Dreams of a WR Trade

[Brady6]

LOL Bradford acts like he doesn't care. He could drop back to pass and try and think if his Ferrari needs gas on the way home. Catching passes from Brady and Bradford is not a comparison. Brady has a history of making backup and semi-pro league wr's look decent. He made Edelman a 1000 yrd WR. Every wr other than welker were exiled from the NFL after released from the patriots.

Ironically we have had three of his receivers - Amendola, Lloyd, and Salas - on our roster in the past two seasons. None of them benefited from being paired with Brady in terms of production. Brady does not deal with incompetence; if you aren't doing your job you aren't getting targeted.

 

[Ivan]

If you point out concerns or criticisms about the NE WRs it stirs the primates into a frenzy.

Theyll gang up together and throw feces at you.

That's because not all of us know more than Belichick and believe we are more capable than he is. You and a few others are uniquely delusional in that way. And there is a big difference between criticism and concerns and relentlessly sh.tting all over Belichick's performance as GM, and given that his team has performed better than any other franchise in football since he got here your delusions are even more striking and border on mental illness.

 

[Ivan]

Who did I call fat LOL. Really. Everybody started picking on my posts when all I want is our players to play to their max potential.

Correction, we started picking on your posts when you started outlining how players should train to be better, when in truth you don't have the slightest idea how they train, how they eat, or how they get ready for any season, and your idiotic belief that you know better when you don't know anything about any of them other than what they look like is 100% delusional. Just because you work out and have sworn off gravy it doesn't mean you know how to train professional athletes who have made it to the NFL, and acting like you do makes you look like an idiot, although I will admit that your general illiteracy gives that impression regardless of the content of your posts.

Bottom line, those who come in here and start acting like they know everything and post the same things over and over as though that will give their bullsh.t more credibility generally don't do well here, and they end up with people consistently mocking them, which is what has happened to you. Had you come in here and started discussing football instead of trying to tell everyone how things really are you would have done better, but from what i can tell you are extremely insecure and have a serious need to tell everyone how awesome you are over and over and over, which in all likelihood means no one out there is telling you anything like that so you need to reinforce it for yourself in every way you can as many times as you can.

You're good enough

You're smart enough

And gosh darnit people like you



Repeat that 1,000 times a day, maybe things will start looking up for you.

 

[Brady6]

If you point out concerns or criticisms about the NE WRs it stirs the primates into a frenzy.

Theyll gang up together and throw feces at you.

There are obvious concerns; we have a number of young players (Dobson, Boyce, Thompkins) and players who have had some injury concerns during their careers (Amendola, Edelman, Gronkowski). There is no way to alleviate that however, the reality is there is no Randy Moss on the trade market right now, and we have to roll with what we have.

 

[Gymrat]

I noticed triumph LOL. Thats my point championships are not won by biasedly thinking your players are better than they really are. They are won by having the best team period. Elway couldn't win the big one then suddenly he had talent to help him out and won 2 to close out his career. Yeah bill was bullheaded enough to think gaffney/Caldwell were good enough til they dropped some passes on some plays and shut down on others while Indy's WRs made play after play.

Of course I view intelligence in WRs. But its useless if your talent is limited and prevents your body from performing. Just ask all the vets who were more savvy than ever but cut due to no longer having the physical skills to use intelligence. This is a sport and its first and foremost bout talent Period. Intelligence is nice to add obviously. But fact is our intelligent WRs have struggled physically against better playoff teams. Some fans seem to see this as a religion and want to believe bills plays and schemes are all that's needed. Follow his plays and schemes and we will prevail over talent.Edelman and Amendola in our schemes beats out big athletic fluid talented WRs who are useless in our system some say. I feel then our system should adapt a little because as a whole its failed. The WRs are consistently shut down in January. We need to improve on that. And the answer isn't our wr's playing more intelligently. We have WRs do that just fine. Even qbs not super intelligent have had success cuz of strong fairly accurate arms and athleticism. While very intelligent qbs continue to fail due to lack of arm talent. Of course we want a qb with incredible arm talent while super intelligent like Tom Brady. But he needs some talent around him. Even he can't do it all.

