ESPNBoston mock draft results

[Ivan]

Allen is not likely to be there at 29. If he's there, I expect that we would draft him.

And yes, the wide receiver position is position of great need, and IMHO, "trainwreck" is an accurate assessment.

Yep. I do think Allen is going to be there when they pick, and i would be really curious to see who everyone would take if this draft was what took place and no trade was available at a decent price.

So, the question to you and anyone else who wants to answer is: Given that draft board who do YOU take at 29 (not who you think the Patriots will take)


I would take Bjorn Werner DE FSU. Much as I want a WR I think Werner's upside as a pass rusher to complement to jones is simply to much to pass on and to hard to find later in the draft.

 

[RobAllan]

I sincerely doubt he's going to fall to the bottom of round 1, but I've been watching lot of interviews/tape of this Sandcastle guy- pretty impressive...

 

[ATippett56]

Keenan Allen, WR, California, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com

04/17/2013 - California wide receiver Keenan Allen's drug test at the NFL Scouting Combine was red-flagged, according to an ESPN report. The report said Allen's test showed suspicious levels of water -- a sign that someone could be attempting to flush their system -- and was ordered to take another drug test. Results of that test are not known, and Allen's agent, J.T. Johnson, said his client did not fail a drug test.
Once considered a potential mid-first round pick, Allen's stock has been freefalling since he suffered a PCL injury to his left knee in October. That ended his junior season with the Bears and kept him from working out at the combine. However, he did go through team interviews, a thorough medical check and the drug testing.

He finally returned to the field to work out for NFL teams in Greensboro, N.C., on April 9, but turned in disappointing 40-yard dash times in the 4.70-4.76 range. Allen is still building up the muscles around his knee and he did look good in positional drills last week, but the reports of a flagged drug test will only continue to weigh down his stock nine days before the NFL Draft.

Allen is currently the No. 35-rated prospect overall and No. 4 receiver by NFLDraftScout.com. He might be the best all-around wide receiver prospect in this class, but the combination of a knee injury, a general lack of explosiveness and now potential off-field concerns will likely land him in the second round.

 

[TruthSeeker]

With our injury prone TE's, I think we definitely pick a TE. I'd love to get Fauria's nephew in the 7th, he's an interesting project with great size. If we get a 4th or 5th, instead of Fauria, I'd like to see us draft Chris Gragg the TE from Arkansas. He's a Hernandez type. Very talented H-back who could take some pressure off of Hernandez.

 

[ATippett56]

I would take Bjorn Werner DE FSU. Much as I want a WR I think Werner's upside as a pass rusher to complement to jones is simply to much to pass on and to hard to find later in the draft.

Bjoern Werner, DE, Florida State, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com

Bjoern Werner arm length - 33-1/4"

Cornellius (Tank) Carradine, DE, Florida State, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com

Cornellius Carradine arm length - 34-3/4"

04/21/2013 - Florida State's Carradine works out, runs 4.93...With an explosive burst off the snap and a high-revving motor, Florida State's Cornellius "Tank" Carradine quickly emerged as one of the most intriguing pass rushers in the country last season. On Saturday, he attempted to answer the one question that could keep him out of the first round of the NFL Draft -- his progress from surgery to repair a torn ACL in his right knee.

According to a high-ranking league source, Carradine was clocked at 4.93 seconds in the 40-yard dash, a more than respectable time considering that the 6-foot-4, 276-pound pass-rusher injured the knee just under five months ago but slower than the 4.75-4.85-second times first reported by Joe Reedy of the Cincinnati Enquirer.

Reedy reports there were representatives from 11 teams at the workout, which took place in Cincinnati, Carradine's hometown. The Atlanta Falcons, Cincinnati Bengals, Cleveland Browns, Denver Broncos, Detroit Lions, Indianapolis Colts, Kansas City Chiefs, Minnesota Vikings, New England Patriots, New Orleans Saints and San Francisco 49ers were represented.

 

[Ivan]

Bjoern Werner, DE, Florida State, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com

Bjoern Werner arm length - 33-1/4"

Cornellius (Tank) Carradine, DE, Florida State, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com

Cornellius Carradine arm length - 34-3/4"

I wouldn't have a problem with Carradine but I do think he's a pure 4-3 DE whereas Werner could play the hybrid DE/OLB that they value so much and get to the passer. If they do take Carradine I will be fine with it.

