Do you wish the Patriots challenged Goodell (like the Saints are doing)?

[MoLewisrocks]

I don't dispute that the Pats violated a rule and should have been punished. What I will never agrre to is that the punishment was fair and unbiased either in view of prior penalties meted to the 49ers and Broncos and subsequently to the Jets for tripping. Too bad Kraft felt that he was forced to support the biased POS for the good of the League rather than stand up for his team. I am still waiting for Goodell to finish his promised investigation of how the tapes were leaked during his possession. LOL

What happened 15 years ago is irrelevant. And for that matter so are unrelated instances like the tripping (where the guy responsible lost his job) or even taping in Denver (again where the guy responsible -Scar's idiot kid acting on his own initiative - lost his). You should take a page out of Bill's book.

"There's a lot of things that have happened in the past," Belichick said. "Really, the past is in the past."

We were punished as we were in large part to set an example. Same deal in NO to further underscore that example...

And as that link Joker chose to provide later stated, the JETS were taping something different and no one complained to the league about it. That is why if there is anyone I will forever hold culpable for what transpired here it is Mangini and Tannenbaum. They engineered the whole unfortunate incident, although Bill could have certainly avoided it considering how little significance he placed in the whole taping process.

 

[lurker1965]

Fine post Mo.

On that highlighted portion: truth is that there is a segment of the ENTIRE fanbase, not just the Patsfans, who refuse to move on.

But then 'move-on' from what?

I think all have moved-on from the camera-gate incident.

It is a question of how you label the incident that is causing this soreness even after the passage of time. If you consider breaking the rule as cheating, the Pats are cheats. If no, you are either a Pats fan or knowlegable NFL fan. (And for the record, I cringe when many in this fanbase happily use the word 'spy', which unconciously puts us in a negative light. )

Fall out of this camera-gate scandal is that outside of NE, a good % of the fans will always think that the Patriots cheated. They have also moved on, but will never change their conclusion that the Pats cheated.

I think I have also 'moved on' by ignoring such taunts when I am in the bars here in the NY/NJ area.

But heck, I wish Mr. Kraft and BB at least protested instead of silently accepting such a costly fine that clearly convicted them in the eyes of the public.

My canned response to idiots that claim filming from a better than legal vantage point is cheating:

So this must be superdy duper hyper cheating, huh?

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm amazed at the number of folks who with the benefit of hindsight still lack all perspective where all these issues are concerned. Although it shouldn't surprise me since to this day many of Vick's supporters still play the dogs vs. manslaughter card although he himself move past that long ago. Goodell makes examples of guys or organization who walk right into it in the hopes of once and for all putting a stop to a culture that thinks it's above the game because historically it's gotten off easy. He is determined to get out in front of potential issues that he doesn't want the courts or congress or even the media poking sticks into incessantly to the detriment of the image of the NFL.

Belichick made a rare mistake. Not that he was doing with his tapes what others were said to be attempting to let alone what idiots in the media or jealous fanbases continue to elude to. In fact he admitted that what he did was just for convenience and really a low priority task. But he persisted because he felt he could justify it if need be by playing semantic games (smartest guy in the room syndrome) before he got caught in a very public way that left Goodell little choice but to over react in fear that it could have be worse not to mention to do otherwise would have undermined his fledgling authority. People forget how the media and some of Bill's legion of critics including frustrated peers were lobbying for a suspension.

Goodell has his hands full with the litigious NFLPA and it's members. That was his first and last warning shot across the bow of FO's and coaches. Quit screwing around because you believe you can get away with it. Next one who defies me... And lo and behold just 2 years later someone else took the bait. And to top it off, they lied after receiving fair warning and just kept doing it for 2 more seasons. Pay for performance may have been part of the old boy culture of the NFL. But it's been against the rules since the salary cap was adopted 2 decades ago. And every season teams and players get a reminder from the league that it is. It's almost impossible to police when player run because players won't rat each other out. Then he catches one team violating the rules whose own coaching staff is participating and using terms like bounty and kill shots and cart offs at a time when the league is being sued by hundreds of former players who claim their safety was jeopardized by the league... and they are lucky he opted to limit the penalties to those he did.

It's kind of pathetic that a numbskull like Vick gets it while so many other supposedly bright folks simply can't. Some in NO are atttempting the semantic defense. Bill and Robert were smart enough to know better than to waste time, energy and effort on it. They opted to man up and be accountable and take their lumps, learn from their mistake and just move on. Why anyone would wish they had behaved like a bunch of alternately defiant and whining self absorbed jerks like the Saints is beyond me. There is nothing to be gained in that effort beyond generating a small fortune in billable hours for the lawyers. And we all know how Robert feels about lawyers...

