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Why I think Kraft caved in.


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But saying he couldn't win is just an excuse for what he did. There is no way to know what would have happened, and if Kraft put a commissioner in place, and continues to support him, hell supported him that day, that would listen to a compelling argument that Wells was wrong and tell Kraft he still has to take it up the @ss even though they did nothing, then Kraft is a bigger moron than I ever thought.
Bingo. Apparently there is nothing in this world that will deter Kraft from getting the shafteroo, if the POS and his fraternity brothers tell him it is for the good of the League. The facts didn't matter in 2007, the facts didn't matter in the Rice fiasco and the facts don't matter now. I can understand him grudgingly accepting the penalty from the POS for financial reasons but I can't forgive the pathetic display of supplication as he all but welcomed the punishment as his price for belonging.
 
You keep stacking the deck of your argument with the 'fact' that the hearing would be rigged. That is not known, and I and others have listed many reasons that it is not a certainty at all.


The one who gave the punishment can decide if it's fair without answering to any other party . Even in
Russia, they attempt to make legal decisions look more legitimate than that.
 
The one who gave the punishment can decide if it's fair without answering to any other party . Even in
Russia, they attempt to make legal decisions look more legitimate than that.
Then ironically Kraft by his unstinting support of the POS gets it in his rear once again hugging the POS
 
But saying he couldn't win is just an excuse for what he did. There is no way to know what would have happened, and if Kraft put a commissioner in place, and continues to support him, hell supported him that day, that would listen to a compelling argument that Wells was wrong and tell Kraft he still has to take it up the @ss even though they did nothing, then Kraft is a bigger moron than I ever thought.


Roger Goodell is usually wrong, he was wrong on the Saints, wrong on Ray Rice, wrong on "Spygate" and wrong on this idiotic issue. He claims he sanctioned the penalties and agreed with them but will reconsider when the Patriots are ripping Wells and the league office a new one? The report found that the team and coach did nothing wrong, so they fine them a million dollars and take a first and a fourth, and Goodell clearly signed off on that, why would he reduce it?

You're right that we can't know when it never happened but I believe the outcome was predetermined but don't think that was ever the point, the point was to show the report for what it is, dogsh.t. Goodell would have to invalidate the findings of a report he swears by, and I don't think he would ever do that, especially when he paid 5 million of owners money to pay for it. In fact, to this day he claims it was an independent report. Lmao- does that sound like someone to trust?

I would have cheered Kraft for fighting it out even though they lost, but throwing everyone under the bus is something I will never respect. I wouldn't boo him or scream at him if I were at a game but that doesn't change the fact that I think he should step down and away from the team. That won't happen either but I still think it would be best for them.
 
Then ironically Kraft by his unstinting support of the POS gets it in his rear once again hugging the POS
Unironically going along to get along has cost BB/Brady a ton. Maybe Bob is the best case in the current NFL, but it's a shame that crooked officiating has been a part of parity in the league.
 
The greedy as.shole should have attempted to push Goodell out when literally the entire country wanted his blood after the Ray Rice fiasco. But I bet he never even considered it for one single second.
 
The one who gave the punishment can decide if it's fair without answering to any other party . Even in
Russia, they attempt to make legal decisions look more legitimate than that.
Yes, we all understand the process. But it is not an appeal to Wells, it is an appeal to the Commissioner of the league.
Goodell sought an outside investigation, and when he received it he rules, based on it. There is nothing else to base his ruling on. If the team objects to the investigation and its conclusions, then it presents its case to Goodell.

Your attitude assumes that if they proved beyond any doubt that the conclusions of the Wells report were wrong, and there was no guilt whatsoever that Goodell would ignore it all because he has some vengence to extract on the Patriots, and will unethically and immorally penalize them even if they prove they are innocent.
If your assumption is correct, then Kraft is a total moron for allowing Goodell to remain in power as someone who is bias against and has a vendetta against him team to the point where being accused means he will be penalized.

Again, Goodell publicly stated that he welcomed Brady bringing information that refutes the Wells report. Its OK for Brady, but if Kraft did, Goodell would put his fingers in his ears?
 
