Sunday’s NFL Games (week 4)

[VrabelJr]

you could pretty much do the same thing with the Pats drafting r.e. defensive backs - DB's are probably more of an indictment on Belichick the GM. Felger brought up a pretty sobering, disappointing item yesterday - against Oakland the Patriots starting offensive lineup had ONE first round draft pick (Solder, and he was f#cking terrible). Is that how you surround one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL?

Our biggest issue wasn't drafting bad DBs, it was drafting DBs that play man and making them play zone and vice versa. Donald Butler was clearly a man corner. We tried to force him to play zone and he sucked. Now he looks more than decent playing in Indy.

We almost had the same catastrophe happen to McCourty. Had a Pro Bowl rookie season playing zone. Then we switched to man in 2011 and he played really bad. You have to play players to their strengths.

As for Ras-I Dowling... we should have known better. With the types of injuries he was suffering, and how he got them, it was clear his body just wasn't meant for pro football.

 

[VrabelJr]

I think Spikes could have been a three down LB if he took his burpees a little more seriously.

The funny thing about Spikes in pass coverage is he's ok if he can play a zone and rely on his really good instincts. He was just awful trying to hang with a RB or TE though, which seems to be what we want our LBs to do.

 

[patsfan-1982]

Not trying to defend bill, Really?? Because I see homers defend his every move and get their pants all wadded when his draft failure is pointed out. You all say is a great gm then make excuses why he had no impact players. And say he drafts at bottom of round 1. Lots of all pros come from late round 1 then next couple rounds. He made some nice moves getting extra picks but then squandered most of them. In 2011 he could have had any player he wanted. To tell you the truth I hated many of them picks but talked myself into liking them because bill picked them. Navorro Bowman was my favorite lb prospect ever but I talked myself into thinking spikes could be a 3 down backer because bill picked him

right now your the only one what he's panties in a bunch over something we cant control like I said in my post above I think they need to scout better and not rely so much on inside info from a hand full of schools

 

[ensoul]

BB has been drafting since when, 2000? So it has been 14 years. Please correct me if I am wrong but out of those last 14 drafts he has had three good receivers:

David Givens
Deion Branch
Julian Edelman.

They rest of the players he drafted have been complete busts. BB has a extremely poor track record when drafting WR.

 

[New England Pride]

I think Spikes could have been a three down LB if he took his burpees a little more seriously.

Spikes will be a three down LB as soon as he gets his body fat percentage below 8.

 

[patsfan-1982]

Spikes will be a three down LB as soon as he gets his body fat percentage below 8.

body fat % has notting to do what it spikes is a 3 down LB if like others said he is in zone keeping everything in front of him but he does not have the speed to cover todays RB's and TE's one on one and not many LB's do

 

[doesntmatter1]

We refuse to draft the big names early and then settle for guys that usually don't even have one 1,000 yard season in college or have some other glaring red flag. We basically draft projects and hope for the best. Our biggest project(edelman) is actually paying off but it still isn't enough. Also we overdraft our receivers by at least two rounds it seems. We struggle with skill positions in general really.

If I had my way, I would try to snatch up whoever scouts wide receivers for the Giants. They seemed to have a decent stretch of productive guys such as Knicks, Cruz, Randle, Manningham, Hixon, etc.

 

[New England Pride]

body fat % has notting to do what it spikes is a 3 down LB if like others said he is in zone keeping everything in front of him but he does not have the speed to cover todays RB's and TE's one on one and not many LB's do

Well my buddy gym rat...I mean patsfancraig told me otherwise.

 

[jsull87]

We refuse to draft the big names early and then settle for guys that usually don't even have one 1,000 yard season in college or have some other glaring red flag. We basically draft projects and hope for the best. Our biggest project(edelman) is actually paying off but it still isn't enough. Also we overdraft our receivers by at least two rounds it seems. We struggle with skill positions in general really.

If I had my way, I would try to snatch up whoever scouts wide receivers for the Giants. They seemed to have a decent stretch of productive guys such as Knicks, Cruz, Randle, Manningham, Hixon, etc.

I think htis is pretty spot on. I don't think the pats need the boom or bust WR. We just need a bunch of consistant guys who can take advantage of the fact Gronk is a beat and draws heavy coverage. I think that's what we have tried to do in FA as well.

 

[AzPatsFan]

not trying to defend BB but he is a defensive coach and he had 5 first round picks starting on defense for him plus revis and a first round rookie coming off the bench

The correect number of first rounders on Defense is 8.
Chandler Jones
Vince Wilfork
Dominique Easley
Jerod Mayo,
Donta Hightower
Jamie Collins
Devin McCourty
Darelle Revis.

 

[AzPatsFan]

BB has been drafting since when, 2000? So it has been 14 years. Please correct me if I am wrong but out of those last 14 drafts he has had three good receivers:

David Givens
Deion Branch
Julian Edelman.

They rest of the players he drafted have been complete busts. BB has a extremely poor track record when drafting WR.

No he doesn't. Show me a list of ,his bust First Round receivers. He seldom wastes draft picks on great receivers, except TEs, because merely good ones will do just fine. He actually seems to prefer buying vets since he doesn't want to spend 3 years developing them.

He also doesn't waste draft picks on uber RBs either because a stable of merely good ones will do fine or better. Show me a list of his bust First Round RBs.

 

[AzorianPats]

I think Spikes could have been a three down LB if he took his burpees a little more seriously.

Apparently now he's a fan of Hightower 2....

 

[DarrylS]

Entering the parallel universe of the NFL Draft provides a chuckle, in the absence of some longitudinal study of all NFL teams we rely on anecdotal evidence that fits our argument... draft hindsight always is the proof some of us need. It's that rearview mirror thing.. the Pats missed on many other draft picks, as did most other teams..

