Brady's playoff performances

[LightSkinSmurf]

If he's the greatest of all time (he's not), then he would do better than "good enough". And obviously 14 and 17 weren't good enough because they lost. One would think in five cracks he would be able to actually put a team away rather than having it come down to fluke plays. Why is every game a 3 or 4 point difference? The highest scoring offense couldn't manage more than 2 piddly TD's against a team they scored 38 on a month earlier? Or how about closing the deal with a TD to make it 24-15 so we have no BS hail mary to Manningham? I also think it's funny that when they win, it's all him, but when they lose, it's everyone else's fault.

Good post and I find that funny as well.

 

[condon84]

The fact that our defense averaged about 16-17 points per game in the high majority of those 9 postseason games throughout our SB runs of '01, '03, and '04 had a LOT to do with Tom Brady's success too.

I would think that if our defense were able to hold the opposition to 16-17 points per game in the postseason, he'd have a much better record, along with another ring, possibly even two.

Look at the points that our defense has given up just recently:

09 BAL--33
10 NYJ--28
11 NYG--21
12 BAL--28
13 DEN--26

In 4/5 recent losses, our defense has given up between 26-33 points. That is in comparison to the 16-17 on average that they gave up during that postseason stretch (the outlier being the AFCCG where we won 41-27 in 2004, but even then we had the game well in hand and gave up some meaningless "garbage time" points).

Yes, Brady may not be winning as many games in the past 3-4 years, but he's also putting up numbers that are often "good enough" had the defense just done their jobs. When you give up important 4th quarter points in many of these postseason games ('06 AFCCG, '07 SB, '10 NYJ, '11 SB, '12 BAL) that tends to change things quite a bit.

The bottom line is that our defense cannot continue to allow the opposition to score deep into the high 20's/early 30's and still expect to somehow win. That's ridiculous. It's just not playoff football.

I understand that our defense has not played well at times, but at the same time, Brady should have elevated his game and directed the offense to score the necessary points. That's what we should expect from someone who is in the running for GOAT QB. Otherwise, someone could easily say he only won his SBs when his defense carried him. Brady has had ample opportunity the past 5 years to squash that argument, but he's come up short with him not playing his usual self in the loss.

We all love Brady here, except for the trolls. But the reality is staring us right in the face. He's got to play better.

 

[upstater1]

I understand that our defense has not played well at times, but at the same time, Brady should have elevated his game and directed the offense to score the necessary points. That's what we should expect from someone who is in the running for GOAT QB. Otherwise, someone could easily say he only won his SBs when his defense carried him. Brady has had ample opportunity the past 5 years to squash that argument, but he's come up short with him not playing his usual self in the loss.

We all love Brady here, except for the trolls. But the reality is staring us right in the face. He's got to play better.

There is a lot wrong with this post.

Did the defense carry him against the Panthers? They gave up 29 points in 30 minutes. Brady had a top 5 Super Bowl performance in passing yards. Anyone who claims the defense carried him forgets about all the injuries in the secondary.

Even against the Giants in 2012, he made 21 consecutive completions, and the defense was on the field the entire 1st quarter. He had a good game that day.

It is hard for me to believe that Brady lost it in one offseason from an offense that was the 4th best of all time in 2012-2013 to this year. What was the key difference? Weapons. Brady missed those throws yesterday. Unfortunately, he didn't get as many chances as Manning did. And Manning missed several throws as well. A bomb to D Thomas, Decker wide open in the end zone, etc. Brady's execution needed to be perfect because of the very small margin of error of relying on Matthew Slater and Austin collie, and Hooman, etc.

 

[reflexblue]

the man has got to learn to throw the deep ball better....

How about if he had a better O-line then he'd have more time to throw. And if he had Better down field receivers instead of a group of slot receivers he might get better results.

 

[DaBronxPats14]

How about if he had a better O-line then he'd have more time to throw. And if he had Better down field receivers instead of a group of slot receivers he might get better results.

And a healthy Gronk and Talib would have gave us a legit shot of winnin it all especially after Broncos game comin back from a 24pts down with all adversities sustanted by this team.

Give Brady his full weapons on offense then we can talk about his performances. Give'm credit for those comebacks this year.

 

[PattieswinSB]

14 points? You mean when they scored the go ahead TD to Moss with 3 min remaining in the first SB vs the NYG to go ahead 14-10? Who was it that immediately allowed the opposition to (once again) march down the field and score the game winning TD late in the 4th quarter? The defense....