The Patriots make mistakes but they learn from them and they are too smart to waste their time, energy and effort fighting a losing battle when the right thing to do anyway is simply man up, be accountable, take your lumps and move on.

It's been gone over time and again, so I'll save everyone the time of a long, detailed breakdown and just note that what you dismiss as "semantics" is actually the sort of thing that is decisive in most areas of law and business.

 

[lurker1965]

...
Why would BB have been suspended or expelled from the league for disallowed video camera placement? The mind boggles.

Because Goodell puts his finger in the air and goes according to the wind (in this case E!SPN).

 

[flasox27]

What happened 15 years ago is irrelevant. And for that matter so are unrelated instances like the tripping (where the guy responsible lost his job) or even taping in Denver (again where the guy responsible -Scar's idiot kid acting on his own initiative - lost his). You should take a page out of Bill's book.



We were punished as we were in large part to set an example. Same deal in NO to further underscore that example...

So you believe that the manipulations of the salary cap by the 49ers and Bronco's which cost a third round draft pick are less important than filming from an unacceptable location. I also do not share your opinion that the patsy on the Jets that orchestrated the tripping incident did without the knowledge of Ryan. Do you really believe that if it was done by a Pats player Belichick would not be blamed.
I do agree that we were unfairly punished to set an example by an incompetent and biased POS in over his head and pressured by the NYC media. I can also understand why Kraft did not object to the punishment since he had to live with his mistake in supporting him in the first place.

 

[Jackson 2]

After reading 15 pages of this, I'll leave it with this thought: When you accept the draconian types of penalties the Patriots and BB received without protest for a transgression you think is relatively minor, you leave yourself open to the charge that it was not minor and that you deserved the penalties you were given. The fans have been left "holding the bag" defending their team against the derision from other teams' fans and the organization has gone blithely on relatively oblivious to the crap, compared to the fans.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

After reading 15 pages of this, I'll leave it with this thought: When you accept the draconian types of penalties the Patriots and BB received without protest for a transgression you think is relatively minor, you leave yourself open to the charge that it was not minor and that you deserved the penalties you were given. The fans have been left "holding the bag" defending their team against the derision from other teams' fans and the organization has gone blithely on relatively oblivious to the crap, compared to the fans.

That about sums it up. Although I don't believe the fans left holding the bag would be any happier had the organization fought the penalty and lost, as the Saints players who are fighting it now eventually will. The only ones who ever win in those situations are the lawyers who all get paid.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

So you believe that the manipulations of the salary cap by the 49ers and Bronco's which cost a third round draft pick are less important than filming from an unacceptable location. I also do not share your opinion that the patsy on the Jets that orchestrated the tripping incident did without the knowledge of Ryan. Do you really believe that if it was done by a Pats player Belichick would not be blamed.
I do agree that we were unfairly punished to set an example by an incompetent and biased POS in over his head and pressured by the NYC media. I can also understand why Kraft did not object to the punishment since he had to live with his mistake in supporting him in the first place.

I never said that. I think what they did deserved far more severe punishment. But Tagliabue was a goes along to get along kind of commissioner. Goodell isn't because that wasn't working on multiple fronts the way the owners hoped it would by the time he left after negotiating a CBA they would opt out of in less than 24 months... They wanted someone to police the players and police their own rogue partners, something they couldn't count on each other to do independently, and someone prepared to go to the mat to get them a deal that worked for the league long term.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

I don't dispute that the Pats violated a rule and should have been punished. What I will never agree to is that the punishment was fair and unbiased either in view of prior penalties meted to the 49ers and Broncos and subsequently to the Jets for tripping. Too bad Kraft felt that he was forced to support the biased POS for the good of the League rather than stand up for his team. I am still waiting for Goodell to finish his promised investigation of how the tapes were leaked during his possession. LOL I also find it amusing how the remaining tapes were destroyed after consultation with Rooney. Since the Pats were already convicted by the POS, why did they need to be destroyed if not for disclosing the how common the practice was and that Goodell would be forced to punish other teams especially the Jets.

Right, destroying the tapes created the assumption that the Pats were getting off easy in the eyes of many. The worst the tapes would have shown were that the Pats were taping signals..... something they were already punished for. So not only did he massively overreact with the punishment, he made the situation look worse than it was...and that he was covering up. Now he may have been covering up for other teams but there was nothing on those tapes that could have made the Pats look worse.

He created the ****storm with his massive overreaction and the severity of the punishment. He fueled the media's frenzy. If he dismissed it like he does with other teams transgressions it would have quickly gone away. Instead he chose to make it a dog and pony so he could make a name for himself.

The situation could not have been handled worse - it gave the league tons of undo negative attention and smeared the reputation of league's most successful franchise at the time while making it all look like a coverup. Over what? Placement of a camera.

