ESPNBoston mock draft results

[Claremonster]

I would love to hear the Patriots brain thrust on Justin Hunter, the tall blazing WR from Tennessee. Do they see him as the home run threat that defenses will have to keep a safety back to defend, opening up the middle?

Besides his 6'4" frame and elite speed and acceleration, his jumping ability is almost literally Olympian. That way he can go up and grab the ball over defender's heads--even if they can stay with him stride for stride.

I have a feeling he's higher on the Pats draft board than we would expect. He competed for a spot on the Olympics for the long jump: Mike Strange: Olympic dream over, but Justin Hunter content with football » GoVolsXtra

He might not be available at 29.

 

[mgteich]

I think Werner will be gone also. But yes, I would draft Werener if he were there.

If we stay at 29, I think that Taylor (CB), Hunter (WR) or Williams (DT) are the most likely. I would choose Taylor.

Yep. I do think Allen is going to be there when they pick, and i would be really curious to see who everyone would take if this draft was what took place and no trade was available at a decent price.

So, the question to you and anyone else who wants to answer is: Given that draft board who do YOU take at 29 (not who you think the Patriots will take)


I would take Bjorn Werner DE FSU. Much as I want a WR I think Werner's upside as a pass rusher to complement to jones is simply to much to pass on and to hard to find later in the draft.

 

[Rob0729]

Hah -- just posted on the Draft board about this, and how I was surprised to see that National Football Post has Allen rated their top receiver. Their report on him makes him sound like a good get at 29.

That said, yeah, I could see the Pats trading out for more value, if they can find a trade partner. Not sure I can sum up the energy to invest in watching the proceedings Thursday night — all that anticipation for a likely trade out at the end. Of course you never know.

Actually several draft books I saw that are published before the Combine had Allen #1 at WR too.

 

[chasa]

And yes, the wide receiver position is position of great need, and IMHO, "trainwreck" is an accurate assessment.

Patriot fans have gotten pretty ******* spoiled when a top 10 offense(again just trading welker and lloyds numbers for amendola and jones last year) is considered the "train wreck" part of our team, despite the fact that we had one of the worst defenses again last year.

 

[Claremonster]

The Margus Hunt guy reminds me of Seabass somewhat.

I bet you could make him useful on both sides of the ball. He could switch to tight end when Gonk hurts himself in the postseason.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

As I've said, there are more polished pass rushers in this draft that don't rely on their raw talent as much as Hunt has.

Are you knocking Hunt for not having the technique that other, less athletic, pass rushers in this draft have?

You do undertstand that technique can be taught.

I don't know if BB is going to take a pass rusher high. Past drafts say he is not, but if he does, I would not be upset with BB taking an athletic "boom or bust" freak.

 

[Deus Irae]

Patriot fans have gotten pretty ******* spoiled when a top 10 offense(again just trading welker and lloyds numbers for amendola and jones last year) is considered the "train wreck" part of our team, despite the fact that we had one of the worst defenses again last year.

You should, perhaps, learn the difference between the entire offense of 2012, and the WR corps, as of now, of 2013.

 

[patfanken]

I see who you would compare to Brown. But I'm just curious as to who is currently on our staff that you would compare to Givens and Branch.

Size, speed, etc Givens and Jones are very similar. Comparing Edelman and Branch is more of a stretch. Edelman is much more of a dynamic player after the catch, but not nearly the route runner Branch was, at least to date. But my point is that I'm not separating the receiver corps into WR/TE slots. Both Hernandez and Gronk are better "receivers" than anyone from those 2001-2004 teams, so if the next 3 options are only "just as good", the offense should thrive.

I did a write up on Margus Hunt yesterday that even got a like from a guy that I was arguing with who I'd wager has just as much, if not more, of a grasp on this current draft as anybody on this forum. He's athletic, no doubt. But so was Vernon Gholston. As I've said, there are

more polished pass rushers in this draft that don't rely on their raw talent as much as Hunt has.

I'd appreciate seeing that write up. I saw a scouting report on Hunt in the NFP write up early in the thread. I thought it did a nice job pointing out the pros and cons on this kid. Very realistic imo. They have him as a late 2nd round prospect.

I don't think the Gholston comparison is fair. This kid has a great motor, its just an issue of experience. Do you think full time professional coaching will fill in the missing pieces of his game. Since the Pats never get the chance to draft really elite athletic talents at the bottom of every round, why not take a shot at a kid at 59, that would be a top ten pick if he had more experience and wasn't so raw. Granted there's a chance he "is what he is" and will never improve beyond what you see now. But the way I see it, THIS is point in the draft that you take a shot. BTW- my biggest concern is his age (25)

 

[Kontradiction]

I would love to hear the Patriots brain thrust on Justin Hunter, the tall blazing WR from Tennessee. Do they see him as the home run threat that defenses will have to keep a safety back to defend, opening up the middle?

Besides his 6'4" frame and elite speed and acceleration, his jumping ability is almost literally Olympian. That way he can go up and grab the ball over defender's heads--even if they can stay with him stride for stride.