As far as dropping Shannon's name to prove my point,not even close. I shouldn't need to do that. Because obviously when a player drops fat he gets quicker when he adds muscle he adds power. I haven't seen Shannon in years but i have kept in contact boadvantages twice a year through email. He would find it weird having to explain it himself the advantages of losing fat to gain quickness and adding muscle for more power. But I'm pretty sure if I sent him some of these remarks about it, I could have him drop by to explain himself the advantages it has provided for some players.

In the end I just want our team to kick butt. I feel we have them players here already with just some minor routine tweaks for some. Our only need is a wr who will consistently threaten intermediate routes down the seam and at the sideline. A wr who on 3rd and 10 or 15 can beat the defense even when they know he is coming. I don't want a mike Wallace so its not just bout a deep threat. And I never played fantasy league. Yet maybe. I want that guy like i said who can win on 3rd and 10-15 yrds when they know what's coming. Somebody who can get deep and if he doesn't seperate still has a good chance to highpoint. BUT a wr who relies most on route running/timing to do it. Marquise Lee was one of my favorite players in the whole draft. But people get rediculously upset when somebody points out we lack wr talent. They get upset at anybody who believes it takes more than schemes/intelligence to win in January.

Not saying scheme discipline/intelligence isn't important. But so is talent. Speed/power/explosiveness,athleticism,fluidness. We can beat undisciplined teams with similar talent but what about disciplined teams with more talent. Pete Carroll is still personal over what happened here. He made a statement: When your players are as good as we are,you don't need to over think things with fancy complex schemes. That was a direct haymaker at us,our coach and players. He was bragging to kraft and rubbing it in.

We have the best pocket qb in the NFL. We have a coach who coaches disciplined schemes yet we haven't won a championship in a decade. We need a talent in key positions. I believe the passrush is much improved. If we added a legit playmaker, he will create space for every other player on offense. Brady can take advantage of that better than any qb in the NFL.

 

[moosekill]

You realize no one is reading your posts right?

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Anybody who believes Ocho's problem was the playbook is lying to themselves. He was declining before we brought him in. And case anybody hasn't noticed yet he never caught on anywhere else either. So I suppose he couldn't digest anybody's playbook. Funny he had no problem digesting a playbook at 26 yrs old. Get on me for spell check changing my words and being a lazy typed. However you can't figure out ocho was over the hill and couldn't any no longer perform x or z duties. Ocho was my nephews favorite player when he was 7\8 yrs old. When he saw him playing for us he said he got slow. I was shocked he noticed something like that. I felt chad slowed a little but he saw him run one route and saw it. I said Kyler just a little slower right and he replied he is slow now I just thought thats just great.

B6 that's what I was thinking. Is there awhenter wr with more ability than Dobson that might become available. I would be happy with a Brian Quick caliber prospect. This way at least one should make the leap to dangerous status.

Like I stated its not often but teams do trade talent when b4 they leave as free agents or the player/team are unhappy with each other among reasons. For the people who have no life other than the patriots,I apologize if suggesting we could use upgrades at wr crushes your world suggesting our wr's aren't adequate to win a championship. 31 other teams players are getting payed to. To win it all means being the best. If we don't hoist that beautiful trophy once again where it belongs showing we are the absolute best for the first time in a decade. Then football isn't worth watching. If it shows early that our offense is lacking and winning the Lombardi trophy is less likely then what good is watching. I don't care to watch another playoff buttkicking.

As long as Brady is zinging passes, the championship should be expected. And he only needs one more piece around him to make everybody on this offense more dangerous and better secure a championship trophy. It sure beats HE!! Out of hoping and wishing EVERYBODY on this team can have a career best year. Which is possible but unrealistic to expect. Besides once Brady declines there is no garuntee we even win our division anymore much less fully expect a championship trophy. So let's take our shots.