 

[flasox27]

The fact remains that Goodell has been unfair and biased in meting punishment with the Jets being trated differently than the Pats and Saints.
If the Jets were actually punished with the loss of draft choices after their many violations. Goodell could have shown he wasn't in the tank for the Jets to the detriment of their greatest rival .

 

[MoLewisrocks]

The fact remains that Goodell has been unfair and biased in meting punishment with the Jets being trated differently than the Pats and Saints.
If the Jets were actually punished with the loss of draft choices you would actually have a case.

Except the JETS staff denied any knowledge of the situation and no one ever came forward and proved they did while Bill owned what happened here from the get go.

Goodell did a year as a PR intern with the JETS. After having done a year as an intern at the league offices. He then chose to return to the league offices. He never was a JETS fan. No matter how often his critics here persist he must be. He grew up a Redskins fan and he really wasn't very nice to them this year...docking them tens of millions in cap space for doing something that wasn't even against any rule in existence at the time. Just against the best interest of the league.

 

[Joker]

Except the JETS staff denied any knowledge of the situation and no one ever came forward and proved they did while Bill owned what happened here from the get go.

ex post facto Spygate...who wouldn't deny after seeing how New England was brutalized for something far less important?

He never was a JETS fan. No matter how often his critics here persist he must be.

Hard copy security reports involving Senator Goodell's box at the Meadowlands concerning multiple incidents spanning two years,a box held for Jets games, would seem to cast doubt on your declaration of certainty...as would declaring him to be a Redskin fan AFTER numerous published pieces that reported he would often attend Redskin games while visiting his father every weekend in Washington, all the while a three sport star(including football) at a prep school 20 minutes north of NYC. All that shows is a rabid football fan, hardly out of line for a future commissioner of the NFL.Add to this that it only came out in the press, leaked by NFL offices, that he was a Redskin fan in his youth AFTER he came under fire for his Spygate decision and subsequent slap on the wrist Jet decisions.Why so suddenly willing to make national news that you were a Redskins fan when you were in high school?

I've seen you try to whitewash ,revise and bury any evidence contrary to your own agenda. There is no doubt YOU are a current reincarnation of John Mitchell, A.G. of the Nixon administration...a near carbon copy right down to the snotty "players are stupid and any judge they get to hear the case is stupid and probably won't be able to find the courtroom anyway and if he does the jury will all be morons" rejoinder you printed up last week. Some people don't see it that way. Some people don't subscribe to the school of thought that rising to the level of a federal court judge automatically brands that person as stupid and unable to even find the courtroom.Some people see a definite issue here and have faith that a federal court venue can sort it all out. You obviously do not.

 

[flasox27]

Except the JETS staff denied any knowledge of the situation and no one ever came forward and proved they did while Bill owned what happened here from the get go.

Goodell did a year as a PR intern with the JETS. After having done a year as an intern at the league offices. He then chose to return to the league offices. He never was a JETS fan. No matter how often his critics here persist he must be. He grew up a Redskins fan and he really wasn't very nice to them this year...docking them tens of millions in cap space for doing something that wasn't even against any rule in existence at the time. Just against the best interest of the league.

I guess you believe Ryan is just a figurehead as head coach of the Jets and his subordinates have free reign to do whatever they feel like on the field. In that case I have some land in the Everglades you might be interested in.
I never said he was a Jets fan just an employee of the team which is far more important. So despite your red herring reference to his being a Skin's fan , the fact remains that his actions speak of favoritism towards his former employers.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Except the JETS staff denied any knowledge of the situation and no one ever came forward and proved they did while Bill owned what happened here from the get go.

ex post facto Spygate...who wouldn't deny after seeing how New England was brutalized for something far less important?

He never was a JETS fan. No matter how often his critics here persist he must be.

Hard copy security reports involving Senator Goodell's box at the Meadowlands concerning multiple incidents spanning two years,a box held for Jets games, would seem to cast doubt on your declaration of certainty...as would declaring him to be a Redskin fan AFTER numerous published pieces that reported he would often attend Redskin games while visiting his father every weekend in Washington, all the while a three sport star(including football) at a prep school 20 minutes north of NYC. All that shows is a rabid football fan, hardly out of line for a future commissioner of the NFL.Add to this that it only came out in the press, leaked by NFL offices, that he was a Redskin fan in his youth AFTER he came under fire for his Spygate decision and subsequent slap on the wrist Jet decisions.Why so suddenly willing to make national news that you were a Redskins fan when you were in high school?

I've seen you try to whitewash ,revise and bury any evidence contrary to your own agenda. There is no doubt YOU are a current reincarnation of John Mitchell, A.G. of the Nixon administration...a near carbon copy right down to the snotty "players are stupid and any judge they get to hear the case is stupid and probably won't be able to find the courtroom anyway and if he does the jury will all be morons" rejoinder you printed up last week. Some people don't see it that way. Some people don't subscribe to the school of thought that rising to the level of a federal court judge automatically brands that person as stupid and unable to even find the courtroom.Some people see a definite issue here and have faith that a federal court venue can sort it all out. You obviously do not.

