How much does this SB loss damage Peyton Manning's legacy?

[Joker]

Peyton has thrown the same amount of TD passes in his 3 SBs, as Brady in his 3rd year against CAR.

Think about how that looks...

hmmmm...tough one....I guess I'm gonna go with...THIS------->

 

[Dutchmaster617]

Re: After last night...

It's one thing to score fewer points than your season average. But the margins were way off. I mean, say the Pats score 10 fewer points than their 2011 average. They win the Super Bowl. They could have scored 18 fewer than their 2007 average, and they win that one too.

In both those games, they way underperformed offensively.

What about the defense that intercepted so many passes in those years, that did nothing to Eli Manning in the SB? The offense at least helped us seal a win.

 

[Patriot Missile]

The one thing you can never take away from TB is he put his team ahead in the closing minutes of his 2"losses. The defense didn't get it done and came up small.

The one chink being he might of been able to throw that ball a little better to Welker. However I still think it should of been caught.

 

[1960Pats]

Saints had a pretty good defense. They were hard hitting and created a lot of turnovers.

I usually refer to points allowed. IIRC they were 20th.

My only point was that there are times when a better defense loses, and in that case it was because of P6's poor performance. The defense did okay for Indy but P6 managed to overcome that.

 

[ivanvamp]

Re: After last night...

What about the defense that intercepted so many passes in those years, that did nothing to Eli Manning in the SB? The offense at least helped us seal a win.

My comment was just with respect to the offense. But I'm on record here giving plenty of blame on the defense too. Those losses were total team efforts.

 

[1960Pats]

Peyton has thrown the same amount of TD passes in his 3 SBs, as Brady in his 3rd year against CAR.

Think about how that looks...

It looks even stranger when you realize that Brady's TDs against the Panthers came in a game that set a record for the longest stretch of scoreless play in a SB.

 

[Koma]

the excuses are already coming out. they played Troy Aikmans comment on felger and mazz

"it obviously wouldve meant something if he had won, but I dont think you can hold the loss against him"

soooo if manning wins he gets all the credit. But if he loses we are supposed to forget it even happened.

Just wait. By late September, Manning will dissect some overmatched team for 500 yards and 6 TDs, the Broncos will be 3-0 and we'll hear how they have to be considered the Super Bowl favorite.

What happened Sunday, and last year, and so on, will be forgotten.

 

[Joker]

Just wait. By late September, Manning will dissect some overmatched team for 500 yards and 6 TDs, the Broncos will be 3-0 and we'll hear how they have to be considered the Super Bowl favorite.

What happened Sunday, and last year, and so on, will be forgotten.

not forgotten...it was already blueprinted BEFORE this last game.."if Peyton wins he's the greatest!!! If he doesn't it won't have any effect whatsoever.."...insert just about ANY sports mediot you care to from the pregame week gagfest.Dilfer must have pimped this party line a thousand times on air.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

not forgotten...it was already blueprinted BEFORE this last game.."if Peyton wins he's the greatest!!! If he doesn't it won't have any effect whatsoever.."...insert just about ANY sports mediot you care to from the pregame week gagfest.Dilfer must have pimped this party line a thousand times on air.

Sounds like they were anticipating defeat, had this been a 10 point lost, i don't think it would have affected his legacy that much but a 43-8 loss takes the cake.

 

[Deus Irae]

Sounds like they were anticipating defeat, had this been a 10 point lost, i don't think it would have affected his legacy that much but a 43-8 loss takes the cake.

They were doing the same thing in the lead up to the Patriots game. It was going to be a team thing.




Then the Broncos won, and suddenly it was all about Manning for 2 weeks.

 

[scout]

Callahan nailed it in today's Herald. Peyton is no longer in the conversation.

Callahan: Best QB conversation no longer is Peyton?s place | Boston Herald

 

[NormZauchin]

Re: After last night...

This is spot-on. We never will know what Montana would have done had he gone to three more Super Bowls, because, well, he did NOT go to three more Super Bowls. He *did* have some bad playoff games:

1/6/85 vs Chi: 18-34 (52.9%), 233 yds, 1 td, 2 int
1/4/87 vs NYG: 8-15 (53.3%), 98 yds, 0 td, 2 int
1/9/88 vs Min: 12-26 (46.2%), 109 yds, 0 td, 1 int
1/23/94 vs Buf: 9-23 (39.1%), 125 yds, 0 td, 1 int

So it's not like it's impossible to imagine him having a bad game in a Super Bowl. The more times you get there, the more likely it is you're going to lose eventually. Mariano Rivera is the greatest closer in baseball history, but he's blown a LOT of games. How? Because he's constantly in a position to save the biggest games of the year. Nobody is perfect, and losing and failing is all part of it.

Anybody who holds Brady's 2 SB losses against him compared to a guy like Aikman, for example, who never lost (and they have the same # of SB wins) is crazy. Because Brady has been to two more SBs than Aikman did!!!

I agree that Brady's two SB losses shouldn't be held against him, but to explain Montana's status as GOAT in many people's minds, you have to look at his virtually flawless performance (127.8 QB rating, 11 touchdowns, no interceptions) in his four SuperBowls. People don't remember playoff losses like they do the play on the big stage. That is why Peyton's latest defeat permanently harms his legacy.