Pls read my post I didn't say it was the only reason, but, as others have pointed out, it was a factor.

 

[varjao]

Besides trolling gymrat has a point, after Moss we had Gronk for a short time (his 2nd season) being a playmaker on the receiving corps and then nothing more, only midgets slot receivers, this offense is not being able to move the ball in january.

On the paper this offense looks good but I cannot trust Amendola and Gronk will play a full season at 100% of their capabilities. Edelman also has a history.

I'm anxious to see 2 guys this year, Lafell and Amendola. The fact that Amendola didn't have post season surgery to fix that groin worries me a little, last season he was not able to cut, just to run in a straight line, he was very limited.

 

[jays52]

I've tried to stay off this for a while, but I really need to chime in here on the whole "lose fat, gain muscle" thing as it relates to athletic performance. It is an extremely myopic view of performance factors and a gross oversimplification of what is happening. It shows a strong bias towards the big for nothing, all show no go bodybuilding/aesthetics realm of understanding for pure hypertrophy and fat loss. Just as calorie excesses/deficits and cut/bulk cycles are bullsh*t in a vacuum, bigger=stronger and leaner=quicker is bullsh*t in a vacuum...especially when we start talking about how 3-5% bodyfat is good for athletes in a game largely determined by recovery. Their endocrine systems would be thrashed at that low a level without serious augmentation with a very short half life delivered via nearly daily injection (GH). This is exactly why you see nearly every player on the teams between 7 and 25 percent depending on position with the real superathletes like backers, backs, and ends being all right around 10%.

Got off topic there, but real world explosion and power are not generated solely by the amount of skeletal muscle one has. It's a far more complicated equation that uses the nervous system, core power, mobility, torque, triple extension, and force generation throughout range of the movement. That's why there's obese 5'9 Olympic lifters who can dunk and big for nothing bodybuilders that can't jump onto a 36" box. I'm also a gym rat and every four months I put myself through a hypertrophy phase when I don't have any grappling competitions on the horizon. I usually put on a few pounds of lean muscle in a 4 week mesophase and usually drop a tiny bit of fat while I'm at it. After that phase I am athletically a sack of garbage. Time under tension and single joint isolated contractions against resistance get you big really quick. They also make you a weak b*tch really quick because you down regulate all the pathways activated and conditioned by explosive movements, holistic body engagement, and all the hormones activated by progressive heavy load compound training. Your speed goes to sh*t, your strength goes to sh*t, your explosion goes to sh*t, your anaerobic capacity goes to sh*t, and most of all your recovery goes to sh*t if you are not making functional activations...but you will look like Channing Tatum .

I'm all for players becoming more functionally powerful, explosive, and agile but to continually say an athlete that you don't have a deep understanding of needs to add muscle or lose fat is a gross oversimplification. It's pretty safe to assume that NFL strength and conditioning coaches are world class at what they do and know their athletes very well. Players have playing weight ranges in their contracts for a reason and their goal is not to play at that weight at 2% bf with a spray tan.

 

[Gymrat]

There are obvious concerns; we have a number of young players (Dobson, Boyce, Thompkins) and players who have had some injury concerns during their careers (Amendola, Edelman, Gronkowski). There is no way to alleviate that however, the reality is there is no Randy Moss on the trade market right now, and we have to roll with what we have.

You haven't a clue what you're talking about. I slightly brag when attacked first. Secondly Ivan you don't see me playing internet badA$$ and play better on the internet. Obviously I have enough confidence,security to not let internet insults bother me the slightest.