Roger Goodell is usually wrong, he was wrong on the Saints, wrong on Ray Rice, wrong on "Spygate" and wrong on this idiotic issue. He claims he sanctioned the penalties and agreed with them but will reconsider when the Patriots are ripping Wells and the league office a new one? The report found that the team and coach did nothing wrong, so they fine them a million dollars and take a first and a fourth, and Goodell clearly signed off on that, why would he reduce it?
He wouldn't unless the appeal showed the Wells report was wrong and flawed, which of course it would have.
Goodell hired Wells to investigate the Patriots. Wells found them guilty. Of course Goodell accepted the report. He delegated the investigation to Wells. That doesn't mean Goodell is obligated to the Wells report if the accused does a good job of proving it was wrong. Of course that is an uphill battle, because Wells who theoretically has no bias, will get the benefit of the doubt, but to imply that if the Patriots walked in with an astonishing case that blew the Wells report of the water, Goodell would just ignore it is silly.
But this line of argument assumes that Robert Kraft believes that if he walked in and proved beyond any doubt that they were innocent his man would tell him to go f off. If that were the case the Kraft is even more pathetic.

You're right that we can't know when it never happened but I believe the outcome was predetermined but don't think that was ever the point, the point was to show the report for what it is, dogsh.t. Goodell would have to invalidate the findings of a report he swears by, and I don't think he would ever do that, especially when he paid 5 million of owners money to pay for it. In fact, to this day he claims it was an independent report. Lmao- does that sound like someone to trust?
Again, this is the hyperbole that makes this discussion ridiculous. How does Goodell 'swear by' the report? Any person in any organization who hires an independent investigator that they believe is beyond reproach will take their findings as the word, unless and until they are rebutted. Making a website with explanations is not rebutting, and Goodell was never asked to consider that. This is the key. We all read the solid rebuttal, but Kraft chose to not give it to Goodell.

I would have cheered Kraft for fighting it out even though they lost, but throwing everyone under the bus is something I will never respect. I wouldn't boo him or scream at him if I were at a game but that doesn't change the fact that I think he should step down and away from the team. That won't happen either but I still think it would be best for them.
His idea of best for the team and everyone else involved with the team in any capacity, not named Kraft, is very different. This is why it is frustrating when people defend what he did because he did what was in the best interest of Bob Kraft, and it was not in the best interest of BB, TB the other players and coaches, and the fans. Bob could have taken one for the team, and sacrificed something that was only good for him in his personal (not business because it would have had zero impact) relationship with 31 other billionaires. He chose them over the players, coaches and fans. He has the right to do that because he owns the team, but by God after he slapped you in the face, don't excuse him and say he had no choice because you were standing near him.
 
Goodell contempt of court hearing set for August 13
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...-of-court-hearing-set-for-august-13/#comments

"The NFLPA contends that Doty’s order required the arbitration ruling confirming Peterson’s suspension to be vacated and sent back to arbitrator Harold Henderson for further proceedings — probably because that’s what the order expressly says. The NFL apparently believes that it was not required to comply with those provisions because it promptly appealed the decision from Judge Doty. However, the NFL did not file a motion with Judge Doty or the appeals court seeking a stay of the operation of the ruling pending appeal."


At some point soon the owners are going to have to admit Goodell isn't good for the long term success of the league.
 
Goodell contempt of court hearing set for August 13 However, the NFL did not file a motion with Judge Doty or the appeals court seeking a stay of the operation of the ruling pending appeal."

At some point soon the owners are going to have to admit Goodell isn't good for the long term success of the league.
For a multibillion dollar operation, they often do some awfully stupid stuff. They can afford the best lawyers and either they are ignoring their advice or not using them....Do they think they are above the law (literally) and don't have to comply with a Federal order or need to file the appropriate motion with the court?
 
Andy, you are apparently so desperate for an argument that you are trying to act like I'm defending Kraft when I have done nothing of the sort and in fact have been very critical of what he did. My advice to you is to go find someone who is defending him, like rayclay,and argue with them, I'm not interested. Have fun talking to yourself. Actually, make that ... Have fun arguing with yourself.
 
Andy, you are apparently so desperate for an argument that you are trying to act like I'm defending Kraft when I have done nothing of the sort and in fact have been very critical of what he did. My advice to you is to go find someone who is defending him, like rayclay,and argue with them, I'm not interested. Have fun talking to yourself. Actually, make that ... Have fun arguing with yourself.
Why would me stating my opinion imply you are defending Kraft?
My comment was off of your comment to someone defending him, Ray Clay.

