Secondly, why did Roger mischaracterize Brady's appeal testimony. Why did the NFL release that the NFLPA wanted to keep the appeal transcripts confidential? Why were we privileged to witness months of Ex Football players tossing around deflated footballs while erroneously stating that they had never played with a deflated football? Because that was a part of the PR smear campaign.

Were they searching for the truth? No. They admittedly did not know about the IGL and when they found out it was too late to reverse the "Patriots cheated again" train around.

If Roger said "we got it wrong and didn't know about the IGL" he would have taken a huge hit and given what he had just endured PR wise through the Ray Rice case he could not afford it.

Take a quick read through the appeal transcripts. They were searching for two things. PR bumper sticker quotes and a "cover their ass" storyline.

The Phone was his golden ticket. He was not going to research the phone logs because he didn't want to know. He wanted the PR.

 

[Ivan]

Brady disposed of the single item with the greatest bearing on the truth of the NFL's statements and he is going to get a court to order discovery on the NFL? Get real. Never mind the lack of damages, which you circumvent above by creating an alternative universe where Brady is dropped by sponsors.

The whole thing is patently absurd. The Wells Report is a product of Paul Weiss, not the NFL, and, irrespective of that, doesn't contain a single lie that could form the basis of a defamation suit. Goodell's ruling is the opinion of an arbitrator.

The WELLS REPORT was edited by Jeffrey Pash and is absolutely a product of the NFL, they admitted to Berman's Court that it wasn't independent and claimed it was work product of their lawyers when Bradys team asked for access. Apparently you and Goodell are the last two people on earth who think it was independent.