 

[Kontradiction]

the biggest train wreck being the wide receivers?

lol

Absolutely.

Even with a complete swap of numbers from last year where one player was part time, and the other was injured for most of the year, Brady would have still put up almost 4,000 yards and close close to 30 tds.

Almost 2,272 of those yards are gone. They've been replaced by an oft-injured WR who is in his first year of the system, a guy that Jabba the Hutt could probably outrun, and a guy that hasn't done much of anything since coming into the league.

The loss of welker and lloyd isn't going to be as drastic as the doom and gloom crowd seem to think.

I'm not a part of the doom and gloom crowd, nor am I an over the top homer. I am a realist, however, and the WR situation is a trainwreck.

We still have two of the top tight ends in the league(albeit hobbled at the moment) Amendola will have a 1k yard season, and i expect jones to put up at least 400 yards.

The TE's have nothing to do with the situation at WR. The two WR's you noted work the same level of the field as one another and the same level of the field as the TE's. The Patriots do not need another 400 yard back-up receiver. They need someone that is going to make an impact and work outside of the hashes.

The biggest train wreck is the defense.

I'm not going to deny that the defense still has needs. I've noted as much in this thread and elsewhere. It doesn't change the fact that WR is still the most pressing need.

last time i checked we still are only 1 deep at CB.

Not exactly. Dennard showed last year that he's more than a capable CB2 and shut down Smith in the AFCCG. Arrington is also fine in the "star" role. The team needs depth at that position and had numerous opportunities to acquire it through FA. They didn't, and that's a failure of their own.

and if the ravens game showed us anything its that one of our CB went down(talib) we **** the bed. Welker and Lloyd didnt exactly win teh game for us did they?

The offense put up well over 400 yards of total offense, but couldn't punch it in when they got close because one of our super duper TE's was injured. This should only strengthen the case that WR is a need.

Defense wins championships.

Defense is certainly a catalyst, but complete teams win championships. Particuarly on offense, a complete set of WR's that compliment one another and work different areas of the field win championships. Take a look back at the last few Super Bowl champions and then come back and tell me that you don't see that characteristic on full display.

 

[resdubwhite]

Why would we do that?

for a laugh!

 

[Deus Irae]

the biggest train wreck being the wide receivers?

Clearly, and no position is even a close second.

 

[Kontradiction]

Clearly, and no position is even a close second.

No, but I think that we can skip a round before taking a second WR (if that is the plan, which I hope it is). I would address defensive needs for that. I believe your board might be different then mine, but I have it as WR, DE, WR.

 

[Deus Irae]

No, but I think that we can skip a round before taking a second WR (if that is the plan, which I hope it is). I would address defensive needs for that. I believe your board might be different then mine, but I have it as WR, DE, WR.

Since I have drafting DE as a much lower priority then most (there aren't any big timers in this draft, and other positions have a much better need:availability matchup), my board will be different from pretty much everyone around here. WR and S are really the only two positions worth even thinking about in the first two rounds unless there's a stunning drop, IMO.

 

[PowerRunRevival]

Thoughts on this thread so far:
1. Love Keenan Allen, but would probably rather move back if we can get value.
2. We all expect/want Belichick to move back but all the draftniks are saying the strength of the draft is in the middle rounds. This means that we won't be the only ones looking to trade back (on his podcast today he said at least 5 teams from 15-30 would love to move back).
3. It seems like the demand for second round picks might drive the cost up meaning that if we traded back we wouldn't get as much as we would have in past years (if this is the case we should consider moving up or staying put)
4. What will shape the draft this year is where the QBs are drafted. If a lot of quarterbacks go early that will mean more players at positions of need will fall to us. If QBs go early the demand to get into the late first to get a qb will rise, which is good for us as well.

 

[Claremonster]

A trade back for 2 2nd round picks would allow the Patriots to select a WR, CB, and a DL. All positions of great need.

I think BB does trade down also, mainly for the lack of picks. However, BB usually does the opposite of what most fans think.