How about your other example of "coming up small" in the second SB? Once again, they had the lead 17-15, and yet the defense allowed the second backbreaking late 4th quarter TD drive of 80+ yards at the last possible chance.

Both instances the offense scored "enough" to win the game, and in both instances the defense allowed backbreaking 80+ yard drives that resulted in TDs.

I don't see anyone complaining about Eli Manning "only" scoring 10 and 15 prior to the final moments of each game...only lauding him for being a 2x SB champ. That's the way it goes. Brady only scored 20 pts in the first SB, and 24 in the 3rd, yet the defense was stout enough to hold onto those leads.

All you need to do is look at the past 5 big game losses to see that any defense that allows between 26-33 points isn't going to put their team in much of a chance to win it.

The defense did not lose those Giants SB's. That was all on the offense. They scored 14 and 17. The Giants had 2 of the 3 worst scoring defenses in history to win a SB while the Patriots had 2 of the highest scoring offenses in history.

The Patriots had 4 of the top 14 scoring offenses in history:
07- 2nd highest scoring
12- 4th highest
10- 12th highest
11- 14th highest

Do you know what those offenses scored in the playoff losses? 14, 13, 21 (7 garbage time points), and 17. That's about 16 PPG for offenses that averaged over double of that. The offense choked and Brady is part of that.

 

[brdmaverick]

I understand that our defense has not played well at times, but at the same time, Brady should have elevated his game and directed the offense to score the necessary points.

Super Bowl 38

 

[upstater1]

The defense did not lose those Giants SB's. That was all on the offense. They scored 14 and 17. The Giants had 2 of the 3 worst scoring defenses in history to win a SB while the Patriots had 2 of the highest scoring offenses in history.

The Patriots had 4 of the top 14 scoring offenses in history:
07- 2nd highest scoring
12- 4th highest
10- 12th highest
11- 14th highest

Do you know what those offenses scored in the playoff losses? 14, 13, 21 (7 garbage time points), and 17. That's about 16 PPG for offenses that averaged over double of that. The offense choked and Brady is part of that.

Maybe the defense should do a better job of handing the ball to the offense in the 2nd quarter instead of getting pushed around the entire 1st quarter. That would help. Jut like Sunday. The offense got its second possession in the middle of the second quarter. In the 2012 Super Bowl, you had a huge drive for the Giants, the ridiculous safety, then another drive, and the Patriots have 3 qtrs left to do any work. 10 points in the 2nd qtr. 7 in the 3rd. And a drive in the 4th that's killed by dumb running play after 5 consecutive completions, the Welker drop comes next. About the only big failure that game was when Brady was injured for probably the hardest hit I've ever seen him take, he had no time to throw, so he rolled to the right out of the pass rush, and threw a duck 50 yard downfield to Gronk (INT by Blackburn). It was clear Brady didn't have arm strength there.

This is how Brady throws a bomb in such a situation:

Randy Moss SB 42 almost catch - YouTube

 

[SteveBsFan]

I understand that our defense has not played well at times, but at the same time, Brady should have elevated his game and directed the offense to score the necessary points. That's what we should expect from someone who is in the running for GOAT QB. Otherwise, someone could easily say he only won his SBs when his defense carried him. Brady has had ample opportunity the past 5 years to squash that argument, but he's come up short with him not playing his usual self in the loss.

We all love Brady here, except for the trolls. But the reality is staring us right in the face. He's got to play better.

I'm torn on the Brady playoff issue. He has never really been a huge playoff performer.

A lot of people want the Brady of old, but that Brady likely wouldn't have even made it as deep into the playoffs as often as the Pats have since 2004. He has pretty much carried the team on his back since the old guard retired, and unfortunately we as fans have become used to that. When they lose, many think he's just sucking, but looking at the numbers, he's still playing solid.

Take a look at these two lines...

21 cmp - 34 att - 217 yards - 1.2 TD - 0.3 INT
27 cmp - 43 att - 279 yards - 1.5 TD - 0.5 INT

This first are Brady's averages through his first 9 playoff games (9-0, 3 SB), the second is his average from his losing performances from 2007-2013 minus Baltimore where he flat out sucked both times he faced them.

(note: I used losing numbers because his winning numbers would have made the average even better, and I removed Baltimore because they have his number and nobody is denying he failed those years)

I think the issue is not so much Brady, but the Pats never really regaining the veteran presence they had on defense, or picking up some clutch performers on offense.

