The best thing for this team moving forward? No more BOB

[RhodyPatriot]

If only BOB had caught that pass from Brady....

If only it was BOB throwing that pass. Could not have done much worse with it....

Oh well just remember this name. Billy Cundiff.

 

[robbomango]

Agree with the complaint but not sure it all belongs in the lap of the OC. Much of the playcalling belongs in the lap of Tom Brady. Brady has much more say over this offense than many fans give him credit for. As long as Tommy's ego goes unchecked with BB this problem will continue. And it is a problem as we see every January when defenses are allowed to play real football and that soft arena ball the Patriots O excels at isn't anywhere near as effective.

TB isn't responsible for the personnel substitutions that provide any given play. He didn't send BJGE to the bench after a couple failed plays that's BOB's call. How is an empty backfield his doing? geezus.

All i can do is lol at the idea of BB letting ego's run rampid. igsfly:igsfly:igsfly:

 

[dhamz]

Two years ago he coordinated a very effective offense despite having to change the offense during the season when Randy Moss was traded out and Deion Branch came in.

This past season he coordinated a very effective offnese despite not having a single player who was a threat to make a play outside. You think it is easy to be that effective on offense when the defense doesn't care about 20% of the field? He did it by featuring tight ends in a way never done before in the NFL.

If that isn't doing a good job as OC, a good job just can't be done in the eyes of some.

The main criticism I usually hear is that the Pats didn't run the ball enough under O'Brien. Of course, running the ball is dead in the NFL. Thanks to rule changes and billion dollar concussion lawsuits the only teams that feature the run are teams not good enough to pass. The last couple Super Bowl winners were 32nd and 24th in rushing.

 

[ivanvamp]

There are two realities with respect to the Patriots' offense.

1. They are an historically great regular season scoring machine. Last two seasons:

2010: 518 points (32.4/g) - #10 all-time
2011: 513 points (32.1/g) - #12 all-time

This isn't even counting 2007 where they scored 589 (36.8/g), which, of course, was the #1 offense all-time.

Moreover, consider how consistent this team is in putting up a lot of points:

2010:
- 14 out of 16 games with 20+ points
- 11 out of 16 games with 30+ points
- 8 out of 16 games with 35+ points

2011:
- 15 out of 16 games with 20+ points
- 13 out of 16 games with 30+ points
- 6 out of 16 games with 35+ points

Totals:
- 29 out of 32 games with 20+ points (90.6%)
- 24 out of 32 games with 30+ points (75.0%)
- 14 out of 32 games with 35+ points (43.8%)

That is unbelievably great and consistent production.

HOWEVER, consider their playoff performances. Granted, their playoff games are typically against tougher teams, but still.

Last 3 seasons:

- 14 pts vs. Bal
- 21 pts vs. NYJ
- 45 pts vs. Den
- 23 pts vs. Bal
- 17 pts vs. NYG

So out of their last 5 playoff games, they've scored 20+ in 3 of the 5. They've scored 24+ points just *once* in five games. They are averaging 24.0 ppg in the playoffs, and that is really skewed by that one outburst.

In other words, come playoff time, they consistently underperform offensively.

Now, there are several possible reasons for that:

(1) They are playing tougher defenses.
(2) They are playing better offenses, that keep their own D on the field longer, and thus keep the Pats' offense off the field more than usual (both in terms of time and in terms of # of possessions).
(3) Playcalling gets much more predictable.
(4) The players make more mistakes.

I don't know how much "credit" each of these possible causes should get. I'm sure it's a combination of things. But whatever the reason(s), these historically great offenses seriously underperform come playoff time, and it's killing them.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

This thread is proof that NEM is a meme virus

 

[Rob0729]

Honestly, and I don't want to sound like NEM here (for those who remember), but I think BOB was one of the worst offensive co-ordinators we've seen in a long time.

Sure we had the offensive numbers, but something ALOT of us are forgetting... we played absolutely nobody the latter half of the season. And in pretty much every game we lost, the offense was as much if not more to blame than our "last ranked defense".

