Why does everyone assume Browner starts over Dennard?

[joepatsfan]

Thurmond was their nickel CB, he was never threatening for an outside job. You're thinking of Maxwell, who I don't believe ever started to win over Browner's job but his play in place of him made Browner expendable after the season ended.

Yes I did have those two confused. But Browner did in fact lose PT due to getting beat over the top:
http://mynorthwest.com/719/2375017/Will-Brandon-Browner-lose-his-starting-job

http://mynorthwest.com/292/2374571/Notebook-Browner-benched-but-not-buried

 

[joepatsfan]

And yet it was Browner that got a 3 year/$16.8m deal from Belichick and Thurmond got a 1 year/$3m deal

Yes because Browner is really good. I love the Browner signing. I'm just saying that when it comes to matchups, I want Browner on big guys and Dennard on small guy.

Browner lost PT due to getting beat by quicker players, but against bigger WR where he can get physical he's a beast which is what he will do this season

 

[Deus Irae]

Why does OP assume Dennard will be ahead of Ryan? As of right now Ryan is still a CB.

He may have watched the Patriots playing football last season.

 

[Ivan]

Browner got starter money and people put him in as a starter because of that and because they need a way to lay it out in traditional terms, however there is nothing traditional about this defense, it has all sorts of positional and un it flexibility built into it and they have many options for running their sub packages and imo we are going to see all sorts of combinations this season. I expect both Dennard and Browner to see plenty of playing time and expect their defensive sets to depend upon their opponent.

 

[Sciz]

http://mynorthwest.com/292/2374571/Notebook-Browner-benched-but-not-buried

Perhaps the better question is why was Browner covering a 4.3 guy with no deep help? Browner is an extremely flawed player, but if you're willing to give him the deep safety help, he's as good of a CB as any for the first 10 yards.

 

[AzorianPats]

Browner was benched at times last season before the suspension. He is prone to smaller WRs and speed especially on double moves. I don't necessarily think that Browner is THAT much better. His size helps him cover the bigger more impactful WRs but he would be abused by a Mike Wallace whereas Dennard can't handle the big boys, but he can beat up on the smaller guys and hold his own very well

That sounds exactly like Talib!

 

[patfanken]

I have been on record right from the moment Browner was signed that I saw Dennard keeping that outside starters role. Browner is a fine NFL starting CB who has limitations against certain kinds of receivers. The same can be said of Dennard. That's why I can foresee Browner being used as a week to week wildcard, shutting down some match up the Pats defensive brain trust deems an advantage. Some weeks it might be a receiving TE, other weeks it might be a big WR. It could be as a "starter" or in situational defenses. Who cares. The thing is that BOTH Dennard and Browner will get a lot of snaps on defense.

Here's the really exciting thing. In Revis, Dennard, Browner, Ryan, and Arrington the Pats now have 5 CB's (6 if you count McCourty) who have proven they are good enough to start at CB in this league. I'm not saying starting Arrrington would be ideal, but he has proven he can play in this league, and in certain situations he can thrive.

There has NEVER been a Patriot team that has even come close to that kind of quality and depth. So who cares who the "starters" are. All we know for certain is that on a majority of the defensive snaps there are going to be 5 or more DB's on the field. Who they'll be will be up to Patricia, but it will be interesting to us.

 

[Urgent]

An interesting aspect of the CB approach will be corners who can best handle the complexity of moving around.

The Patriots have invested pretty significantly in Revis. The way to maximize the return from Revis is to move him around. Tampa Bay didn't really do that; New York did. As an offense, if Revis isn't moving, then simply move your top receiver to the other side or the slot.

Assume the Patriots move Revis around. They're not stupid.

That then demands that the rest of the secondary move around as well. The safeties will need to adjust their coverage. The other corners will have to switch up.

My understanding of Seattle's defense is that it has less secondary motion and man coverage, so Browner has more experience in a RCB position than moving from outside to slot. Our assumption is that the #2 corner will take the #2 receiver and move around the field. That's different than just lining up on the right side and following the play call.

It's also different than taking on the TE, who plays a very different role than an outside receiver. Sometimes there are receiver-like roles; sometimes there are not. Browner is built like someone who can shut down a tight end, but that doesn't mean he is as comfortable in an inside role.

Pre-season will be very interesting to watch how Browner is used, and who plays opposite Revis. Given that Browner is new to the team and also facing a four-game suspension, the team needs to get him up to speed in a very different defense but also prepare the player who is starting for at least a quarter of the season.

 

[patsinthesnow]

In the biggest regular season game of the year and most likely the AFCCG, Browner won't be the CB2.

D. Thomas-Revis
Sanders-Dennard
Welker-Arrington
J. Thomas-Browner

Sanders and Welker are bad matchups for Browner.