Every team has their hits and every team has their misses, the Pats average draft pick since BB is #26... so the choices are not the same an many other teams, and despite this position we remain competitive... for a while we relied on "off the street" cornerbacks.. now that strategy has changed, as the game has changed.

Most of the first round picks of the BB era are hard to argue with: Seymour, Graham, Warren, Maroney, Wilfork, Watson, Mankins, Maroney, Meriweather, Mayo, McCourty, Solder, Jones, Hightower and Easly...

We are three games into this season and panic mode has set in, give it some time...

The "window" on Brady is closing, can be a harbinger of bad things coming for some, but for others it could be the advent of a new and different time for this team(planning).. and it seems as though BB is preparing for that day.. it is not as though when Brady retires that this team will cease to exist.

 

[ensoul]

No he doesn't. Show me a list of ,his bust First Round receivers. He seldom wastes draft picks on great receivers, except TEs, because merely good ones will do just fine. He actually seems to prefer buying vets since he doesn't want to spend 3 years developing them.

He also doesn't waste draft picks on uber RBs either because a stable of merely good ones will do fine or better. Show me a list of his bust First Round RBs.

Really? How many good ones has he had beside the ones I just mentioned? Round 1 or round 8 pick BB has an awful record track record drafting WR. It is not even debatable.

Also, beside Moss and Welker his track record for bringing in WR is equally as poor.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Let me start out by saying that there isn't another coach out there that I'd rather have than BB. I'm also ok with him/Caserio as a GM/Personnel combo. When everything is considered- draft position, UFA's, FAs, wins, division titles, playoff runs, Pro Bowlers, players that make the roster and start, etc. Certainly some years are better then others but overall the NEP franchise has been way above-average.

However, there is no denying that for whatever the reason, since 2002 the organization's ability to identify, draft and develop impact players at the wide receiver position has been substandard. They got very lucky with Edelman....very.

When it comes to the offensive system, I am also questioning the degree of difficulty and rigidity of the offensive system.

Not playing Dobson vs the Raiders was complete BS. He caught 37 passes last year. That annoyed me. How are young players supposed to develop if they are deactivated? Thompkins caught 32. LaFell caught 40 or so balls in 2012 and 49 in 2013. Wright caught 54 balls last year. Amendola was a 80+ catch guy in StL. Clearly these guys can catch the football. Is the WR in this offense only successful when you have exceptional players like Branch, Moss, Gronk, WW? It took Edelman 3+ years to break through? Do you need To spend 100 hours of alone time with Brady to earn his trust? Is Brady freezing out the WRs because they do not run the routes the way he wants them run. Can't he make the adjustments to them?

Now with that all said it's not like the WRs they/ are drafting are pro-bowlers somewhere else. To me part of the problem is a talent recognition issue.

I understand that the o-line has problems right now but this has been a 12 year issue for this team.

 

[SalemPats]

The other thing that we fail to mention is Aaron Hernandez, he was basically a WR and an elite one who was entering his prime. If this year we had Gronk/Aaron/Edelman/Vereen that's a nice offense. Aaron would fit the role of the physical receiver and we could play him on the outside

 

[Archeryaddict12]

The other thing that we fail to mention is Aaron Hernandez, he was basically a WR and an elite one who was entering his prime. If this year we had Gronk/Aaron/Edelman/Vereen that's a nice offense. Aaron would fit the role of the physical receiver and we could play him on the outside

The murderer really messed up the team in terms of offense IMO. We had a staple 2te offense that worked and then the new wr's to help man the outside. Then we had to change philosophy on O and throw in the wr's.

 

[varjao]

Although Edelman is a nice surprise and turning into a respectable player league wide, I don't think we should count him in all this WR/Draft conversation if we are analyzing the process of drafting WR by the Patriots through the years.

A 7th round QB converted to WR and who has dealt with injuries for 4 years, producing now, and then all of a sudden this "HA, we drafted Edelman, you were saying?" from the guys that defend the BB method. It doesn't make much sense. It's like finding a winning lottery ticket. Enjoy the money and what he can give to you but don't think for a minute everything is OK and you're actually making that money, or you will end up broke. The draft is a crap shot specially after the 5th round. Every once in a while we and other teams will hit a steal but that's not how you analyse drafting, at least it's not how I do.

There is obviously a fail in the process of bringing receivers to work with Brady, the fact that he is the GOAT masks these fails since Brady can (or could) turn a jag into a productive player, that doesn't alleviate the need for a playmaker , we saw what Brady can do with a playmaker with Moss, Welker, Hernandez, Gronk, even an slightly above average receiver like Lloyd. That said, I have high hopes for Dobson.

 

[BobDigital]

I am not worried about WRs What I am curious about is our OL drafting.

Solder - mid first. Has not lived up especially this year.
Vollmer - mid 2nd - Often injured but good when healthy
Connolly - UDFA
Cannon - 5th - Okay backup tackle.
Stork - 4th - Wait and see
Devey - UDFA
Kline - UDFA
Wendell - UDFA
Flemming - 4th - wait and see

look at that no wonder we are having issues on the OL.

How about spending a few more picks in the top 3 rounds? Maybe then Brady wouldn't get killed.

 

[Bruins29]

A 7th round QB converted to WR and who has dealt with injuries for 4 years, producing now, and then all of a sudden this "HA, we drafted Edelman, you were saying?" from the guys that defend the BB method. It doesn't make much sense. It's like finding a winning lottery ticket.

So we should only count the misses when we judge the drafting and also only count the WR's they draft that they figured would be good WRs.

Makes sense to me lol