To all the "Kraft is cheap" "we need Vjax" "trade for Fitzgerald/Johnson" folks

[Deus Irae]

We need the absolute best receivers, like Denver. Boy did they light us up for making the mistake of spending on cornerbacks.

Who's said that spending money on CBs was a mistake?

 

[supafly]

The Patriots had no problems rolling up a 20-3 halftime lead in Miami.

The hobbled Defensive players attempting Iron-Man performances without relief, in the Summer Heat was responsible for that loss, IMHO.

It was actually 20-10 at the half, but I definitely agree that the heat had something to do with it for sure. Not only that, but the fact that these so-called "easy divisional games" are rarely easy, especially on the road.

It seems as though many here take those games for granted, based on the fact that we win very often, but in my opinion, you can never overlook the divisional games. Thankfully, we've dominated recently, but as a fan--I have no problem with the loss down at MIA, aside from "how" it happened.

I think many here (myself included on some lesser level) were overreacting after the KC game, due to the fact that we really got throttled, and the first 4 games saw very little offensive output. The reality was that they worked hard to overcome their communication problems, people stepped up, and they are riding a nice wave of momentum that hopefully will continue. Either way, they look much more like the team we all expected to see, and that's wonderful.

 

[ausbacker]

It was actually 20-10 at the half, but I definitely agree that the heat had something to do with it for sure. Not only that, but the fact that these so-called "easy divisional games" are rarely easy, especially on the road.

It seems as though many here take those games for granted, based on the fact that we win very often, but in my opinion, you can never overlook the divisional games. Thankfully, we've dominated recently, but as a fan--I have no problem with the loss down at MIA, aside from "how" it happened.

I think many here (myself included on some lesser level) were overreacting after the KC game, due to the fact that we really got throttled, and the first 4 games saw very little offensive output. The reality was that they worked hard to overcome their communication problems, people stepped up, and they are riding a nice wave of momentum that hopefully will continue. Either way, they look much more like the team we all expected to see, and that's wonderful.

You only have to look at the NFC West to see the difficulty in divisional games. St.Louis has beaten Seattle at home and San Francisco away in the past 3 weeks. Sandwiched in between those victories was a crushing defeat in Kansas City. That's divisional football for you.

 

[RayClay]

Who's said that spending money on CBs was a mistake?

I'm being sarcastic and using hyperbole.

When the "we need weapons"arguments start it's always more receivers or RBs, and these days not even RBs.

I'm not going to post a dozen "We need to get Brady weapons in his window now" type threads, but you know I could and it's always big name expensive receivers.

 

[Snake Eyes]

All you need to do is trade away all your picks and push the cap hits to the future and you can have both! Let future you or whoever replaces you worry about the mess that creates! The cap is crap! Just look how well it worked for the Jets.

I think their problem is that they've had clowns at QB.

 

[ausbacker]

I'm being sarcastic and using hyperbole.

When the "we need weapons"arguments start it's always more receivers or RBs, and these days not even RBs.

I'm not going to post a dozen "We need to get Brady weapons in his window now" type threads, but you know I could and it's always big name expensive receivers.

Color me in the I wanted V-Jax boat. I was/am of the opinion that the Patriots need a reliable outside receiving threat to blow the top off a defense. Against the Broncos, Brandon LaFell is beginning to become everything we could wish for in a low cost, productive free agent acquisition. He showed me he can blow the top off of coverage. If Brady throws a ball that is 1 percent better, he pulls in a long touchdown.

Once again, Belichick showed me (us) why he's in the argument for greatest coach of all time and why we're fans. I had Patricia and McDaniels out the door 6 weeks ago. Now look at them! Reasonable game plans being executed. How sweet it is to be wrong!

 

[RayClay]

Color me in the I wanted V-Jax boat. I was/am of the opinion that the Patriots need a reliable outside receiving threat to blow the top off a defense. Against the Broncos, Brandon LaFell is beginning to become everything we could wish for in a low cost, productive free agent acquisition. He showed me he can blow the top off of coverage. If Brady throws a ball that is 1 percent better, he pulls in a long touchdown.

Once again, Belichick showed me (us) why he's in the argument for greatest coach of all time and why we're fans. I had Patricia and McDaniels out the door 6 weeks ago. Now look at them! Reasonable game plans being executed. How sweet it is to be wrong!