Did those reports come wrapped in tin foil? Your timeline is a little off. Goodell's father would have likely had access to a complimentary box when he was appointed to the US Senate for two years to fill out the term of a deceased senator who likely previously had access to the same box. Roger was 11 or 12 at the time. However, prior to that his father was a congressman for a decade beginning the year Roger was born. I doubt he was in prep school in NY that early and the family actually lived in DC much of the year as most congressional families do. By the time Roger was in prep school his father was in private law practice back in NY.

“I actually grew up in this area,” Goodell said at one point. “I grew up in Washington right down in the city, and spent the first eleven years of my life here. So I know about Redskins passion.”

The Redskins Blog | Tuesday, September 1: Former Skins Fan Roger Goodell On Redskins Nation

 

[SVN]

I mainly blame the media esp ESPN for making a huge deal of out it and its panel of analysts somehow talking BS how this was huge including people like steve young. BTW , the tapes matt walsh had were shown to the media the yr after and it was clear it was all nonsense. It even had shots of charger cheerleaders...

 

[Joker]

heh...you PROVE my point...when do you actively become a fan and go to games and wear team jerseys? when you are 0-11 years old???

By the time Roger was in prep school his father was in private law practice back in NY.

and rooting for the Redskins!!!!....makes perfect sense...big time high school jock in NY...captain of the football team.. a diehard Redskins fan!!! Right!! Why didn't I see it before? That quote actually says ZERO about him being a Redskins fan...what it does say is he, as an 11 year old CHILD, was exposed to the rabid nature of the Redskin football fanbase. Myself,if I wanted to get in on the ground floor in the NFL I would start off as a PATRIOT INTERN. Joe Hogg, if HE wanted to start off as an NFL intern, would start with the REDSKINS. Not Roger the Pure, he who is above all reproach or suspicion (so speaketh the Oracle,MLR)...nah...Roger starts with the Jets because...oh well...just because...it was a coin flip...heads the Jets , tails the Giants...and if it ends up on its edge, the REDSKINS!!!...I get it now.

You really should stop the daily avalanche of pilfered contract numbers and details you harvest from internet football sites that you present as your own and instead devote your time and energy to spinning fairy tales like "Little Billy Takes His Medicine For Using Daddy's Camera" and "The Federal Judge In His Robes Is A Moron And So Is The Jury And Anybody Else Who Questions The Might And Authority Of The Greatest Leader In American History...My Hero, Roger Goodell"...who knows, maybe Pete "Roselle" will turn over in his grave and reveal he's buried in a Raider jersey.

what isn't a fairy tale is the senator he replaced...how did you put it?..oh yeah, right..fill out the term of a deceased senator who likely previously had access to the same box...so Bobby Kennedy likely had the same box....big NY fans those Kennedys, eh??...I have diligently attempted to find ANY reference to Roger Goodell living and being educated in Washington ,D.C. As far as the senators and U.S. reps from my state,they ALL have their families living HERE in R.I. where their children go to school. I find tons of information relating to Roger Goodell and his schooling...it always comes up Bronxville...that's Bronxville, NEW YORK...maybe THEY all have tin foil hats on in Bronxville too...

 

[lurker1965]

I mainly blame the media esp ESPN for making a huge deal of out it and its panel of analysts somehow talking BS how this was huge including people like steve young. BTW , the tapes matt walsh had were shown to the media the yr after and it was clear it was all nonsense. It even had shots of charger cheerleaders...

Exactly. And to make matters worse those fools had inadvertent power. I blame Goodell for having no balls. I would say he was lead around like a bull with a ring in it's nose but an ox is more apt. (Oxen are castrated bulls.)

 

[lurker1965]

Hey Mo,

You know you are arguing with the Joker, right?

Unless you are the Batman that is usually not going to end well.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Hey Mo,

You know you are arguing with the Joker, right?

Unless you are the Batman that is usually not going to end well.

Thanks for ruining the new Batman movie for me

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Hey Mo,

You know you are arguing with the Joker, right?

Unless you are the Batman that is usually not going to end well.

A joker maybe, and well doesn't even enter into the equation where engaging conspiracy theorists is concerned. I'd be naive to think even ending does...and I'm not in the least. Stubborn is another matter. And it's a pet peeve of mine when folks spew crap incessantly as if fact. Same way spygate came to be the perceived black eye it remains in the idiotic opinion of fans of other teams who read spewed crap once about walk throughs and cheating and became wedded to it as truth.