We have tremendous talent on the offensive side of the ball and I'm really stoked to see what McDaniels can do with it.

I guess you mean on this team, but all you gotta do is look at Cam Cameron, Brian Schottenheimer, and Brad Childress to find far worse OCs.

O'Brien isn't nearly as bad as people make him out to be. I don't think he is as good as McDaniels' or Weis were, but he was very good at making adjustments which is not an easy thing for an OC to do. In his three years as OC (or at least play caller), the Pats have had some incredible numbers on offense with no outside/deep threat WR for two of them. I think O'Brien deserves a ton of credit for that.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

McDaniels could not find a way to put 20 points on the Gaints defense just like BOB could not find a way. the offense is all about Brady if you stop him you stop the offense

The offense is all about execution and if 11 players don't you stop the offense.

 

[TheComeback]

There are two realities with respect to the Patriots' offense.

1. They are an historically great regular season scoring machine. Last two seasons:

2010: 518 points (32.4/g) - #10 all-time
2011: 513 points (32.1/g) - #12 all-time

This isn't even counting 2007 where they scored 589 (36.8/g), which, of course, was the #1 offense all-time.

Moreover, consider how consistent this team is in putting up a lot of points:

2010:
- 14 out of 16 games with 20+ points
- 11 out of 16 games with 30+ points
- 8 out of 16 games with 35+ points

2011:
- 15 out of 16 games with 20+ points
- 13 out of 16 games with 30+ points
- 6 out of 16 games with 35+ points

Totals:
- 29 out of 32 games with 20+ points (90.6%)
- 24 out of 32 games with 30+ points (75.0%)
- 14 out of 32 games with 35+ points (43.8%)

That is unbelievably great and consistent production.

HOWEVER, consider their playoff performances. Granted, their playoff games are typically against tougher teams, but still.

Last 3 seasons:

- 14 pts vs. Bal
- 21 pts vs. NYJ
- 45 pts vs. Den
- 23 pts vs. Bal
- 17 pts vs. NYG

So out of their last 5 playoff games, they've scored 20+ in 3 of the 5. They've scored 24+ points just *once* in five games. They are averaging 24.0 ppg in the playoffs, and that is really skewed by that one outburst.

In other words, come playoff time, they consistently underperform offensively.

Now, there are several possible reasons for that:

(1) They are playing tougher defenses.
(2) They are playing better offenses, that keep their own D on the field longer, and thus keep the Pats' offense off the field more than usual (both in terms of time and in terms of # of possessions).
(3) Playcalling gets much more predictable.
(4) The players make more mistakes.

I don't know how much "credit" each of these possible causes should get. I'm sure it's a combination of things. But whatever the reason(s), these historically great offenses seriously underperform come playoff time, and it's killing them.

1. We didn't just play tougher defenses. We've played some of the best defenses in the league.

2. The playcalling was exactly the same as it was during the regular season--passing the majority of the time.

3. I can't believe that players making more mistakes was fourth on your list. It should be second. Brady has not executed at a high level in the postseason since 2007.

The only game where playcalling may have hurt us was 2010 vs the Jets. And we were in that game until the end.

 

[ivanvamp]

1. We didn't just play tougher defenses. We've played some of the best defenses in the league.

And the Pats put up huge points on some of the best defenses in the league during the regular season. The last regular season meeting between the Jets and Pats in 2010, the Pats put up 45 on them. The last regular season game between the Pats and Giants in 2007 the Pats put up 38 on them.

2. The playcalling was exactly the same as it was during the regular season--passing the majority of the time.

"exactly the same" eh? This past season the Pats passed 59.5% of their offensive plays. In their 3 playoff games, they passed 63.0% of their offensive plays. In the Super Bowl, they passed 69.4% of their offensive plays. As hard as it is to believe, they rely even *more* on the pass in the playoffs. That is a fact.

3. I can't believe that players making more mistakes was fourth on your list. It should be second. Brady has not executed at a high level in the postseason since 2007.

I didn't put them in order of importance...just as they came to my head. My apologies for not having it higher on the list.

The only game where playcalling may have hurt us was 2010 vs the Jets. And we were in that game until the end.

Ok.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Brady has not executed at a high level in the postseason since 2007.

There is it in my book. Brady has not executed well in the post season since before his knee surgery.

Against Denver, we may have blown them out, but we turned the ball over more than they did. Sloppiness?

Against Baltimore Brady did not have a throwing TD and we turned the ball over more than they did. Did our offense play as well as our defense that day?

Then all the off target throws against the Giants and how much that cost us. Add in the inconsistency of being hot for stretches and then cold for stretches and we all know BB strives for consistency from all his players. Did Brady save his best game for the final game? I don't think so.

 

[strngplyr]

If McDaniels runs the 2008 post Brady game plan I'd love it. Power running and PA. We need to preserve Brady, he won't be around forever. He is getting exposed to too much over the course of a season with how we threw it this year.

 

[Patspsycho]

TB isn't responsible for the personnel substitutions that provide any given play. He didn't send BJGE to the bench after a couple failed plays that's BOB's call. How is an empty backfield his doing? geezus.

BJGE went to the bench after his FIRST negative play of the game that occurred in the FOURTH quarter in a very obvious 1st and 10 run play out of the I formation with Polite in as FB. This was the same play that the Giants blew up in the regular season game because the backside pursuit wasn't sealed.

I don't have to mention that Ridley never saw the light of day despite being active over Faulk. That was one of the most aggravating things about the game. I think that alternating Ridley with BJGE would have really worn down the Giants who would have had to make constant adjustments to the different styles that both backs bring to the game.

Brandon Jacobs who already had a few stops for losses and had a LOWER YPC than BJGE, stayed in the game, with nearly twice the reps.

In regard to the playcalling, there's quite a few similarities to last year's Jets game- overreliance on the passing game, unbalanced playcalling, you name it.

It was frustrating to watch BOB using the empty over and over against the Giants 3 safety package.

 

[Deus Irae]

This thread is proof that NEM is a meme virus

It's great that it can be used for the same people to bring up the same discredited arguments all over again, though, don't you think?

Hey, let's see if we can get them to start claiming that Aiken was a good WR3 again...

 

[Ivan]

The Patriots have so many problems on offense it is hard to know where to begin, however some of these posts give us a good start. Brady sucks, BOB sucks, Belichik is hands off and it kills them, they don't know when to run and when to throw.

Hopefully McDaniels can get some production out of this ragtag unit next year, but that will only happen if BB uses all his picks and all their free agent money to load up, because it's clear the talent just isn't there.

 

[PittPatriot]

The Patriots have so many problems on offense it is hard to know where to begin, however some of these posts give us a good start. Brady sucks, BOB sucks, Belichik is hands off and it kills them, they don't know when to run and when to throw.

Hopefully McDaniels can get some production out of this ragtag unit next year, but that will only happen if BB uses all his picks and all their free agent money to load up, because it's clear the talent just isn't there.

You need to had a Smily like or or my personal favorite …or simpletons like me will think you're serious.

 

[TheComeback]

And the Pats put up huge points on some of the best defenses in the league during the regular season. The last regular season meeting between the Jets and Pats in 2010, the Pats put up 45 on them. The last regular season game between the Pats and Giants in 2007 the Pats put up 38 on them.

So? The Giants (2011 both games, 2007 SB), Ravens (2009), Steelers (2011), Chargers (2007 playoffs), all contained our offense. The Browns destroyed us. You could also argue the Ravens D played the Pats very well this year. Besides the two games you mentioned (over a span of four years), I can't remember the Patriots putting up "huge points" on any elite defense.

The Patriots offense has shown time and again that good defenses can slow it down. That shouldn't surprise anyone. No offense is invincible.

"exactly the same" eh? This past season the Pats passed 59.5% of their offensive plays. In their 3 playoff games, they passed 63.0% of their offensive plays. In the Super Bowl, they passed 69.4% of their offensive plays. As hard as it is to believe, they rely even *more* on the pass in the playoffs. That is a fact.

OK, but I don't think a 4.5% increase is statistically significant.

The last stat is not hard for me to believe. They should've ran more in the Super Bowl. I'm not defending O'Brien's performance in that game. I'm defending him for the job he's done the last two years. When you look at what the offense accomplished over the last two seasons, I just don't see how you can say the guy is a bad OC.

 

[ivanvamp]

So? The Giants (2011 both games, 2007 SB), Ravens (2009), Steelers (2011), Chargers (2007 playoffs), all contained our offense. The Browns destroyed us. You could also argue the Ravens D played the Pats very well this year. Besides the two games you mentioned (over a span of four years), I can't remember the Patriots putting up "huge points" on any elite defense.

In 2010, they scored 45 against the Jets (#3 ranked defense), 36 against Chicago (#9 ranked defense), 39 against Pittsburgh (#2 ranked defense), 31 against Green Bay (#5 ranked defense), and 41 and 38 against Miami (#6 ranked defense).

The Patriots offense has shown time and again that good defenses can slow it down. That shouldn't surprise anyone. No offense is invincible.

I wouldn't say "time and again". They certainly have had some tough games against some good defenses, but you're right - that is to be expected. The other guys get paid too.

OK, but I don't think a 4.5% increase is statistically significant.

The last stat is not hard for me to believe. They should've ran more in the Super Bowl. I'm not defending O'Brien's performance in that game. I'm defending him for the job he's done the last two years. When you look at what the offense accomplished over the last two seasons, I just don't see how you can say the guy is a bad OC.

And I agree with you on this. This team's offense, under O'Brien, has been historically great during the regular season. It's just in the playoffs they've had pretty significant problems (relative to their regular season offensive production).

 

[RhodyPatriot]

The Patriots have so many problems on offense it is hard to know where to begin, however some of these posts give us a good start. Brady sucks, BOB sucks, Belichik is hands off and it kills them, they don't know when to run and when to throw.

Hopefully McDaniels can get some production out of this ragtag unit next year, but that will only happen if BB uses all his picks and all their free agent money to load up, because it's clear the talent just isn't there.

You're partially correct. Brady sucks at times, BOB sucks at times, BB is hands off at times and yes it's true they don't know when to run and when to throw. See last 2 O possessions of Baltimore playoff game - embarrassing!!!!!

 

[Ivan]

You're partially correct. Brady sucks at times, BOB sucks at times, BB is hands off at times and yes it's true they don't know when to run and when to throw. See last 2 O possessions of Baltimore playoff game - embarrassing!!!!!

What is actually embarrassing is the way do many Patriot fans have come to expect and demand nothing short of perfection. There is no such thing in sports and while many of the criticism souled be valid on its own the extrapolation that claims the players, coaches, and team suck makes it all irrelevant.

 

[RhodyPatriot]

What is actually embarrassing is the way do many Patriot fans have come to expect and demand nothing short of perfection. There is no such thing in sports and while many of the criticism souled be valid on its own the extrapolation that claims the players, coaches, and team suck makes it all irrelevant.

No what's embarrassing is how some Patriot fans are incapable of honest critique and criticism of their own team. Far too many fanboys, pinkhats and fantasyfairy's in PatriotLand since they started winning SB's.
For the record I was responding to your post in which the word suck is prominently displayed. Tom Brady has also used it in describing his own performance against the Ravens. Not a word I routinely use at all.
It's laughable to claim that ANY Patriot fan is demanding perfection when discussing the obvious weaknesses of this team. Hate to break it to you but this high powered record breaking offense with the HOF QB is a weakness when the playoffs roll around.
They can't close out games when given multiple opportunities to do so.
Question is why and how to fix it????????