 

[Bella*chick]

Callahan nailed it in today's Herald. Peyton is no longer in the conversation.

Callahan: Best QB conversation no longer is Peyton?s place | Boston Herald

I don't know who was on Kornheiser's show today but he said the same thing. He's out of the conversation (but watch the whole thing start over again when he comes out with gaudy stats in the first few games next year. The media gets sucked in EVERY time.)

 

[Ivan]

Sure, there is nothing contradictory about that.
Manning closed the gap on Brady this year. But the gap is so enormous it is barely noticeable.

If it weren't for the SB this would be true, he made up ground until that game. The SB took him out of the GOAT discussion, and nothing short of winning the next 2 SB's will get him back in it. That game won't affect his standing as an all time great QB, but it did end the GOAT talk, at least for now. Even his staunchest defenders (Pollian, Dungy.....) would have a next to impossible time making that argument with a straight face.

 

[Joker]

I'm a little sheepish about admitting this but it's been decades and I'm straight and narrow these days BUT...I made a helluva lot of money on Joe Montana, my friends. Mid six figures over the course of his career. Season after season he was the horse you want in the race.Best QB against the spread during the regular season I have ever seen.

The league was different then. Teams stayed intact longer. Matchups carried over season to season with an addition here or a subtraction there tipping the balances between teams and conferences. Joe Montana was as bona fide a sure thing as I ever ran across in the world of wagering.

 

[Deus Irae]

 

[Joker]

as for Manning to Brady I offer only what I've seen...Brady has had tougher games and losses as the years pass but when he's lost Super Bowls, it's not because he didn't have his team IN POSITION to win it. In both losses, the Pats had a better than good chance to win. In Manning's two losses he has been destroyed. In his lone Super Bowl win, he was matched against a team with "who's that?????" QB......

The Colts prevailed over the Bears 29-17 on Sunday, but Manning would be wise to send a thank-you note to Chicago quarterback Rex Grossman. Much-maligned Grossman will be savaged even more after throwing a fourth-quarter interception to defensive back Kelvin Hayden that was returned 56 yards for the game-changing touchdown.

Manning, who completed 25 of 38 passes for 247 yards and one touchdown and threw one interception, was named the game's MVP. Afterward, he deflected at least a half-dozen attempts to elicit a comment about the perception -- after a series of playoff losses -- that he is now a winner.

THAT is Manning's Super Bowl body of work...one must be a profoundly ******ed, near vegetable football fan to even think of making any comparison with Brady and his body of work in Super Bowls.

 

[Ivan]

I don't know who was on Kornheiser's show today but he said the same thing. He's out of the conversation (but watch the whole thing start over again when he comes out with gaudy stats in the first few games next year. The media gets sucked in EVERY time.)

I actually think it will be a different conversation next season. he can put up all the numbers he wants but short of going to the SB, winning it, and playing great in it he will be considered short of the mark. This was his chance to go over .500 for both the play-offs and the SB and he failed on both counts in one game, as well has playing like crap in the biggest game of his career. He could put himself back in the discussion by winning it all next season and playing great when it matters, but it would still take at least one more after that to give him a realistic argument, and as good as he is i think his arm strength is fading fast and don't see him being able to get that done.

I actually think the discussion has moved for Manning and it will be a Top Four All Time (Mt. Rushmore) argument and not a GOAT argument anymore. Right now Brady is the only one who has the argument to make for GOAT against Montana, Manning is trying to beat out Marino, Elway, Unitas, Graham (? really different era) for the last 2 spots on the Mt.

 

[Boogs]

If it weren't for the SB this would be true, he made up ground until that game. The SB took him out of the GOAT discussion, and nothing short of winning the next 2 SB's will get him back in it. That game won't affect his standing as an all time great QB, but it did end the GOAT talk, at least for now. Even his staunchest defenders (Pollian, Dungy.....) would have a next to impossible time making that argument with a straight face.

Manning looked soft mentally on Sunday. We know he's soft physically. No real physical attributes anymore. He beats you with his timing and finesse. But you rough him up, or make it hard for him, and it just looked like he folded. He doesn't strike me as a good leader either when the going gets tough.

 

[Joker]

Manning looked soft mentally on Sunday. We know he's soft physically. No real physical attributes anymore. He beats you with his timing and finesse. But you rough him up, or make it hard for him, and it just looked like he folded. He doesn't strike me as a good leader either when the going gets tough.

well, yoiu nailed it IMO, Boogs. That is why I picked Seattle with such conviction on this board, something I rarely ever do. I KNOW Manning's Achilles heel is moving him off his spot. They only sacked him once BUT they moved him off his spot almost at will, and you saw the result.

Good defenses rattle Brady by HITTING him as he moves in the pocket. Manning just needs to be moved off his spot and his throws become less than mundane..seriously.Look at the game evidence.This is why you see the Denver O line go to any lengths to keep Manning on his spot,to the point of holding, clutching and grabbing from behind on every snap sometimes. I saw it all season in the games I broke down. In fact , he threw a large percentage of these wobble duck floaters that his receivers made great plays on in the open field. Seattle took care of THAT by smashing the receivers hard right from the start. By the second half, it seemed only Welker and Thomas were still willing to put their bodies on the line.