Wells Report on Dolphins locker room: Incognito, others in 'pattern of harrassment'

[mayoclinic]

The fact that everyone was cool with Incognito's behavior means that the locker room wasn't toxic. It's actually a sign of closeness and trust when you can joke with people about what would normally be considered inappropriate, this is why guys refer to one another in derogatory terms when they're friends.

But everybody wasn't "cool" with it.

It doesn't matter matter whether the person doing it think's it's ok, or if 99% of the people are "cool" with it. If it makes another person uncomfortable, it's not acceptable in a professional workplace.

 

[ThatllMoveTheChains!!!]

The fact that everyone was cool with Incognito's behavior means that the locker room wasn't toxic. It's actually a sign of closeness and trust when you can joke with people about what would normally be considered inappropriate, this is why guys refer to one another in derogatory terms when they're friends.

As far as dividing the locker room goes, the other players didn't have a problem with Martin, they treated him like they treated everyone else, he had the problem with them.

And the fact that most slaves didn't attempt to escape means they enjoyed the job security.

 

[Kontradiction]

Is it wussification of America to consider making immature jokes about ones mother, family, or shooting black people out of bounds behavior?

I mean seriously? How old are these people?

His target audience was a football locker room. Not sure about you, but literally every locker room I've been has carried an immature sense of humor. It's a bench of testosterone fueled manly men in there together. Naturally, that kind of humor is going to prevail in there whereas it generally would be looked down upon in society.

 

[BradyManny]

I object to the "this happens in every NFL locker room" stuff. No, it happens in NFL locker rooms where teams aren't focused on winning games.

Do you think Bill Belichick lets players get away with douche-baggery and write it off as boys being boys? No. Hell no.

This reflects poorly on the Dolphins organization and their commitment to winning. It's about culture. The Pats have a strong, good culture; other organizations don't.

Even putting aside right & wrong, whether you think its being soft or not, getting rid of stupid stuff like this makes you more competitive. It's the opposite of team-building, and coaches have to control this stuff.

 

[Kontradiction]

Yeah man, it's totally cool to joke about shooting black people and *****ing Martin's sister. Pretty much all you said is that it's cool to have a toxic locker room. Leadership is about picking up your teammates rather than dividing the locker room and playing alpha-male to cover up your own insecurity.

People's defense of incognito is like a litmus test for terrible people.

By all reports, the locker room wasn't toxic until Martin threw a hissy fit about it and reporters invaded like a bunch of locusts. If you don't believe that the Pats bust one another's balls in a similar fashion behind closed doors, then I'm not sure what to tell you. It's a locker room. Immature and sick senses of humor run rampant. This is an excellent example.

And, again, African American teammates by and large publicly BACKED Incognito. Not Martin. What say you about that?

 

[mayoclinic]

His target audience was a football locker room. Not sure about you, but literally every locker room I've been has carried an immature sense of humor. It's a bench of testosterone fueled manly men in there together. Naturally, that kind of humor is going to prevail in there whereas it generally would be looked down upon in society.

Being inappropriately immature, homophobic, bigoted, and bullying is not "manly". That stereotype and the behavior associated with it needs to change.

 

[ripatsfan91]

Good locker rooms start with good room mates

That is awesome lol

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

martin shouldn't be in a locker room..maybe chess?

 

[Nunchucks]

By all reports, the locker room wasn't toxic until Martin threw a hissy fit about it and reporters invaded like a bunch of locusts. If you don't believe that the Pats bust one another's balls in a similar fashion behind closed doors, then I'm not sure what to tell you. It's a locker room. Immature and sick senses of humor run rampant. This is an excellent example.

And, again, African American teammates by and large publicly BACKED Incognito. Not Martin. What say you about that?

Right, the locker room was fine. That is why the Dolphins continue to suck.

 

[Brock Samson]

His target audience was a football locker room. Not sure about you, but literally every locker room I've been has carried an immature sense of humor. It's a bench of testosterone fueled manly men in there together. Naturally, that kind of humor is going to prevail in there whereas it generally would be looked down upon in society.

Ah, it's just "boys being boys". I see now.

 

[Brock Samson]

And, again, African American teammates by and large publicly BACKED Incognito. Not Martin. What say you about that?

Yeah, blacks love jokes about buying better guns and scopes to kill blacks. The litmus test works it seems.

 

[Nunchucks]

I like how people defend bad behavior by saying "but it has always been that way"

Which of course is the best excuse for bad behavior and to not change.

 

[Ring 6]

Is it wussification of America to consider making immature jokes about ones mother, family, or shooting black people out of bounds behavior?

I mean seriously? How old are these people?

Many of them are just out of college, and since they were teenagers have gotten special treatment because of their athletic ability and have rarely had any consequence for their action.
If your point is why aren't NFL players more mature, my answer would be, DUH.