Sorry if this sounds arrogant to all respectful intelligent patriot fans out there. But dude obviously I know something bout a player being in his max shape and optimizing his full potential of musclegrowth/power and leaning out to optimize quickness. EVERY Athlete has ability to get leaner/quicker and more muscle/power. And if he isn't at his max it shows and I have the experience to see that. I dont even come close to claiming I know everything. But if potential for improvements are there I can at least see that much. You have to actually add some muscle for improved power and lose 15/20lbs of fat while already being in pretty good shape in order to feel the difference and get excited about our player doing it and think how awesome our player will be.

Back in 1990 season jimmy Johnson played giants on Monday night. They had the ball on giants half yard line for first n goal. They went for it on 4th down. They failed again. Most people don't know it but this was the seed for the great powerful Dallas OLine. He traded for a couple players and fired the strength/conditioning coach immediately. Hired a new head strength/conditioning coach and his team. Rest is history. He traded for a couple big heavy lineman along with drafting Erik WilliaTheslightlycamecame not just bigger/more powerful but slightly quicker/more explosive. Erik Williams was quite strong,quick when drafted. But he hit a whole new level. He got more powerful very quickly and became the most awesome drive blocking RT in the NFL. Reggie White would very much agree. All while he got slightly quicker/more explosive while adding muscle/power. My opinion, that line was juiced up. Those guys were always big n heavy b4 they got to Dallas. And decent quickness/athleticism for guys considered overweight NFL olineman. However for fat heavy guys,they now had bulging Muscles in their shoulders and arms. They even had good muscle definition in shoulders/arms for guys that heavy. They all got much more powerful while also a little more quick and athletic compared to their time with Dallas. Whether coming from other NFL teams or college, all those guys made strides in power and even quickness when they arrived in Dallas. Very Very impressive if them guys were natural. The new strength coach made improvements in terms of power/explosion to help vastly improve all their olineman. Impressive either way and effective

I'm just talking dropping any excess weight and adother 10lbs of muscle through very strict nutrition for our players to take other teams by storm.

Bottom line I just want our team to dominate. Especially when competition doesn't see it coming. Going the extra mile for power/quickness, and flexibility other teams don't do.

 

[Ivan]

Besides trolling gymrat has a point, after Moss we had Gronk for a short time (his 2nd season) being a playmaker on the receiving corps and then nothing more, only midgets slot receivers, this offense is not being able to move the ball in january.

On the paper this offense looks good but I cannot trust Amendola and Gronk will play a full season at 100% of their capabilities. Edelman also has a history.

I'm anxious to see 2 guys this year, Lafell and Amendola. The fact that Amendola didn't have post season surgery to fix that groin worries me a little, last season he was not able to cut, just to run in a straight line, he was very limited.

I don't think there is anyone here who wouldn't like to have seen them adding a true number 1 receiver who can stretch the field and make big plays, which is why we are always dreaming of Larry Fitzgerald of Andre Johnson when their names come up in trade rumors, where the issue between posters like Triumph, Stuart Gymrat Smalley, and others arise is their insistence that they have to have that player to win a Lombardi, when the truth is that the teams that have been winning the Super Bowls aren't more dynamic than the Patriots offensively they have been better defensively, and when challenged repeatedly to back up their argument they run from it only to reappear and make the same claim again and again in subsequent threads. No team in football is 100%, all teams have flaws, and what they are trying to do every offseason is address as many of those flaws as they can to get the best team possible to compete for a championship the following season, and for teams as good as the Patriots that's a tall order as they have to pay their players more because they are more successful and that makes it harder to compete in free agency, and they pick at the bottom of every round in every draft and get last pick of players who have been released. In short the system is stacked against teams like the Patriots yet Belichick still manages to put a championship caliber team on the field every season.