Sadly, every year he loses these big games puts more pressure on him, and you can see it in his performances. He knows if he doesn't put up the game of his life every week in January, the season is over. Whether some want to believe it or not, he is human and that's a lot to deal with.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

How about if he had a better O-line then he'd have more time to throw. And if he had Better down field receivers instead of a group of slot receivers he might get better results.

he had open players against denver. he just missed them. the one to edelman had nothing to do with the "quality of receiver" or that he is a "slot receiver." that's FOUR straight AFCCGs that brady has played subpar, including the one against San Diego. you take away the underneath stuff, and brady struggles. look at russell wilson and how flawlessly he throws the deep ball - his receivers are nothing special, yet he is able to do it.

 

[Nehalem]

Well judging by the past 3 years he plays well in the divisional round and then stinks it up in the AFCCG. Just have to find a way to trick him into thinking the AFCCG is really the divisional round

 

[DocHoliday]

he had open players against denver. he just missed them. the one to edelman had nothing to do with the "quality of receiver" or that he is a "slot receiver." that's FOUR straight AFCCGs that brady has played subpar, including the one against San Diego. you take away the underneath stuff, and brady struggles. look at russell wilson and how flawlessly he throws the deep ball - his receivers are nothing special, yet he is able to do it.

Seattle has good deep receivers. They have no inside passing game though.

 

[heavyde050]

The defense did not lose those Giants SB's. That was all on the offense. They scored 14 and 17. The Giants had 2 of the 3 worst scoring defenses in history to win a SB while the Patriots had 2 of the highest scoring offenses in history.

The Patriots had 4 of the top 14 scoring offenses in history:
07- 2nd highest scoring
12- 4th highest
10- 12th highest
11- 14th highest

Do you know what those offenses scored in the playoff losses? 14, 13, 21 (7 garbage time points), and 17. That's about 16 PPG for offenses that averaged over double of that. The offense choked and Brady is part of that.

I know the offense's job is to score points, but when you get your team the lead with about 2 minutes to go and the defense just gives it right back, it is on them.

FWIW we would not be having this conversation if Tyree does not make the catch of a lifetime and Welker could hold onto a catchable pass.

 

[upstater1]

he had open players against denver. he just missed them. the one to edelman had nothing to do with the "quality of receiver" or that he is a "slot receiver." that's FOUR straight AFCCGs that brady has played subpar, including the one against San Diego. you take away the underneath stuff, and brady struggles. look at russell wilson and how flawlessly he throws the deep ball - his receivers are nothing special, yet he is able to do it.

You guys are way too hasrsh. In the San Diego game, they jumped out to a lead and took the air out of the ball. I was there. At no time were the Patriots even threatened. Rivers was crippled. He couldn't throw 10 feet. After they built the lead, Brady didn't even bother throwing any difficult balls. They went into a shell.

It was totally a question of receivers yesterday. if they get open, no one bothers pointing out the overthrows. Is anyone pointing out Peyton's multiple overthrows today? No, he kept his offense moving and had plenty of shots. Say Slater was a real receiver who could pull down that 50 yarder. Things change instantly if he can do that.

 

[condon84]

You guys are way too hasrsh. In the San Diego game, they jumped out to a lead and took the air out of the ball. I was there. At no time were the Patriots even threatened. Rivers was crippled. He couldn't throw 10 feet. After they built the lead, Brady didn't even bother throwing any difficult balls. They went into a shell.

It was totally a question of receivers yesterday. if they get open, no one bothers pointing out the overthrows. Is anyone pointing out Peyton's multiple overthrows today? No, he kept his offense moving and had plenty of shots. Say Slater was a real receiver who could pull down that 50 yarder. Things change instantly if he can do that.

How is it a question of receivers when he had guys open he didn't hit?

That 3rd down throw to Slater, Edelman was wide open in the middle for a first down.

That overthrown pass to Edelman should have been a TD.

That Collie overhthrown pass could have resulted in a TD, at least set up for a FG.

Those are three critical mistakes Brady made. He gets a first down on our second drive with an easy pass to Edelman, they get in a rhythm, we score points and put pressure on Peyton's offense.

Even if we didn't do that on our second drive, had Brady hit Edelman when he was open deep, we score a TD and go up 7-3. Way different game. Puts pressure on Peyton, gives our defense confidence.

And finally, if he hits Collie on that deep pass, even if we only score a FG, at least it makes the score 10-6, which at that time would have been huge considering we didn't do jack on offense.