Also, we have two guys on the bench who are capable of blowing the top of the defense when necessary. Dobson may be hurt or lost confidence, but you can't twll me teams haven't looked at The amount of incredible long ball catches per attempt Tyms has had if they put him in the game.

The bottom line is, no matter how many big name expensive receivers you acquire, Brady can only throw one ball per pass play. And guys that put up incredible stats often are ball hogs who pout when they aren't getting the lion's share of looks in an offense and that is going to happen here, a game plan offense, against certain teams.

There's nothing worse than having a big name high salaried player complaining he's not used enough, or fighting the system designed to spread the ball around, except when it's oucho cinco where we would have been better to just cut his ass.

We're the 2nd highest scoring team (after the Colts put up 40) with Gronk, LaFell and Edelman and we have two deep threats and Amendola who could possibly contribute as the long season goes on. How horrible.

 

[ausbacker]

Also, we have two guys on the bench who are capable of blowing the top of the defense when necessary. Dobson may be hurt or lost confidence, but you can't twll me teams haven't looked at The amount of incredible long ball catches per attempt Tyms has had if they put him in the game.

The bottom line is, no matter how many big name expensive receivers you acquire, Brady can only throw one ball per pass play. And guys that put up incredible stats often are ball hogs who pout when they aren't getting the lion's share of looks in an offense and that is going to happen here, a game plan offense, against certain teams.

There's nothing worse than having a big name high salaried player complaining he's not used enough, or fighting the system designed to spread the ball around, except when it's oucho cinco where we would have been better to just cut his ass.

We're the 2nd highest scoring team (after the Colts put up 40) with Gronk, LaFell and Edelman and we have two deep threats and Amendola who could possibly contribute as the long season goes on. How horrible.

I continue to believe Aaron Dobson has the ability to become something special for New England. For whatever reason, that hasn't come to fruition yet. That said, I do agree that he has the wheels to blow the top off coverage. He also has size. Gronkowski, Wright, LaFell, Dobson and Edelman is a nice Red Zone unit.

The thing with New England is, despite all the gaudy numbers, I still think they have room for major improvement and on both sides of the ball. That is a scary notion when only 6 weeks ago, I was unsure what direction this team was headed in. Let's hope the upward trajectory continues because their remaining opponents will all be tough outs.

 

[Oswlek]

Color me in the I wanted V-Jax boat. I was/am of the opinion that the Patriots need a reliable outside receiving threat to blow the top off a defense. Against the Broncos, Brandon LaFell is beginning to become everything we could wish for in a low cost, productive free agent acquisition. He showed me he can blow the top off of coverage. If Brady throws a ball that is 1 percent better, he pulls in a long touchdown.

Once again, Belichick showed me (us) why he's in the argument for greatest coach of all time and why we're fans. I had Patricia and McDaniels out the door 6 weeks ago. Now look at them! Reasonable game plans being executed. How sweet it is to be wrong!

Ha!

The "deep threat" is one of the most overused and overrated terms. It is at least as important (and I'd argue much more) to stretch a team horizontally than it is vertically. That was the real problem of late, that teams didn't feel the need to focus much attention outside the numbers, particularly when the guy who all other inside routes keyed off of was missing. Lloyd was probably their biggest outside thread since Moss, and he was terrible. Good hands, but no YAC and there was no need for any safety help because no one feared he'd get past the DB. His asset was catching in traffic, not breaking ankles.

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm being sarcastic and using hyperbole.

When the "we need weapons"arguments start it's always more receivers or RBs, and these days not even RBs.

I'm not going to post a dozen "We need to get Brady weapons in his window now" type threads, but you know I could and it's always big name expensive receivers.

So you're being sarcastic and using hyperbole about a position that's been an issue all season, and could obviously need an upgrade, because people were pointing it out?

Fascinating.

 

[Deus Irae]

Ha!

The "deep threat" is one of the most overused and overrated terms. It is at least as important (and I'd argue much more) to stretch a team horizontally than it is vertically. That was the real problem of late, that teams didn't feel the need to focus much attention outside the numbers, particularly when the guy who all other inside routes keyed off of was missing. Lloyd was probably their biggest outside thread since Moss, and he was terrible. Good hands, but no YAC and there was no need for any safety help because no one feared he'd get past the DB. His asset was catching in traffic, not breaking ankles.