Personally I wanted the Patriots to address the defense in free agency and the offense in the draft, because that's where the opportunities presented themselves for them, there were no big time TE's or WR's available in free agency, and the best center was priced out of their market, so Belichick went and addressed CB with all pro caliber players, something we have been begging for, and added a WR with size to the mix, something else we have been begging for, and then he addressed their OL, their pass rush, and depth at DB and RB in the draft. Imo he addressed as many of their pressing needs as he could have in this offseason and the constant bashing of him for not adding a big time playmaking WR when there was not even one available to them is beyond idiotic. I will be thrilled if they find a way to get a guy like Andre johnson but I am not going to hold my breath or pound my fisties and feeties on the floor if they don't. Imo this is as good a team on paper as they have fielded going into a season since they last won a Super Bowl. The 2007 team was more explosive offensively because of Moss but they have not had a defense of this caliber since 2003-2004, and even if their offense drops to 4th or 5th in points scored they will have defense that is top 5 in points against and the complement of the two will give them a Lombardi caliber team and a significant chance at winning it all. And the idea that they cannot get that done because they don't have a big time number 1 receiver is as wrong as they come, especially given that the teams winning it all have been lacking that very option literally every year.

 

[Gymrat]

Woops wrong quote B6, my apologies. Didn't mean it.

 

[Ivan]

You haven't a clue what you're talking about. I slightly brag when attacked first. Secondly Ivan you don't see me playing internet badA$$ and play better on the internet. Obviously I have enough confidence,security to not let internet insults bother me the slightest.

Sorry if this sounds arrogant to all respectful intelligent patriot fans out there. But dude obviously I know something bout a player being in his max shape and optimizing his full potential of musclegrowth/power and leaning out to optimize quickness.

First of all Jays just addressed your posts with far more expertise than i ever could, and in doing so he basically addressed my views on this matter. i used to work at a gym and had to be around bodybuilding idiots like you on a regular basis, and the only thing more striking than the absence of girlfriends among them was that they were the least athletic people in the gym. They are in great shape for going to the beach but they couldn't dunk a basketball if their lives depended upon it.

That aside you are arrogant but that's just to mask your insecurity and all the make believe "expertise" in the world won't hide that fact. I do believe you know a great deal about body building because you talk exactly the way every body builder i have met talks, but confusing that knowledge with real knowledge regarding maximizing athletic performance simply makes you look stupid.

 

[Ivan]

I'm anxious to see 2 guys this year, Lafell and Amendola. The fact that Amendola didn't have post season surgery to fix that groin worries me a little, last season he was not able to cut, just to run in a straight line, he was very limited.

The Amendola injury is a strange one for me to understand and i expected surgery in the offseason, but apparently it is not necessary to re attach the tear but it does need time to heal completely and Amendola chose to try and play with it despite the limitations and I give him big time credit for that even though he was a shell of himself on the field and could not cut or stop and start quickly, which really is the basis of his game. Hopefully they are right and he is 100% this season because it will make a huge difference for them. I had him as one of the player's I am most anxious to see this camp because if he can return to form it will be a big plus for this offense.

 

[Ivan]

Sorry if this sounds arrogant to all respectful intelligent patriot fans out there. But dude obviously I know something bout a player being in his max shape and optimizing his full potential of musclegrowth/power and leaning out to optimize quickness. EVERY Athlete has ability to get leaner/quicker and more muscle/power. And if he isn't at his max it shows and I have the experience to see that. I dont even come close to claiming I know everything. But if potential for improvements are there I can at least see that much. You have to actually add some muscle for improved power and lose 15/20lbs of fat while already being in pretty good shape in order to feel the difference and get excited about our player doing it and think how awesome our player will be.