But I think it is important to recognize that these comments were mostly ball busting. The report actually found that Incognito had no malicious intent.

I'm sorry but if we are going to find the joke by the coach egregious we are looking too hard.
One player on the OL was the target of gay jokes. He wasn't gay, but that was the joke in the locker room. The asst coach gave out blow up dolls for christmas presents and his was a male.
If our standard is you can never make someone the butt of a joke, then this is awful, but should that really be the standard?

In the end, what was done was unfair to Martin because it bothered him. But to lynch the players for doing it in an atmosphere where it is commonplace and when the investigation clearly finds no malice is a reach to me.

 

[Deus Irae]

Incognito gets railroaded by a P.C. finding that claims it's not being P.C.. What a surprise.

 

[Ring 6]

I object to the "this happens in every NFL locker room" stuff. No, it happens in NFL locker rooms where teams aren't focused on winning games.

Do you think Bill Belichick lets players get away with douche-baggery and write it off as boys being boys? No. Hell no.

This reflects poorly on the Dolphins organization and their commitment to winning. It's about culture. The Pats have a strong, good culture; other organizations don't.

Even putting aside right & wrong, whether you think its being soft or not, getting rid of stupid stuff like this makes you more competitive. It's the opposite of team-building, and coaches have to control this stuff.

I think you are wrong. I think the same type of stuff goes on in the Patriots lockerroom, but probably to a lesser degree. Lets not pretend the Patriots are sitting around the campfire singing cumbaya because all 53 players are robots.

 

[Kontradiction]

Being inappropriately immature, homophobic, bigoted, and bullying is not "manly". That stereotype and the behavior associated with it needs to change.

Why weren't those remarks seen throughout the locker room more familiar with the two players than any of us as bigoted? Why did they publicly go to bat for Incognito? And, most of all, why did they call him a "brotha", even though he's a white guy talking about shooting black people? Answer: because they realized that he was busting balls. Remarks like that will fly in your typical NFL locker room where they don't in society.

 

[Brock Samson]

The Japanese-born trainer was apparently the subject of repeated abuse from Richie Incognito, John Jerry and Mike Pouncey.

The report says they referred to him as “Jap,” “Chinaman,” a “dirty communist” or a “North Korean,” and would make demands such as “give me some water you f—ing chink.”

There were also lewd remarks relating to massages, and Incognito admitted making the remarks to the trainer.

Yeah, it's just political correctness. Nothing to see here, folks....

 

[Kontradiction]

Right, the locker room was fine. That is why the Dolphins continue to suck.

The Dolphins posted their best record in years and effectively took home field advantage away from us even with a locker room that was severely torn apart. Your hypothesis doesn't work

Ah, it's just "boys being boys". I see now.

Yeah, blacks love jokes about buying better guns and scopes to kill blacks. The litmus test works it seems.

They apparently didn't mind it, unless you have some way of showing me that they, by and large, ever condemned Incognito for it. Since you don't, it might be best to just admit that I'm right here and mosey along back to the Political forum at the bottom of this message board. But if you want to dig your heels in on this one, it should at least be entertaining.

 

[BradyManny]

I think you are wrong. I think the same type of stuff goes on in the Patriots lockerroom, but probably to a lesser degree. Lets not pretend the Patriots are sitting around the campfire singing cumbaya because all 53 players are robots.

Lesser degree being the key word here, and I think you are severely underestimating how far apart those degrees are. There's a line, and its when it hurts team chemistry.

Belichick's never going to let anything go if it jeopardizes the team's chances of winning.

Belichick isn't outspoken on a lot of things, but he was on the hazing issue, and I take him at his word that he takes it seriously. It's not just lip-service. Everything we've seen from the team and heard players and former players about that locker room suggest he was being sincere.

 

[Nunchucks]

The Japanese-born trainer was apparently the subject of repeated abuse from Richie Incognito, John Jerry and Mike Pouncey.

The report says they referred to him as “Jap,” “Chinaman,” a “dirty communist” or a “North Korean,” and would make demands such as “give me some water you f—ing chink.”

There were also lewd remarks relating to massages, and Incognito admitted making the remarks to the trainer.

On Dec. 7, 2012, the anniversary of the invasion of Pearl Harbor, the three players took it to another level.

The report says they “donned traditional Japanese headbands that featured a rising sun emblem (which the Assistant Trainer had given them) and jokingly threatened to harm the Assistant Trainer physically in retaliation for the Pearl Harbor attack.”

The trainer initially avoided many of the questions from investigators, and tried to downplay some of the claims, though the report concluded: “We did not find the Assistant Trainer’s denials believable.”

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Yeah, great guys, messing with a low level coach.....