Ehh..... People use "Deep threat" when they often are referring to someone who can legitimately threaten a defense in the middle-deep portion of the field, particularly outside the hash marks. And such a player is certainly not overrated, as we've seen year after year, after year.

 

[ThatllMoveTheChains!!!]

I think their problem is that they've had clowns at QB.

That certainly was the issue during their "run". I'd say they have a few other issues right now.

 

[patfanken]

Ehh..... People use "Deep threat" when they often are referring to someone who can legitimately threaten a defense in the middle-deep portion of the field, particularly outside the hash marks. And such a player is certainly not overrated, as we've seen year after year, after year.

What do you mean by "as we've seen over the years". In reality what we've seen over the years are the great majority of the top WR's NOT being in the playoffs (10 of 12 last season). Has having a great WR helped at Detroit, Atlanta, or the Cardinals to date. Has having a superior WR won the Bengals any playoff games. Mike Wallace is the epitome of what you desire, yet what did his presence to for the Phins last year. So how much of an effect does having a great WR actually mean to an offense? . Last season with a really flawed WR group the Pats were tied for second in the league in scoring. But I guess putting points on the board means little to you in your FF world.

Then we have the issue of Vincent Jackson himself, who at 31 is in his third year of a declining ypc average. (13.6 ypc to date), which happens to be a number LESS than the guy you want to replace (Lafell- 14.5). Then we have the "tiny" issue of wondering if Jackson can even play in this offense, having spent his entire career in completely different systems. Then there is the issue of bringing in a receiver mid-season and integrating him into the offense.

So lets examine again your position, which is that its critical to add a so called #1 receiving deep threat to this offense.

You would have been heen happy spending big money and draft capital for bringing in a declining 31 year old WR, who may or may not be able to learn the system, and who's value to the end result (putting points on the board) can clearly be questioned. And if it hasn't beeen mentioned, you want to bring in this so called deep threat when its the one area where your QB doesn't excel. It makes no sense. Never has and never will....for those of us with any sense.

There hasn't been a game this season, where the Pats didn't have a man open deep on multiple occasions. I can name three the other night just off the top of my head. So the question begs, what would Jackson actually give them that they don't already have..... except to give woodies to the "WR's are gods" brigade.

 

[A man named Brady]

Regular season scoring numbers means crap I want to see what we do in the playoffs. I'm sick and tired of our offense getting dominated in big games

 

[Oswlek]

Ehh..... People use "Deep threat" when they often are referring to someone who can legitimately threaten a defense in the middle-deep portion of the field, particularly outside the hash marks. And such a player is certainly not overrated, as we've seen year after year, after year.

I'm perfectly aware of what people mean by "deep threat" and how much value they provide, which is why I can confidently say they are overrated by members on this board.

A few tidbits to tack on.

1) The "deep threat" needs to be able to threaten more than just the intermediate-to-deep portion of the field or else their skills are easily neutered. This is why Slater and Bethel Johnson don't become studs simply by sprinting down the field.

2) Yes, NE's offense would have been aided greatly by a legitimate deep threat the past couple years, but you know what would have helped even more? A healthy Rob Gronkowski.

3) Of NE's playoff losses, the lowest scoring output was in 2005, 13 points. The next lowest? 2007 and 2009, each with 14.

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm perfectly aware of what people mean by "deep threat" and how much value they provide, which is why I can confidently say they are overrated by members on this board.

You can say it, but you'll be running counter to any number of analysts, as well as counter to what a pair of eyes can show you. The ability to run down the field is not the same as the ability to threaten middle-deep.

A few tidbits to tack on.

1) The "deep threat" needs to be able to threaten more than just the intermediate-to-deep portion of the field or else their skills are easily neutered. This is why Slater and Bethel Johnson don't become studs simply by sprinting down the field.

No, Slater and Bethel Johnson don't become studs because they can't catch the ball and have basically one route.

2) Yes, NE's offense would have been aided greatly by a legitimate deep threat the past couple years, but you know what would have helped even more? A healthy Rob Gronkowski.

