Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

[Observer]

Obviously my football knowledge isn't on par with yours.. but where the hell do you see very clear, unpleasantly vindictive behavior from BB??

1. Benching welker and hurting the team because he wasn't a good little foot soldier ? There was no reason to let off-field action affect on-field plays. It could have been handled much better.

 

[Patriots Nation NY]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

1. Benching welker and hurting the team because he wasn't a good little foot soldier ? There was no reason to let off-field action affect on-field plays. It could have been handled much better.

how do you know this? is that what happened? are you sure that is what happened? :snob:

 

[Bassman]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

Bill can't be vindictive, after all he does what best for the team...LOL

 

[Bassman]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

Right now Waters is sitting on his couch in Texas showing Bill his middle finger.

 

[BSR]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

And fat load of good that's done him.

Teams don't honor contracts every day. I guess they have no pride. In this case they were looking to renegotiate the players contract. And at least part of that renegotiation included making $500K of his money that would have been guaranteed week 1 suddenly not guaranteed at all. Reportedly they offered him the opportunity to earn more than that back if he didn't get miss games, but the flip side of offers like that are if you do get injured your're screwed. Waters isn't a guy with a history of injury concerns. He's missed 3 games in the last decade. Not to mention here at the moment pro bowlers can be replaced by effort jags through no fault of there own. So there is that, too, that can cost you any opportunity to recoup your lost money.

Funny how you believe every word regarding the report of them asking him to take a pay cut but think the SMY report of them offering substantially more is spin. It conveniently fits your preconceived notions. Clearly you still have a problem with it.

Frankly, I will never understand the need of fans/media to speculate and infer on situations that they next to nothing about. The fact that neither party is talking about it means that we will likely never learn what is truly going on. The only things we do know are that he is not here now and there is a chance that he returns at some point this season.

 

[Rob0729]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

Funny how you believe every word regarding the report of them asking him to take a pay cut but think the SMY report of them offering substantially more is spin. It conveniently fits your preconceived notions. Clearly you still have a problem with it.

Frankly, I will never understand the need of fans/media to speculate and infer on situations that they next to nothing about. The fact that neither party is talking about it means that we will likely never learn what is truly going on. The only things we do know are that he is not here now and there is a chance that he returns at some point this season.

There is just no logic to the theory that the Pats were trying to screw with Waters on his contract. All the evidence points to Waters being rewarded on the back end to redo his deal.

Besides, what leverage did the Pats have to screw him like this? Did they threaten him that either he accepts the restructure where he has to earn his money back or they were going to cut him so he could sign with the Texans and make more money while being really close to home which he wants? It makes absolutely no sense.

 

[PP2]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

Right now Waters is sitting on his couch in Texas showing Bill his middle finger.

Everything I have seen from Brian Waters suggests he is a consummate professional. He was always seen with the playbook in hand and on the field he committed just about zero errors.

With that in mind, I think he has too much self-respect to engage in the behavior you think he is exhibiting, or is doing anything else than electing to stay home with his family.

 

[Jimke]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

The Patriots retain his rights for 2013 unless he shows up by week 10. That said it's unlikely this is in play with a player his age.

I don't think we should hold our breath waiting for him to show up
by week 10.

 

[The Boston Patriot]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

And fat load of good that's done him.

Teams don't honor contracts every day. I guess they have no pride. In this case they were looking to renegotiate the players contract. And at least part of that renegotiation included making $500K of his money that would have been guaranteed week 1 suddenly not guaranteed at all. Reportedly they offered him the opportunity to earn more than that back if he didn't get miss games, but the flip side of offers like that are if you do get injured your're screwed. Waters isn't a guy with a history of injury concerns. He's missed 3 games in the last decade. Not to mention here at the moment pro bowlers can be replaced by effort jags through no fault of there own. So there is that, too, that can cost you any opportunity to recoup your lost money.

That simply said, is the biggest damn myth in NFL fandom. To prove my point how long do you think it would take 1)the NFLPA or 2)a player's lawyer, to bring down the hammer on a team contract that was reneged upon? To state it simply, the player and his agent sign a contract with full knowledge of the implications within. Period. You don't like the terms, don't sign the contract. Simple. You make it sound like the owner's are predators unfairly forcing the players and agents to sign contracts they don't want to sign. You opinion is just flat wrong.

 

[DaBruinz]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

I've often noted that I don't think the Patriots are cheap, and I don't. I do think that they play the hard-ass needlessly, all too often, though, and there's clearly a vindictiveness in BB that can be very unpleasant at times.

Except that BB isn't the one doing the contracts, as he has said many times. That is Caserio and Reese. And it was Pioli before them.

So, I hate to say this, but there really is nothing to support this idea of yours that there is a vindictiveness in BB.

 

[Coog548]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

Well I guess we can all move on. It is sad that he turned down the pay raise. I guess he just did not want to be here or he wanted the raise at the end of last year and felt burnt by not getting it.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

There is just no logic to the theory that the Pats were trying to screw with Waters on his contract. All the evidence points to Waters being rewarded on the back end to redo his deal.

Besides, what leverage did the Pats have to screw him like this? Did they threaten him that either he accepts the restructure where he has to earn his money back or they were going to cut him so he could sign with the Texans and make more money while being really close to home which he wants? It makes absolutely no sense.

