Official Giants @ Pats postgame thread

[Triumph]

Except, had you actually watched the game, you'd have seen that Brady was the one with all the bad throws to EVERY receiver. So, to focus just on OCHO is you showing your bias. And Ocho was running his routes well last night and was open more times than not. Yet Brady didn't hit him. Brady's throws were either over-thrown, under-thrown or off the mark.. Go back and watch.

Oh, and Ocho was not brought in to stretch the field. He was brought in to run the Intermediate routes.

I watched the game. Ive watched all the games.

Funny how Welker and Gronk can catch Bradys passes, but Ocho doesnt. Ocho was a 6 million dollar mistake, but lets blame Brady so the move doesnt look so bad.

Clearly you never watched Ocho in Cincinnati. Housmanzadeh was the possession WR and Ocho stretched the field. When TO went to Cinci, Ocho switched to shorter routes and let TO be the deep threat.

Ocho was brought to NE to be a deep threat. Not to complete with Edelman, Welker, Branch and Woody for dink and dunk receptions allowing Safetys to play close to the LOS. That makes no sense at all.

 

[DaBruinz]

The "Why?" is easy:

Jackson over Jennings
Tate over Wallace
McCourty over Bryant
Moss' decline and/or jettisoning

Whether you were/are fine with those moves or not, the question isn't really "Why?", the question is "How can they fix this right away?".

Hopefully, Warroom will give us better insight on why BB made the decision on Jackson that he did. And whether or not Jennings was on the Pats board from the scouts/coaches..

Tate over Wallace...Wallace was seen as being as much of a project as Tate from a route running perspective. And Wallace didn't have the return abilities that Tate did..

 

[DaBruinz]

Yes, he is. Watch where Brady throws the ball and where Ocho is.

ZERO catches in 3 games.

No he isn't. But I wouldn't expect you to understand that. You hate Ocho so much you refuse to acknowledge reality.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Tracy "fing" White

I've been glad to see you becoming less of a homer, but now instead of attacking 'chicken littles' so much, you've turned your wrath towards the referees week after week to the point of being like a broken record. I've never gotten people who consistently use poor officiating as an excuse for losing.

Why not just acknowledge that the better team won today (and last week). This team has some big problems right now (some of which you acknowledge), but constantly complaining about the refs is about the biggest exercise in futility (or denial) that I can imagine.

Except that I don't turn my wrath on the officials week after week. I turn it on them when they earn it.

The better team didn't win. The Giants were handed the game by the referees.. Clear as day.. You want to ignore it, fine. Do so.

Had the refs not handed Manning and the Giants the game on that last drive, then' I'd have no issue. But, that took it over the edge.

OH, and last week, I complained about Ryan Clark and his head-hunting. And funny, I saw no news that he got fined.. Though he committed at least 3 helmet to helmet hits..

 

[Triumph]

Except that the rules state that the defensive player is entitled to the space he's standing in and it says that the offensive player cannot initiate contact. Manningham initiated the contact. That makes it OFFENSIVE PI.

It was PI on the Pats all the way.

You cannot block the path of the WR and get all up in his face without playing the ball. None of the NE DBs play the ball. Their heads are always turned away from the path of the ball. Watch Revis or Woodson and then watch this cast of NE CBs.

You know its bad when you have to resort to blaming the Refs on why the game was lost.

 

[DaBruinz]

Ochocinco comes up empty again

Tom Brady targeted Ocho five times. The incompletions were -- in nearly every case -- not even near misses.

Whether it was Brady making poor throws, Ocho running the wrong routes at the wrong depth and with the wrong timing, it's impossible to divine.

Another garbage article by curran. Too bad Ocho was targets more than that.. And it's not impossible to divine that Brady was making bad throws when they are clear as day.. Chad running an out route and Brady throws the ball 5 yards in front of Chad despite Chad running full speed.. That's Brady.

Just like it's Brady when Chad is running his route and Brady over-throws him by 10 yards and you can tell there would have been no way for Ocho to get to where Brady throw the ball.

Or how about all the badly throw balls to the other receivers? You know the ones that were flat and dropping like stones and required the receivers to bend over for them and killing just about any chance for the receiver to get YAC?

 

[DaBruinz]

It was PI on the Pats all the way.

You cannot block the path of the WR and get all up in his face without playing the ball. None of the NE DBs play the ball. Their heads are always turned away from the path of the ball. Watch Revis or Woodson and then watch this cast of NE CBs.