 

[Brady6]

QB rating against for Patriots CBs in 2013 –

Arrington – 89.2
Dennard – 79.8
Browner – 78.5
Revis – 59.9
Ryan – 49.8

 

[Brady6]

In the biggest regular season game of the year and most likely the AFCCG, Browner won't be the CB2.

D. Thomas-Revis
Sanders-Dennard
Welker-Arrington
J. Thomas-Browner

Sanders and Welker are bad matchups for Browner.

I would prefer to put the more physical Dennard on Welker and have him play rough with Wes. In addition, I think that Sanders is a better matchup with Arrington because Dennard is not as fast as Arrington, which is not ideal when going against Sanders.

 

[joepatsfan]

Perhaps the better question is why was Browner covering a 4.3 guy with no deep help? Browner is an extremely flawed player, but if you're willing to give him the deep safety help, he's as good of a CB as any for the first 10 yards.

Exactly though. I don't know why he had no safety help, but whatever. I love this signing and think BB and Revis will bring a whole new level of physicality to this defense that we sort of saw last season with Talib (when healthy). I agree in the first 10, BB is one of the best.

 

[Urgent]

QB rating against for Patriots CBs in 2013 –

Arrington – 89.2
Dennard – 79.8
Browner – 78.5
Revis – 59.9
Ryan – 49.8

That's interesting stuff. How many plays is that for Ryan?

Those numbers all are lower than I would have expected, given the Patriots defense against the pass. (Assume Talib had a lower figure than Dennard & Arrington.)

 

[JMC00]

He may have watched the Patriots playing football last season.

Is that right?


Dennard- (595 snaps)
Targeted 67 Times
Allowed 34 Completions
50.75%
509 Yards (14.9 yards per completion)
2 TD
1 INT
79.8 QB Rating against

Ryan- (500 snaps)
Targeted 50 Times
Allowed 24 Completions
48%
328 Yards (13.6 yards per completion)
3 TD
5 INT
49.8 QB Rating against

 

[Brady6]

I do not think it really matters who starts, our top five DBs were all on the field 60% or more of the time last season –

- Devin McCourty – 1,031 of 1,156 (89.2 percent)
- Aqib Talib -- 849 of 1,156 (73.4 percent)
- Steve Gregory – 840 of 1,156 (72.7 percent)
- Kyle Arrington – 834 of 1,156 (72.1 percent)
- Alfonzo Dennard – 722 of 1,156 (62.5 percent)
- Logan Ryan – 598 of 1,156 (51.7 percent)

So if are top five this season are Revis, Browner, McCourty, Dennard, and Ryan we are in great shape.

 

[Brady6]

That's interesting stuff. How many plays is that for Ryan?

Those numbers all are lower than I would have expected, given the Patriots defense against the pass. (Assume Talib had a lower figure than Dennard & Arrington.)

Ryan played 598 of 1156 defensive snaps, he was thrown at 50 times, resulting in 24 receptions (48%) 328 yards, 3 touchdowns, and 5 interceptions.

Talib had a 54.1 QB rating against in 2013.

 

[JMC00]

That's interesting stuff. How many plays is that for Ryan?

Those numbers all are lower than I would have expected, given the Patriots defense against the pass. (Assume Talib had a lower figure than Dennard & Arrington.)

Ryan played 500 snaps. (An FYI all my numbers posted on here are regular season and does not included post-season stats)

Aqib Talib in comparison

Target 65 Times
29 Completions
44.62%
471 yards (16.2 yards per completion)
2 TD
4 INT
54.1 QB Rating against.

Arrington allowed 52.5% on 80 targets, 613 Yards 4 TD 1 INT and an 89.2% QB Rating against.

 

[joepatsfan]

Is that right?


Dennard- (595 snaps)
Targeted 67 Times
Allowed 34 Completions
50.75%
509 Yards (14.9 yards per completion)
2 TD
1 INT
79.8 QB Rating against

Ryan- (500 snaps)
Targeted 50 Times
Allowed 24 Completions
48%
328 Yards (13.6 yards per completion)
3 TD
5 INT
49.8 QB Rating against

Those are really good stats and I think we may have something huge with Ryan here but historically over the last 4-5 years, BB has found CBs who have really good rookie years then sputter out (DMC, Butler come to mind). So with Ryan, I think it would be smart to sit back and let him develop as a #3/4 CB and not force the issue with him

 

[JMC00]

Those are really good stats and I think we may have something huge with Ryan here but historically over the last 4-5 years, BB has found CBs who have really good rookie years then sputter out (DMC, Butler come to mind). So with Ryan, I think it would be smart to sit back and let him develop as a #3/4 CB and not force the issue with him

But this whole thread is based on a 2nd year player not "sputtering" out in Dennard. So according some Dennard broke that whole streak of good rookie years, mediocre 2nd years.

 

[Deus Irae]

Is that right?

Yes.

Without a doubt.

That's why he was the starter.


You think it was a Brady/Bledsoe situation?