When Peyton overthrew his receivers, he usually came back and converted on 3rd downs. We didn't.

In a game that Brady had to be as good as Peyton, keep converting on 3rd downs and keep him off the field, the few critical mistakes he made WAS the game. That is truth man. Our defense was never going to stop Peyton. That offense is way too good for our offense to go 3 and out multiple times.

 

[zipster9]

Seattle has good deep receivers. They have no inside passing game though.

It's possible that Bradys' accuracy, down the field (middle, sides) is not good, because they do this very infrequent. Now, if we do have a burner, Bradys' accuracy could improve.

Those 2 deep throws would've been perfect, had Peyton threw them.

 

[condon84]

I'm torn on the Brady playoff issue. He has never really been a huge playoff performer.

A lot of people want the Brady of old, but that Brady likely wouldn't have even made it as deep into the playoffs as often as the Pats have since 2004. He has pretty much carried the team on his back since the old guard retired, and unfortunately we as fans have become used to that. When they lose, many think he's just sucking, but looking at the numbers, he's still playing solid.

Take a look at these two lines...

21 cmp - 34 att - 217 yards - 1.2 TD - 0.3 INT
27 cmp - 43 att - 279 yards - 1.5 TD - 0.5 INT

This first are Brady's averages through his first 9 playoff games (9-0, 3 SB), the second is his average from his losing performances from 2007-2013 minus Baltimore where he flat out sucked both times he faced them.

(note: I used losing numbers because his winning numbers would have made the average even better, and I removed Baltimore because they have his number and nobody is denying he failed those years)

I think the issue is not so much Brady, but the Pats never really regaining the veteran presence they had on defense, or picking up some clutch performers on offense.

Sadly, every year he loses these big games puts more pressure on him, and you can see it in his performances. He knows if he doesn't put up the game of his life every week in January, the season is over. Whether some want to believe it or not, he is human and that's a lot to deal with.

This is true.

But since we've elevated Brady into the GOAT discussion, much is expected individually from him. Even more so than what he did his first 4 years. And he has put up numbers in the regular season. We've all seen him go nuts in the regular season befitting of GOAT discussion. But that hasn't necessarily translated into the same performance in the playoffs.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

One thought worth noting:

Patriots' 18 playoff wins since 2001: 44 takeaways (2.4/game)
Patriots' 8 playoff losses since 2001: 5 takeaways (0.6/game)

 

[convertedpatsfan]

Play-offs are small sample sizes to begin with, so expecting significant differences in win-loss margins is ridiculous. Only the guy who wins the Super Bowl will have a pretty decent win-loss margin. If a top-seeded QB makes it to the Super Bowl, they still only end up 2-1, hardly a significant change.

So to look at Brady's mark of 8-8 after the 10-0 start as terrible is really just misguided.

Aaron Rodgers is 1-3 since his Super Bowl victory (and 1-5 outside of his Super Bowl year).

Peyton Manning is 4-5 since his Super Bowl victory.

Drew Brees is 2-3 since his Super Bowl victory.

Big Ben is 2-2 since his Super Bowl victory which could be worse considering the Steelers have missed the play-offs 3 of the 5 years since.

Eli Manning is 8-0 in his two Super Bowl runs and 0-3 the rest of the time. He's truly a boom-or-bust kind of guy in the play-offs, either going all the way or one-and-done, and the team has missed the play-offs entirely 4 times in 6 years since his first SB victory. He went 4-0, one-and-done, missed the play-offs a few years in a row, then 4-0 again, then missed the play-offs.

Kurt Warner is 6-4 since his Super Bowl with the Rams, a mark helped by two more trips to the Super Bowl.

This is true with previous QBs as well.

Joe Montana was 12-0 in his Super Bowl runs, and 4-7 the rest of the time, including a 3-3 mark after his last Super Bowl.

Troy Aikmen won 3 Super Bowls, but finished his career 1-3 after that.

Brett Favre went 6-8 after his Super Bowl, a mark helped by a return to the Super Bowl which they lost.

None of the QBs above is a terrible QB, and they all have won Super Bowls and can't be considered terrible play-off QBs. It's just simple math. If you don't win the Super Bowl, your win-loss record isn't going to be significantly different.

 

[pheenix11]

Maybe losing to Peyton in the playoffs will motivate him next year. Everyone seems to be questioning his ability in the postseason given his lackluster performances lately. Perhaps he will have a bigger chip on his shoulder than ever as a result.

We've been saying that (myself included) for the past 7 years.