Back in 1990 season jimmy Johnson played giants on Monday night. They had the ball on giants half yard line for first n goal. They went for it on 4th down. They failed again. Most people don't know it but this was the seed for the great powerful Dallas OLine. He traded for a couple players and fired the strength/conditioning coach immediately. Hired a new head strength/conditioning coach and his team. Rest is history. He traded for a couple big heavy lineman along with drafting Erik WilliaTheslightlycamecame not just bigger/more powerful but slightly quicker/more explosive. Erik Williams was quite strong,quick when drafted. But he hit a whole new level. He got more powerful very quickly and became the most awesome drive blocking RT in the NFL. Reggie White would very much agree. All while he got slightly quicker/more explosive while adding muscle/power. My opinion, that line was juiced up. Those guys were always big n heavy b4 they got to Dallas. And decent quickness/athleticism for guys considered overweight NFL olineman. However for fat heavy guys,they now had bulging Muscles in their shoulders and arms. They even had good muscle definition in shoulders/arms for guys that heavy. They all got much more powerful while also a little more quick and athletic compared to their time with Dallas. Whether coming from other NFL teams or college, all those guys made strides in power and even quickness when they arrived in Dallas. Very Very impressive if them guys were natural. The new strength coach made improvements in terms of power/explosion to help vastly improve all their olineman. Impressive either way and effective

I'm just talking dropping any excess weight and adother 10lbs of muscle through very strict nutrition for our players to take other teams by storm.

Bottom line I just want our team to dominate. Especially when competition doesn't see it coming. Going the extra mile for power/quickness, and flexibility other teams don't do.

Try a body building message board, things will probably go better for you.

 

[Ivan]

I'm just talking dropping any excess weight and adother 10lbs of muscle through very strict nutrition for our players to take other teams by storm.

Bottom line I just want our team to dominate. Especially when competition doesn't see it coming. Going the extra mile for power/quickness, and flexibility other teams don't do.

Awesome post, I doubt any NFL coach or trainer has ever thought of that idea. You should contact them and offer your expertise, i am sure they will jump at your novel ideas. Personally i think your idea of eating better and working out could revolutionize professional sports as we know them. I can't imagine why they have never come up with them before?

 

[Brady6]

The Amendola injury is a strange one for me to understand and i expected surgery in the offseason, but apparently it is not necessary to re attach the tear but it does need time to heal completely and Amendola chose to try and play with it despite the limitations and I give him big time credit for that even though he was a shell of himself on the field and could not cut or stop and start quickly, which really is the basis of his game. Hopefully they are right and he is 100% this season because it will make a huge difference for them. I had him as one of the player's I am most anxious to see this camp because if he can return to form it will be a big plus for this offense.

I think that surgery was unnecessary because he essentially did what the surgery would have done in tearing the groin from the bone completely. I think what hurt Amendola was that he came back fast and the team attempted to give him the rest he needed by limiting his practice time. Not practicing or practicing on a limited basis in his first year with the team probably really hurt, he needed those reps with Brady. I watched a lot of his tape this offseason, he was impressive with the Rams he could really contribute in the slot and at the Z-WR, he seems to be a player who runs deeper routes than Edelman or Welker, more in the 5-15 yard range.

 

[Brady6]

@jays52 Great post!!

I am big into working out as well, and you nailed it. There is a fundamental difference between “training” and “working out” to get into shape, and focusing on weight gain/loss is not a huge metric in “training”. Training is about gains whether it is on the bench, squat in terms of strength, or on the track in terms of speed. A person could gain or lose weight with it making absolutely no impact on their athletic ability, Jamie Collins could gain 15lbs, and it could do nothing to improve him in any aspect on the field.

 

[Snake Eyes]

@jays52 Great post!!

I am big into working out as well, and you nailed it. There is a fundamental difference between “training” and “working out” to get into shape, and focusing on weight gain/loss is not a huge metric in “training”. Training is about gains whether it is on the bench, squat in terms of strength, or on the track in terms of speed. A person could gain or lose weight with it making absolutely no impact on their athletic ability, Jamie Collins could gain 15lbs, and it could do nothing to improve him in any aspect on the field.

It could also help him improve a great deal.

 

[Snake Eyes]

It's pretty safe to assume that NFL strength and conditioning coaches are world class at what they do

That doesn't mean what they do is actually productive, I've seen pics of many teams weight rooms and they're absolutely LOADED with machines, if the players are using them a lot then they're doing themselves a tremendous disservice.