I'm not sure why you feelings are so hurt.
Perhaps you should take a break.
 
I've been wondering about that.... The best leaders are able to get the fanatics to fight their battles for them. Not that Bob Kraft would do this, but I wonder about this scenario with Jonathan: Brady and NFLPA wind up taking Goodell to court because he won't fully overturn Bracy's suspension. Injunction issued, and by next February an arbiter winds up completely overturning Brady's ruling due to lack of evidence. Next step: in FA in 2016, the Patriots offer a mega contract to a Franchise Player or to an RFA with a 1st round tender, and that player signs it. NFL rejects the contract as they say the Patriots have no first round pick for compensation so they can't make the offer. Well, now this has moved into the NFLPA's domain - the league discipline has now directly impacted one of its members. So then NFLPA sues on behalf of its player, using lack of evidence victory from earlier as part of its arguments.

Not bloody likely, but would be a way to have someone else - a fanatic - fight your fight for you with potentially a better shot at winning.
I could be wrong but I believe if we signed a franchise player we just have to give up the following years pick.
 
I agree with anyone who thinks the outcome would have been predetermined but I disagree that Kraft should have caved because of it. What mattered was the ground the Patriots were making by exposing the Wells Report for the piece of garbage that it was, and by hammering away publicly, it was raising new questions and keeping those raised in the news, that's why Kraft said he wanted to "end the rhetoric" that he felt was damaging " the shield, " and pissing off his billionaire buddies. Regardless of the predetermined outcome Kraft should have gone down swinging and not folded to stay in good standing with the billionaires boys club. Unfortunately his membership in that club mattered more to him than the reputation of his franchise or QB.

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This was about the team and it's fans, but Kraft thought it was all about him, legal advice played no role in his decision because we all knew they would lose in court because the owners gave that power away. When Kraft said it was " time to stop the rhetoric " he was talking about the team taking shots at the Wells Report and criticizing the league office, I.e... Unilateral surrender so he could be allowed back in the treehouse. It was a stupid and selfish move and it cost him the support of most of their fan base, and rightfully so.
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No one expected a fair hearing however the Patriots were on the offensive and getting traction as The Wells Report was being shredded on a daily basis, and whether they lost the appeal or not keeping the light on just how biased and factually wrong the Wells Report was, and just how dishonest and corrupt the league office is was the right thing for this franchise to keep doing, folding the way Kraft did essentially destroyed that momentum and made the Patriots look guilty of something they are innocent of. Kraft should have treated Goodell as though he were dead to him and made it clear he would be doing everything in whatever power he had to take his job away from him.

I'm 100% opposed to people going to Gillette at any time and hurling obscenities at Kraft or booing him, I think it would be childish, classless, and bad for team morale, that doesn't however change the fact that what he did was bad for his team and fans and that he has shown enough poor judgment to step down as team president.

I truly hope that the Kraft's understand the mood in New England enough to not have Robert Kraft front and center at the raising of the banner, because that unfortunately could turn into a really ugly scene. A better approach would be to make Bruschi the master of ceremonies, bring back a bunch of all time great Patriots and have Brady be the one to hoist the banner when that time comes. The Kraft's should stay quiet and stay in the owners box.
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1) Because I was obviously joking.

2) Because the Patriots weren't just appealing they were shredding the Wells Report and league office on a daily basis and making them look every bit as corrupt as they actually are, and since Kraft was the one publicly telling everyone to get behind Goodell and shut up he was looking like a complete hypocrite to the other owners. Kraft wants his legacy to be the man who saved football and decided screwing his teams and fans was preferable to being an outcast owner.

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The ironic thing is that the more Kraft grovels before Goodell and his partners the less respect they have for him. They have absolutely no compunction shafting him because in the end they know he will cave. They wouldn't dare do it to Bisciotti because he would stand up for his team and players. He even lied to Goodell in the Rice fiasco and wasn't punished. Quite a difference from the Pudgy Putz.
 
You keep stacking the deck of your argument with the 'fact' that the hearing would be rigged. That is not known, and I and others have listed many reasons that it is not a certainty at all.

One reason goodell could be prevented by anyone from just saying no.
 
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