You know its bad when you have to resort to blaming the Refs on why the game was lost.

WRONG. Manningham initiated the Contact. You just can't admit that. And contact initiated by the offensive player is offensive PI. Not defensive because the Defensive player is entitled to the space he's occupying.

As for watching Revis, the guy is a douche and commits more penalties on a play than any CB that's ever played the game.

I've watched Woodson play and I've seen him not get called when the receiver runs into him.

BTW, I also blame Brady for his pathetic throws yesterday.

I love how people like you ignore incorrectly called penalties and act like they didn't have a direct affect on the outcome of the game. Hell, if the holding by Manningham had been called, it changes the game. But you'd rather ignore reality than deal with it. Just like you do with Chad.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Should our defense be riding in the short bus?

the 21th ranked offense they played with that year did not help that defense out very much + they were still 11th vs the pass

The problem with the 2002 team was that they didn't have a legitimate Nose Tackle and were horrible against the run..

This year, they are horrible against the Pass and don't have a legitimate safety opposite Chung.

 

[DaBruinz]

Damn if Tom Brady is not perfect for every god damn play. Maybe you should apply the same god damn set of standards for the New England Patriots defense for a change.

Brady was off most of the game. He is solely to blame for both interceptions and the 3rd one that Boley dropped. And the 4th one that Grant dropped. Seriously. Brady's passes were horrible for almost the entire game. It was only when he was putting a decent arc on them that were where they were supposed to be..

 

[DaBruinz]

maybe if belichick drafted better he wouldn't have to play those two clowns

How would drafting better negate the fact that Spikes and Guyton were both out with injury during the game and that Fletcher has been out due to surgery??

That's 3 ILBs injured. That will tax any depth.

 

[IllegalContact]

unfortunately, the 2 PI calls were legit.......in this day and age of politics and appearance, the defender in those instances needs to at least give the appearance that he is looking for the ball......

the problem starts further upfield on one call.....our corners lack the speed and strength to keep the WR on the outside shoulder while progressing down the field......the same exact thing that happened on the deep throws has been a consistent problem...either the DB coach is clueless, or the DB's are just physically inept

face it.......this pass defense can't stop anyone.

 

[SeymourTrophies]

Re: Tracy "fing" White

Except that I don't turn my wrath on the officials week after week. I turn it on them when they earn it.

The better team didn't win. The Giants were handed the game by the referees.. Clear as day.. You want to ignore it, fine. Do so.

Had the refs not handed Manning and the Giants the game on that last drive, then' I'd have no issue. But, that took it over the edge.

OH, and last week, I complained about Ryan Clark and his head-hunting. And funny, I saw no news that he got fined.. Though he committed at least 3 helmet to helmet hits..

He could play without arms and still play his game. Although I did get some gratification from, despite Clark using his billy goat tackling technique, Gronkowski burying him on his attempted tackle earlier in the game.

I didn't think there was an argument on the brown PI call, but I felt, considering the flow of the game and the amount of contact and looking back to the ball that the refs were allowing both secondaries, that the Arrington PI call was soft.

 

[BKBroiler]

Because you're making an essential absolute with your "two loss..." argument, just as the opposing side is with the Colts equivalent. If they are being absurd, so are you.

Wow you clearly don't pay attention and make counter arguments without knowing what your commenting on. My comment before you decided to chime in was that the Pats were competitive in two losses where their QB gave up 3 and 4 turnovers. How is it absurd to say that there is enough talent on the team to help Brady cover those mistakes and to prevent the Patriots from being 0-8 if Brady wasn't the QB?

 

[Deus Irae]

Wow you clearly don't pay attention and make counter arguments without knowing what your commenting on. My comment before you decided to chime in was that the Pats were competitive in two losses where their QB gave up 3 and 4 turnovers. How is it absurd to say that there is enough talent on the team to help Brady cover those mistakes and to prevent the Patriots from being 0-8 if Brady wasn't the QB?

Umm...... no.

This statement is a complete joke and reaffirms that people love to overreact. Two of the team's three losses have been by 3pts and 4pts. Don't forget that Brady turned the ball over himself 4 and 3 times respectively in those games. If the team can still be competitive in a game despite that many turnovers by its star QB, then its fairly obvious that they wouldn't be down around the 0-8, 1-7, or 2-6 mark. Looking back, the only game that the team may have lost that they won if Hoyer started was the Dallas game, but don't forget that Brady had some awful plays despite being clutch at the end.

It's right there in black and white.