 

[Kontradiction]

Since I have drafting DE as a much lower priority then most (there aren't any big timers in this draft, and other positions have a much better need:availability matchup), my board will be different from pretty much everyone around here. WR and S are really the only two positions worth even thinking about in the first two rounds unless there's a stunning drop, IMO.

I wouldn't be opposed to going WR, S, WR but I would expect the team to make another move for DE outside of the draft (Abraham, maybe). Ninkovich is fine as a role player but he's not ideally what you want as a starter across from Jones. Swearinger should be available Day 2 as well.

 

[patfanken]

You sure do seem to have a lot of hostility toward those that have the gall to suggest that the biggest trainwreck on the current roster be addressed first. Further, you follow that by suggesting that the second biggest need be addressed with Margus Hunt?

I think "hostility" is an exaggeration. More a "frustration" with those who think we need to have Calvin Johnson and Des Bryant clones in order to be competitive. While I would love to have that, reality dictates its unlikely to happen.

Clearly we have vastly different viewpoints about the state of our receiver corps. "Trainwreck" is NOT how I see it. But that's OK, I'm not trying to change your mind. I, along with BB (by inference), don't believe in the value of WR's to the ultimate impact on the Pats won/loss record. And aside from the question of durability, our current WRs have just as much raw talent as Givens, Branch, and Brown had. The issue of staying on the field is a legitimate one, but no one can predict injuries.

Personally, I won't be irate if we pick a WR with one of the first 2 picks, but I just don't see it happening. As to Margus Hunt, I think at 59, he'd be worth the risk. His athletic ability is clearly elite. I think its worth the chance that he'll develop the technique and instincts that would allow his rare talent flower, but I understand that he could just as easily be a one trick pony, who will never develop past a guy who can do only one thing well. I just think at the end of the 2nd round the reward would be worth the risk.

I think the discussion of whether you need elite receivers to win, or can you do it with just competent ones and a great QB is a fascinating topic that will fill our time until the real games start. For example if I could only have 5 truly "elite" players on my roster, none of them would be a WR. Of the top of my head, QB, LT, DL, S, CB. would be my choices But that's me.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I think "hostility" is an exaggeration. More a "frustration" with those who think we need to have Calvin Johnson and Des Bryant clones in order to be competitive. While I would love to have that, reality dictates its unlikely to happen.

Clearly we have vastly different viewpoints about the state of our receiver corps. "Trainwreck" is NOT how I see it. But that's OK, I'm not trying to change your mind. I, along with BB (by inference, don't believe in the value of WR's to the ultimate impact on the Pats won/loss record. And aside from the question of durability, our current WRs have just as much raw talent as Givens, Branch, and Brown had. The issue of staying on the field is a legitimate one, but no one can predict injuries.

Personally, I won't be irate if we pick a WR with one of the first 2 picks, but I just don't see it happening. As to Margus Hunt, I think at 59, he'd be worth the risk. His athletic ability is clearly elite. I think its worth the chance that he'll develop the technique and instincts that would allow his rare talent flower, but I understand that he could just as easily be a one trick pony, who will never develop past a guy who can do only one thing well. I just think at the end of the 2nd round the reward would be worth the risk.

I think the discussion of whether you need elite receivers to win, or can you do it with just competent ones and a great QB is a fascinating topic that will fill our time until the real games start. For example if I could only have 5 truly "elite" players on my roster, none of them would be a WR. Of the top of my head, QB, LT, DL, S, CB. would be my choices But that's me.

How often do we see players develop playmaking instincts that they didn't have in college? It's rare enough that I wouldn't even take a flyer on the possibility before maybe the third round. Especially in a draft like this, where a second round pick should be a guy who you should project as someone who could be starting for you in the near future.

 

[patfanken]

People also said BB wouldn't trade up, BB wouldn't take a ILB high, he wouldn't take a Guard in the 1st round. Nothing BB does would surprise me.

I never said those things. BB had a prior history of trading up in the first round (Daniel Graham, Ty Warren. plus a host of examples in the 2nd round and later, like Gronk IIRC) He took an ILB with the highest pick he had in since Seymour (Mayo), and Mankins was a LT in college and was the last pick in the first round that year..