Gronk was plenty healthy in 2010. Gronk was healthy for the first Giants matchup in 2011. Gronk was healthy for some of the Ravens game in 2011, where the team had to squeak out a win.

3) Of NE's playoff losses, the lowest scoring output was in 2005, 13 points. The next lowest? 2007 and 2009, each with 14.

So what? You say "healthy Gronk", yet you ignore the injuries in the 2007 SB, and in 2009, when it suits your purpose in the same post.

Why do you people need to look for straw men, red herrings, or false comparisons every damn time?

 

[Oswlek]

You can say it, but you'll be running counter to any number of analysts, as well as counter to what a pair of eyes can show you. The ability to run down the field is not the same as the ability to threaten middle-deep.

No, Slater and Bethel Johnson don't become studs because they can't catch the ball and have basically one route.

Gronk was plenty healthy in 2010. Gronk was healthy for the first Giants matchup in 2011. Gronk was healthy for some of the Ravens game in 2011, where the team had to squeak out a win.

So what? You say "healthy Gronk", yet you ignore the injuries in the 2007 SB, and in 2009, when it suits your purpose in the same post.

Why do you people need to look for straw men, red herrings, or false comparisons every damn time?

Straw men? Red herrings? False comparisons?



Sorry, Deus. I don't have any interest in continuing this conversation. Enjoy the last word.

 

[Midship]

How silly do you feel right now?

the past few weeks I've sat back and watched some of the typical posters rail against BB and Kraft about not spending enough money, not giving Brady weapons, How BB ruined any chance this team had by trading Mankins.

How this team "isn't very good", and how it has "not played any good teams".

Well after Sundays win the Patriots are now Number 1 in offense(tied). This team doesn't need an expensive old Wide reciever(vjax/Johnson/Fitzgerald) It's got size all over the place(Lafell, Wright, Gronk) to mix in with its speed(Amendola/Minitron)

And they did it by playing teams mostly in the top half of the league in defense(chiefs 2nd, dolphins 3rd, bills 6th, vikings 13th, broncos 16th)

This is a more complete team then what we had last year, and its a team that was built in a way that its going to remain complete for a few years to come.

Threads like this are so predictable it's almost ridiculous. It's the first week of November - the pats have had great regular seasons every single year, do you forget that??

Maybe hold off on these finger-pointing threads until they actually win something when it counts. People had gone from the edge of the cliff to thinking this team has vindicated itself with a great regular season win over a really good team. Little more level-headedness would do everyone some good....

This team has a great shot if it stays healthy, but to say we wouldn't benefit from having a Vincent Jackson type come January is absurd.

 

[RIP#40]

How silly do you feel right now?

the past few weeks I've sat back and watched some of the typical posters rail against BB and Kraft about not spending enough money, not giving Brady weapons, How BB ruined any chance this team had by trading Mankins.

How this team "isn't very good", and how it has "not played any good teams".

Well after Sundays win the Patriots are now Number 1 in offense(tied). This team doesn't need an expensive old Wide reciever(vjax/Johnson/Fitzgerald) It's got size all over the place(Lafell, Wright, Gronk) to mix in with its speed(Amendola/Minitron)

And they did it by playing teams mostly in the top half of the league in defense(chiefs 2nd, dolphins 3rd, bills 6th, vikings 13th, broncos 16th)

This is a more complete team then what we had last year, and its a team that was built in a way that its going to remain complete for a few years to come.

A more complete team? yes. A Championship team? The jury is still out. The Pats need to go 5-2 over the last 7, maybe even 6-1 or else they will not have home field advantage. If they have to go into Denver in January, this team, without a serious WR threat, will lose again, IMO.

 

[Midship]

A more complete team? yes. A Championship team? The jury is still out. The Pats need to go 5-2 over the last 7, maybe even 6-1 or else they will not have home field advantage. If they have to go into Denver in January, this team, without a serious WR threat, will lose again, IMO.

Thank you. A win like the one vs Denver in week nine shows what the team's ceiling is, but is irrelevant come playoff time. I wonder if the OP will make a thread saying "how silly they feel" if we come up short when it counts. Love the way the team is playing right now, but lets hold off on planning the parade.