I have a feeling he's higher on the Pats draft board than we would expect. He competed for a spot on the Olympics for the long jump: Mike Strange: Olympic dream over, but Justin Hunter content with football » GoVolsXtra

Hunter has been my favorite WR of this draft for some time. That said, I expect him to go higher than where the Pats are picking and I don't see the team trading up in this draft.

Are you knocking Hunt for not having the technique that other, less athletic, pass rushers in this draft have?

You do undertstand that technique can be taught.

I don't know if BB is going to take a pass rusher high. Past drafts say he is not, but if he does, I would not be upset with BB taking an athletic "boom or bust" freak.

I'm low on Hunt for a multitude of reasons. Technique is one of them. Most DL that have a bad habit of standing straight up usually don't beat that habit.

 

[patfanken]

I see who you would compare to Brown. But I'm just curious as to who is currently on our staff that you would compare to Givens and Branch.

Size, speed, etc Givens and Jones are very similar. Comparing Edelman and Branch is more of a stretch. Edelman is much more of a dynamic player after the catch, but not nearly the route runner Branch was, at least to date. But my point is that I'm not separating the receiver corps into WR/TE slots. Both Hernandez and Gronk are better "receivers" than anyone from those 2001-2004 teams, so if the next 3 options are only "just as good", the offense should thrive.

I did a write up on Margus Hunt yesterday that even got a like from a guy that I was arguing with who I'd wager has just as much, if not more, of a grasp on this current draft as anybody on this forum. He's athletic, no doubt. But so was Vernon Gholston. As I've said, there are more polished pass rushers in this draft that don't rely on their raw talent as much as Hunt has.

I'd appreciate seeing that write up. I saw a scouting report on Hunt in the NFP write up early in the thread. I thought it did a nice job pointing out the pros and cons on this kid. Very realistic imo. They have him as a late 2nd round prospect.

I don't think the Gholston comparison is fair. This kid has a great motor, its just an issue of experience. Its a judgement of whether you think full time professional coaching will fill in the missing pieces of his game or not. Since the Pats never get the chance to draft really elite athletic talents at the bottom of every round, why not take a shot at a kid at 59, that would be a top ten pick if he had more experience and wasn't so raw. Granted there's a chance he "is what he is" and will never improve beyond what you see now. But the way I see it, THIS is point in the draft that you take a shot. BTW- my biggest concern is his age (25)

 

[patsinthesnow]

Allen is the only WR in this class that could start game 1 for us and be a big part of the offense in his rookie year IMO. The rest would need a good amount of learning/polishing (Hopkins, Patterson, Hunter, Woods to an extent, Patton, etc)

He may last to #29 too. It's kindof funny, he's miles ahead of Patterson/Hunter in WR development/skill, yet since he isn't flashy or huge he is being put below both of them by many of the draft pundits.

 

[Ivan]

Actually several draft books I saw that are published before the Combine had Allen #1 at WR too.

Allen was the early No. 1 prospect at WR but has dropped due to his injury and his poor workouts during the scouting process. I think he is a really good prospect as a possession receiver but would prefer a more explosive WR in the first, I think they can get the possession WR later in the draft. Hunter and Hopkins have that explosiveness and could give the Patriots the downfield presence that would open the offense up for Amendola, Hernandez, and Gronkowski.

Overall I think this idea of going with Jags is foolhardy because they have the best QB in the game but want him to win it on his own rather than giving him the kinds of weapons the other great QB's are surrounded by. They have a young improving defense they have sunk alot of draft capital into the past few years and a really good running game , the only real needs they have for starters are at DE/OLB where they could use an upgrade over Ninkovich, and WR, where the only starter they have is Amendola in the slot. An argument could be made for safety but having invested a second in tavon Wilson and signing A. Wilson, as well as the lack of top safety talent in the first it really makes no sense for them to go there unless Vaccaro somehow drops to 29, and that is really unlikely.

Like others here I'm hoping they go for 2 WR and a pass rusher early, we'll see.

 

[manxman2601]

He may last to #29 too. It's kindof funny, he's miles ahead of Patterson/Hunter in WR development/skill, yet since he isn't flashy or huge he is being put below both of them by many of the draft pundits.

I'd suggest it's because he's slow rather than not flashy.

 

[Kontradiction]

Size, speed, etc Givens and Jones are very similar. Comparing Edelman and Branch is more of a stretch. Edelman is much more of a dynamic player after the catch, but not nearly the route runner Branch was, at least to date. But my point is that I'm not separating the receiver corps into WR/TE slots. Both Hernandez and Gronk are better "receivers" than anyone from those 2001-2004 teams, so if the next 3 options are only "just as good", the offense should thrive.

I think you're mixing up the issue here. The TE situation as compared to back then is better. The WR situation clearly isn't, and can easily be compared to the 2006 team.

I'd appreciate seeing that write up. I saw a scouting report on Hunt in the NFP write up early in the thread. I thought it did a nice job pointing out the pros and cons on this kid. Very realistic imo. They have him as a late 2nd round prospect.

I'd have to find it. It was in response to manxman in another thread. Basically, I detailed that I saw a bad habit from Hunt to stand straight up and try to overpower his blockers using his raw physical ability. It would allow the blocker a pretty easy opportunity to get his hands under Hunt's shoulder pads and essentially manhandle him.

I don't think the Gholston comparison is fair. This kid has a great motor, its just an issue of experience. Do you think full time professional coaching will fill in the missing pieces of his game. Since the Pats never get the chance to draft really elite athletic talents at the bottom of every round, why not take a shot at a kid at 59, that would be a top ten pick if he had more experience and wasn't so raw. Granted there's a chance he "is what he is" and will never improve beyond what you see now. But the way I see it, THIS is point in the draft that you take a shot. BTW- my biggest concern is his age (25)

I think the comparison is fair. You spoke of Hunt in regard to his elite athletic talents. I gave you one example that was highly touted coming out and ended up flaming out then busting. Granted, I could be wrong about Hunt. But, everything considered, I would stay away from him and try to target other pass rushers in the draft.

EDIT: Here's the link: http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...e-patriots-draft-new-england.html#post3432797

It contains my thoughts on Hunt (which is a more detailed regurgitation of what I posted here toward you and Ochmed) as well as a couple of the other pass rushers in the draft.

 

[patsinthesnow]

I'd suggest it's because he's slow rather than not flashy.

Slow with a dumb stopwatch.

 

[manxman2601]

I think you're mixing up the issue here. The TE situation as compared to back then is better. The WR situation clearly isn't, and can easily be compared to the 2006 team.



I'd have to find it. It was in response to manxman in another thread. Basically, I detailed that I saw a bad habit from Hunt to stand straight up and try to overpower his blockers using his raw physical ability. It would allow the blocker a pretty easy opportunity to get his hands under Hunt's shoulder pads and essentially manhandle him.



I think the comparison is fair. You spoke of Hunt in regard to his elite athletic talents. I gave you one example that was highly touted coming out and ended up flaming out then busting. Granted, I could be wrong about Hunt. But, everything considered, I would stay away from him and try to target other pass rushers in the draft.

EDIT: Here's the link: http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...e-patriots-draft-new-england.html#post3432797

It contains my thoughts on Hunt (which is a more detailed regurgitation of what I posted here toward you and Ochmed) as well as a couple of the other pass rushers in the draft.

I think the best argument against Margus Hunt is simply "Armond Armstead".

 

[manxman2601]

Slow with a dumb stopwatch.

And the fact that he's constantly chased down from behind

Don't get me wrong, there's a lot to like to his game but at least to me, he doesn't have the wow factor. I can certainly see what he offers in terms of a possession receiver though and won't be smashing anything if we draft him.


Which makes me think, there's very few WR's in the first three rounds that would really disappoint me, not even Justin Hunter who i've been down on because even he offers something positive.

Is this because of a great class, because we're so desperate at the position or a bit of both?

 

[patsinthesnow]

And the fact that he's constantly chased down from behind

Don't get me wrong, there's a lot to like to his game but at least to me, he doesn't have the wow factor. I can certainly see what he offers in terms of a possession receiver though and won't be smashing anything if we draft him.


Which makes me think, there's very few WR's in the first three rounds that would really disappoint me, not even Justin Hunter who i've been down on because even he offers something positive.

Is this because of a great class, because we're so desperate at the position or a bit of both?

I think it's both. There's no stud but plenty of #2 WRs. I agree with Hunter; if we drafted him it would mean BB felt fine with his weak build and suspect route running. I wouldn't be that upset, but still don't see us drafting him. There's no doubt he has a very high ceiling.

I can see why people aren't impressed/in awe with Allen. His highlight aren't much and he definitely isn't a "wow" WR. I just think alot of teams might end up passing on the next Reggie Wayne. (I don't really see the Boldin comparisons besides the 40)

 

[JackBauer]

I can see why people aren't impressed/in awe with Allen. His highlight aren't much and he definitely isn't a "wow" WR. I just think alot of teams might end up passing on the next Reggie Wayne. (I don't really see the Boldin comparisons besides the 40)

Not comparing Allen to Wayne but...why would teams pass up on one of the better and more consistent WRs in the past decade?

 

[chasa]

You should, perhaps, learn the difference between the entire offense of 2012, and the WR corps, as of now, of 2013.

cut out yards from branch, lloyd, and welker: 2410

Add last years yards as a baseline for jones/amendola/jenkins lets pretend that they don't get any better playing with brady as opposed to Fitzpatrick, Bradford, and ponder, all C level passers: 1558

We lost 900 yards of offense, Which means brady is still in line for a 3900 yard season. a 3900 yard season would have put brady just ahead of Joe, the super bowl winning QB, Flacco.

I think people need to steps back from the edge of the cliff. The patriot offense is fine with the pieces we currently have.