Similar leverage they used and perhaps are still employing in Welker's case. If they limit Waters use or don't start him he never sees any incentives. They did bring in Gallery on a $1.8M contract with $400K in signing bonus up front and they brought Koppen back on a 2 year deal with $350K in signing bonus up front which immediately resulted in freeing up Connolly to play guard if not center. Folks can cover their eyes and stick their fingers in their ears all they want but it's not like they haven't done some head scratching stuff this offseason geared towards getting younger and cheaper...and where they believe they can turning the vet into the backup or cutting him.

Bedard talked about a trust issue earlier on, and those usually cut both ways.

 

[Danger Zone]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

1. Benching welker and hurting the team because he wasn't a good little foot soldier ? There was no reason to let off-field action affect on-field plays. It could have been handled much better.

Too bad the Penn and Teller show Bull**** was cancelled. They could have done an episode on the stupidity of mind-reading.. and another show on how its even stupider to read someone's mind through a cracked tv screen.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

$2.25 million is only $850k more than $1.4 million. I don't think anyone would say that $850k is a substantial amount of money. I seriously doubt that SMY and Tom Curran would report that the Pats offered a lot more than the $1.4 million if it was only $850k.

My guess is that they were offering him at least $3-4 million to play this season, probably closer to $4 million. If the Pats were willing to pay Shaun Ellis $4 million to play when he was clearly on the decline and wasn't going to be more than a role player, I would think that would be the mark where they would put Waters.

If the Pats were giving him concessions to miss training camp and preseason along with a pay bump, you think they are out of line to ask him to restructure his contract to protect themselves if he leaves in the season. And let's not forget that this was a restructure that Greg Bedard reported that Waters agreed to.

From all the reports except for Jeff Howes', the Pats bent over backwards to accommodate Waters and his family situation. Yet, people are still twisting this into the Pats are screwing him.

If it was such a crappy deal that they were offering, Waters could have refused to agree to it and just show up and force the Pats to pay him the money he is owed on his original deal, cut him, or trade him. If Waters wants to play closer to home and the Pats don't want to pay him his $1.4 million as a base, this would have been his best powerplay to get the Pats to cut him and him to sign with the Texans or Cowboys probably for more money.

$100K was his in house off season workout bonus which like many before him he didn't care to earn. Bedard reported that he seemed to be OK with the restructure when first approached. Maybe they should have had it drawn up and signed. I know this team often has a different view of what was agreed upon or what players were seemingly OK with than it turns out they did in reality. Mankins and Brady both immediately come to mind. In the end neither signed until they got what they really were OK with.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

Some people simply have pride

If a team finds itself desperate and finally comes up with enough money which might have satisfied him 2 months ago, it's just another way of trying to kiss his ass because Cannon,McDonald and Thomas suck and are raw prospects as we all can clearly see.

If this is true,I don't blame him for saying no......they had thier chance to make an offer that was impossible to refuse when summer was still here.

Like I said,Waters seems prideful and stubborn and wants time with his family

Let him go peacefully.....

He can file his retirement papers any time he wants. He hasn't. He's the one dragging this out.

 

[DaBruinz]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

Patriots offered Brian Waters $4 million to return this season - Extra Points - Boston.com

The Patriots offered offensive lineman Brian Waters $4 million during training camp to play this season.

So, the Pats offered him a $2.6 million raise. Now, granted, the devil is in the details. That being said, if the Patriots offer was on a per game basis, there is nothing said that Waters couldn't have countered their offer with one of his own.

Another interesting line is this:

Earlier in the year, Waters and the Patriots agreed to a modified contract structure for this year that was to drop his base salary but offer per-game bonuses that would have put him at least to - and likely above - the $1.4 million base he originally signed for. The expectation was he would show up late in training camp. Waters has been durable in his career, so he likely would have earned all of the money, but New England was protected in case the 35-year old offensive lineman was injured. And a renegotiation such as that can't happen without the player agreeing to it.

Sounds to me like Waters was having buyer's remorse after agreeing to a restructured deal.

With this information, I'm not sure how anyone can't put this on Waters..

 

[Sciz]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

Alright, what's the new excuse, naysayers?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

He never officially agreed to anything. And since they were willing to offer to less than double (his contract was for $2.25M including LTBE incentives not just $1.4M in base salary) that really begs the question why did they approach him about lowering his salary in the spring? That was poking a stick into something needlessly and then at the 5 months later at the 11th hour deciding to go all in. Perhaps Waters is vindictive, he was said to be furious after KC cut him. He came here to rehab what he felt was a HOF image they tarnished. Did that. And then these guys started asking for concessions. Maybe they should have just offered him a raise to $4M back in March. Could have saved themselves another $750K in front money to Gallery and Koppen, so really they'd have only be adding another million to the cap... And with Connolly's deal averaging $3.25M per $4M was never a stretch for Waters.

Folks can blame Waters all they want. This just proves that the brain trust made a mistake and they really need/wanted Waters back and now it isn't gonna happen and we can live with the consequences.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

BTW, she is correct that a restructure like that can't happen without the player agreeing to it. And if he had in writing it would have appeared on the NFLPA website. I assume it didn't as neither Jason nor anyone else who tracks that site closely ever reported that his base pay had been altered. And again, he was already scheduled to make $2.25M with LTBE incentives so the opportunity to regain $500K of his base pay in the same fashion would have either upped his incentives to $1.25M or perhaps it eliminated or altered those pre existing ones.

 

[Patriots Nation NY]

re: Brian Waters turned down "significant" pay raise

^^^ your a funny dude ... :bricks: