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The best thing for this team moving forward? No more BOB

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by drew4008, Feb 17, 2012.

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  1. drew4008

    drew4008 Rookie

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    Honestly, and I don't want to sound like NEM here (for those who remember), but I think BOB was one of the worst offensive co-ordinators we've seen in a long time.

    Sure we had the offensive numbers, but something ALOT of us are forgetting... we played absolutely nobody the latter half of the season. And in pretty much every game we lost, the offense was as much if not more to blame than our "last ranked defense".

    We have tremendous talent on the offensive side of the ball and I'm really stoked to see what McDaniels can do with it.
  2. robbomango

    robbomango Rookie

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    geez, change the title of this stinker.

    offer the man some courtesy and agree to disagree next time.
  3. patsfan-1982

    patsfan-1982 Rookie

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    McDaniels could not find a way to put 20 points on the Gaints defense just like BOB could not find a way. the offense is all about Brady if you stop him you stop the offense
  4. NinjaZX6R

    NinjaZX6R Rookie

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    Josh did it once. Boob didn't get past 24.
  5. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If only BOB had caught that pass from Brady....
  6. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Theres an old saying in foot ball that applies to the offense, it goes something like this. If you find something that works keep doing it until the defense stops you I don't think BOB ever heard of this but it makes a lot of sense. A good example would be BJGE is running the ball for good effect, if you applied the old saying i posted you'd keep running Benny until the defense stopped him. Did we EVER see BOB employ this strategy? very rarely if ever. How many times did we see BOB run Benny 3-4 times and then yank him (even if he was gaining 4-5 yards at a time). Then you wouldn't see Benny for a quarter or two. I'm glad hes gone
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2012
  7. Heisenberg

    Heisenberg Rookie

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    I'm happy to see him go. I feel our offense was far too bland with BOB. We had some absurd, malleable weapons, but never really surprised any defenses. It was always our best out-manning their best, which of course is great, but I feel like coaching/play-calling never put us in a position to surprise and exploit a defense. Things were so obvious, just well-executed, which led to dominating lesser opponents and being slowed down by great D's that could physically hang with us.
  8. Joker

    Joker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Did we EVER see BOB employ this strategy? very rarely if ever. How many times did we see BOB run Benny 3-4 times and then yank him (even if he was gaining 4-5 yards at a time). Then you wouldn't see Benny for a quarter or two. I'm glad hes gone

    preaching to the choir ,brother....
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2012
  9. JDot

    JDot Rookie

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    BoB was a adequate OC. Frustrating at times, especially in regards to the run game. But all things considered, the O looked good for the most part.

    I am very happy Josh is back tho. Really looking forward to see what McD does with the O.

    I wish BoB all the best at Penn State. And he is going to need it. B/c Urban Meyer is going to run the Big10 for years to come...
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2012
  10. glm

    glm Rookie

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    I'd think you'd havve to be at least kinda good if you put up back to back 500 point offenses. Just saiyan.
  11. TheComeback

    TheComeback Rookie

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    You have to be pretty spoiled to think O'Brien was anything other than a great OC.

    He played a huge role in getting the most out of these tight ends. It was also O'Brien who wanted to feature the TE position as the centerpiece of this offense in the first place. I remember Reiss making that point explicitly before they drafted Hernandez and Gronk.

    It's just unreal that people can find a way to complain about the OC who led the #3 offense in the league. He's a good coach. He could've committed to the run more at times, but it's hard to blame his thinking when you have the receivers this team does. As Belichick says, you have to look at the whole body of work, and it looks pretty damn good to me.

    I guarantee you that people complain about McDaniels this year. I remember him also getting bashed for not running enough, not making enough adjustments, etc.

    Every fan of every team thinks their OC sucks.
  12. robbomango

    robbomango Rookie

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    I was checking out some of the productivity in denvers passing game under McD, thought it was interesting

    Kyle Orton went from averaging a 55% comp, qbr of 79, 2500yds in his 1st 2 full season at Chicago to 60.5%, 86qbr, 3700yds in 2 seasons with McD.

    The ball was being spread around nicely alllowing the lower end of the depth to produce and stay active.
    In 2008 there were 5 main contributers in the receiving game, in 2009-2010 there were 7-9.

    Wide receivers LLoyd, Gaffney and Royal had different skill sets that saw marked improvement as well.

    Playing for 2 different teams Lloyd had 70rec and 996yds in 2011 getting passes from 4 different QB’s 2 jag’s freely/clemens, Orton(avrge/possible jag) and Bradford.

    Looks like McD has a knack for maximizing a players skill set and integrating it into the offense. I'd of liked to seen Ocho, Slater, Price and Edelman out there on 4WR sets just to force them some touches so they don't get cold on the bench(well if we ever had a good lead that is):p
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2012
  13. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ~~~Out of Order~~~ PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Stick to the booze that leaves the other guy away will ya'.:cool:
  14. eagle eye

    eagle eye Rookie

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    Talk to me about running backs and run blocking under Josh McD.
  15. robbomango

    robbomango Rookie

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    lol, I did, they catch better............:confused2:
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2012
  16. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    With McDaniels as OC and Cassel at the helm in 2008, the Pats RBs ranked in franchise history:
    Rushing attempts: 11th all-time/3rd in last 25 years
    Rushing yards: 6th/1st
    Rushing YPA: 5th/1st

    And in the NFL that season they ranked:
    Rushing attempts: 4th
    Rushing yards: 6th
    Rushing YPA: 7th
  17. resdubwhite

    resdubwhite Rookie

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    That was more out of neccessity with Brady out. Taking some of the load off Cassel.

    also had a pretty decent year from Jordan, Faulk and Morris too.
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2012
  18. buile

    buile PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    For those that not happy with BOB, do you feel Josh McD will be more satisfactory?

    I recall a lot of teeth-gnashing when he was here before... to the point one could probably take old Josh McD posts and put "BOB" in, and vice versa...
  19. PittPatriot

    PittPatriot PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The OC is the mother-in-law of the coaching hierarchy. We all have them, we think less of them than a friend or outsider may…and sometimes we might miss them when they are gone.
  20. RhodyPatriot

    RhodyPatriot Rookie

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    Agree with the complaint but not sure it all belongs in the lap of the OC. Much of the playcalling belongs in the lap of Tom Brady. Brady has much more say over this offense than many fans give him credit for. As long as Tommy's ego goes unchecked with BB this problem will continue. And it is a problem as we see every January when defenses are allowed to play real football and that soft arena ball the Patriots O excels at isn't anywhere near as effective.
  21. RhodyPatriot

    RhodyPatriot Rookie

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    If only it was BOB throwing that pass. Could not have done much worse with it....

    Oh well just remember this name. Billy Cundiff.
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2012
  22. robbomango

    robbomango Rookie

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    TB isn't responsible for the personnel substitutions that provide any given play. He didn't send BJGE to the bench after a couple failed plays that's BOB's call. How is an empty backfield his doing? geezus.

    All i can do is lol at the idea of BB letting ego's run rampid. :pigsfly::pigsfly::pigsfly:
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2012
  23. dhamz

    dhamz Rookie

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    Two years ago he coordinated a very effective offense despite having to change the offense during the season when Randy Moss was traded out and Deion Branch came in.

    This past season he coordinated a very effective offnese despite not having a single player who was a threat to make a play outside. You think it is easy to be that effective on offense when the defense doesn't care about 20% of the field? He did it by featuring tight ends in a way never done before in the NFL.

    If that isn't doing a good job as OC, a good job just can't be done in the eyes of some.

    The main criticism I usually hear is that the Pats didn't run the ball enough under O'Brien. Of course, running the ball is dead in the NFL. Thanks to rule changes and billion dollar concussion lawsuits the only teams that feature the run are teams not good enough to pass. The last couple Super Bowl winners were 32nd and 24th in rushing.
  24. ivanvamp

    ivanvamp Rookie

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    There are two realities with respect to the Patriots' offense.

    1. They are an historically great regular season scoring machine. Last two seasons:

    2010: 518 points (32.4/g) - #10 all-time
    2011: 513 points (32.1/g) - #12 all-time

    This isn't even counting 2007 where they scored 589 (36.8/g), which, of course, was the #1 offense all-time.