So, while you are correct in saying "nothing BB does should surprise us", all those example you cited had prior examples. However picking a WR in the first round would truly surprise me, so by definition it probably is going to happen.

 

[reflexblue]

I think "hostility" is an exaggeration. More a "frustration" with those who think we need to have Calvin Johnson and Des Bryant clones in order to be competitive. While I would love to have that, reality dictates its unlikely to happen.

Clearly we have vastly different viewpoints about the state of our receiver corps. "Trainwreck" is NOT how I see it. But that's OK, I'm not trying to change your mind. I, along with BB (by inference, don't believe in the value of WR's to the ultimate impact on the Pats won/loss record. And aside from the question of durability, our current WRs have just as much raw talent as Givens, Branch, and Brown had. The issue of staying on the field is a legitimate one, but no one can predict injuries.

Personally, I won't be irate if we pick a WR with one of the first 2 picks, but I just don't see it happening. As to Margus Hunt, I think at 59, he'd be worth the risk. His athletic ability is clearly elite. I think its worth the chance that he'll develop the technique and instincts that would allow his rare talent flower, but I understand that he could just as easily be a one trick pony, who will never develop past a guy who can do only one thing well. I just think at the end of the 2nd round the reward would be worth the risk.

I think the discussion of whether you need elite receivers to win, or can you do it with just competent ones and a great QB is a fascinating topic that will fill our time until the real games start. For example if I could only have 5 truly "elite" players on my roster, none of them would be a WR. Of the top of my head, QB, LT, DL, S, CB. would be my choices But that's me.

:yeahthat: Many people are enamoured with shiny objects like WR's when its been proven (patriots with Givens Branch and Brown) that all you need are good competent WR's, a great QB and a very good defense to win. WR's are to easily taken out of the game.

 

[Kontradiction]

I think "hostility" is an exaggeration. More a "frustration" with those who think we need to have Calvin Johnson and Des Bryant clones in order to be competitive. While I would love to have that, reality dictates its unlikely to happen.

Very few, if any, people are saying that, Ken. Most of us just want an NFL caliber corps of WR and, aside from Amendola and maybe Edelman (as a back-up), we don't have one. The team has missed out on all the good options that were in FA so, aside from Lloyd, the only other option is through the draft.

Clearly we have vastly different viewpoints about the state of our receiver corps. "Trainwreck" is NOT how I see it. But that's OK, I'm not trying to change your mind.

That's fine.

I, along with BB (by inference, don't believe in the value of WR's to the ultimate impact on the Pats won/loss record. And aside from the question of durability, our current WRs have just as much raw talent as Givens, Branch, and Brown had. The issue of staying on the field is a legitimate one, but no one can predict injuries.

I see who you would compare to Brown. But I'm just curious as to who is currently on our staff that you would compare to Givens and Branch.

As to Margus Hunt, I think at 59, he'd be worth the risk. His athletic ability is clearly elite. I think its worth the chance that he'll develop the technique and instincts that would allow his rare talent flower, but I understand that he could just as easily be a one trick pony, who will never develop past a guy who can do only one thing well. I just think at the end of the 2nd round the reward would be worth the risk.

I did a write up on Margus Hunt yesterday that even got a like from a guy that I was arguing with who I'd wager has just as much, if not more, of a grasp on this current draft as anybody on this forum. He's athletic, no doubt. But so was Vernon Gholston. As I've said, there are more polished pass rushers in this draft that don't rely on their raw talent as much as Hunt has.

 

[State]

I would love to hear the Patriots brain thrust on Justin Hunter, the tall blazing WR from Tennessee. Do they see him as the home run threat that defenses will have to keep a safety back to defend, opening up the middle?

Besides his 6'4" frame and elite speed and acceleration, his jumping ability is almost literally Olympian. That way he can go up and grab the ball over defender's heads--even if they can stay with him stride for stride.

I have a feeling he's higher on the Pats draft board than we would expect. He competed for a spot on the Olympics for the long jump: Mike Strange: Olympic dream over, but Justin Hunter content with football » GoVolsXtra