    Moreover, consider how consistent this team is in putting up a lot of points:

    2010:
    - 14 out of 16 games with 20+ points
    - 11 out of 16 games with 30+ points
    - 8 out of 16 games with 35+ points

    2011:
    - 15 out of 16 games with 20+ points
    - 13 out of 16 games with 30+ points
    - 6 out of 16 games with 35+ points

    Totals:
    - 29 out of 32 games with 20+ points (90.6%)
    - 24 out of 32 games with 30+ points (75.0%)
    - 14 out of 32 games with 35+ points (43.8%)

    That is unbelievably great and consistent production.

    HOWEVER, consider their playoff performances. Granted, their playoff games are typically against tougher teams, but still.

    Last 3 seasons:

    - 14 pts vs. Bal
    - 21 pts vs. NYJ
    - 45 pts vs. Den
    - 23 pts vs. Bal
    - 17 pts vs. NYG

    So out of their last 5 playoff games, they've scored 20+ in 3 of the 5. They've scored 24+ points just *once* in five games. They are averaging 24.0 ppg in the playoffs, and that is really skewed by that one outburst.

    In other words, come playoff time, they consistently underperform offensively.

    Now, there are several possible reasons for that:

    (1) They are playing tougher defenses.
    (2) They are playing better offenses, that keep their own D on the field longer, and thus keep the Pats' offense off the field more than usual (both in terms of time and in terms of # of possessions).
    (3) Playcalling gets much more predictable.
    (4) The players make more mistakes.

    I don't know how much "credit" each of these possible causes should get. I'm sure it's a combination of things. But whatever the reason(s), these historically great offenses seriously underperform come playoff time, and it's killing them.
  25. PatsWickedPissah

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    This thread is proof that NEM is a meme virus
  26. Rob0729

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    I guess you mean on this team, but all you gotta do is look at Cam Cameron, Brian Schottenheimer, and Brad Childress to find far worse OCs.

    O'Brien isn't nearly as bad as people make him out to be. I don't think he is as good as McDaniels' or Weis were, but he was very good at making adjustments which is not an easy thing for an OC to do. In his three years as OC (or at least play caller), the Pats have had some incredible numbers on offense with no outside/deep threat WR for two of them. I think O'Brien deserves a ton of credit for that.
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2012
  27. MoLewisrocks

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    The offense is all about execution and if 11 players don't you stop the offense.
  28. TheComeback

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    1. We didn't just play tougher defenses. We've played some of the best defenses in the league.

    2. The playcalling was exactly the same as it was during the regular season--passing the majority of the time.

    3. I can't believe that players making more mistakes was fourth on your list. It should be second. Brady has not executed at a high level in the postseason since 2007.

    The only game where playcalling may have hurt us was 2010 vs the Jets. And we were in that game until the end.
  29. ivanvamp

    ivanvamp Rookie

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    And the Pats put up huge points on some of the best defenses in the league during the regular season. The last regular season meeting between the Jets and Pats in 2010, the Pats put up 45 on them. The last regular season game between the Pats and Giants in 2007 the Pats put up 38 on them.

    "exactly the same" eh? This past season the Pats passed 59.5% of their offensive plays. In their 3 playoff games, they passed 63.0% of their offensive plays. In the Super Bowl, they passed 69.4% of their offensive plays. As hard as it is to believe, they rely even *more* on the pass in the playoffs. That is a fact.

    I didn't put them in order of importance...just as they came to my head. My apologies for not having it higher on the list.

    Ok.
  30. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    There is it in my book. Brady has not executed well in the post season since before his knee surgery.

    Against Denver, we may have blown them out, but we turned the ball over more than they did. Sloppiness?

    Against Baltimore Brady did not have a throwing TD and we turned the ball over more than they did. Did our offense play as well as our defense that day?

    Then all the off target throws against the Giants and how much that cost us. Add in the inconsistency of being hot for stretches and then cold for stretches and we all know BB strives for consistency from all his players. Did Brady save his best game for the final game? I don't think so.
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