 

[TriplecHamp]

just went back and looked at the packers 2010 schedule. They lost a lot of close games. 6 losses by a combined 20 points. Close losses hurt but like BB said its only a matter of one or two plays that weren't made. I'm over this game. All I care about is winning the division and anyhig can happen in the playoffs. The packers made some plays down the stretch and that's why they won it all. This team can do the same.

 

[BKBroiler]

Umm...... no.



It's right there in black and white.

Yup, exactly what I've been saying in black in white. In fact I've said this multiple times now. The Pats would have been competitive in every game this season (with Dallas maybe being the only additional potential loss) because of the talent of the team even if Brady was out. They would not be anywhere near a 0-8 / 1-7 record they'd need to have in order to be in the Andrew Luck sweepstakes, which is what this entire argument is about. Face it, you just like to try to mix words and take a counter point for the sake of being a contrarian.

 

[Deus Irae]

Yup, exactly what I've been saying in black in white. In fact I've said this multiple times now. The Pats would have been competitive in every game this season (with Dallas maybe being the only additional potential loss) because of the talent of the team even if Brady was out. They would not be anywhere near a 0-8 / 1-7 record they'd need to have in order to be in the Andrew Luck sweepstakes, which is what this entire argument is about. Face it, you just like to try to mix words and take a counter point for the sake of being a contrarian.

You said that they'd have only lost one of the games that they've won. It's in black and white. Keep pretending that I'm the one mixing words, though.

 

[ivanvamp]

It was PI on the Pats all the way.

You cannot block the path of the WR and get all up in his face without playing the ball. None of the NE DBs play the ball. Their heads are always turned away from the path of the ball. Watch Revis or Woodson and then watch this cast of NE CBs.

I didn't have a problem at all with the PI on Arrington. I *did* have a problem that, on the 3rd down pass to Gronk in the front left corner of the end zone, there was no PI penalty on the Giants when their defender played it EXACTLY THE SAME WAY ARRINGTON DID. Exactly.

On both plays:

- The pass went down the left sideline.
- The ball was a bit underthrown.
- The defender never turned around, and his back was to the ball.
- There was slight contact.
- The ball ended up incomplete.

NE got flagged while the Giants did not. I realize the Pats scored on the next play, but still, it's the principle of the thing.

While I'm on it, I'm more committed than ever to the idea that there needs to be two levels of PI penalties.

Major: The larger of either 15 yards or where the contact happened.
Minor: The lesser of either 15 yards or where the contact happened.

In both cases, give the offense an automatic first down.

The PI on Arrington would have been a minor 15 yarder. Instead it was a 35 yard penalty. The PI on Brown would have been a major (even though the ball was totally uncatchable). In most cases the PI would be a minor.

It's amazing to me that a personal foul penalty that can get a player *suspended* is only 15 yards, while a ticky-tack pass interference penalty can cost a team 40-50 yards. It's ridiculous.

 

[BKBroiler]

You said that they'd have only lost one of the games that they've won. It's in black and white. Keep pretending that I'm the one mixing words, though.

Yes I said that. I know I said that. In fact, I've said it multiple times. You just keep failing to realize the whole point of the comment in the first place. For the last time, I was responding to whoever said the Pats would be in the Andrew Luck sweepstakes if Brady wasn't on the team. The Pats are clearly better than 0-8 or 1-7 and their team performances have proved that. They've had multiple team wins this year with Dallas being the only game Brady elevated his play at the end to make sure they won the game. On top of that, two of their three losses were by less than 4 points with the team having at least three turnovers by Brady in each. Pretty sure that doesn't make my belief that they're around a .500 through eight game without Brady absurd like you called it multiple times.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Except that the rules state that the defensive player is entitled to the space he's standing in and it says that the offensive player cannot initiate contact. Manningham initiated the contact. That makes it OFFENSIVE PI.

You apparently don't understand the rules of PI. Tough break for Arrington but the defensive player is only entitled to the space he's standing in when he's standing in it. Arrington was running through it when a receiver attempted to come back for a ball and Arrington didn't have a clue what was happening because he never looked back for the ball...

And as for your misguided defense of Ocho...8 games 9 catches...like Holley just explained to an impassioned caller who like yourself wants to blame Brady despite overwhelming historical data to the contrary... Brady made some tough throws under pressure to receivers in tight coverage. He told Aikman before the game that what he loves about the young TE's is their ability to catch the ball low where few defenders can make a play on it... It's simply a lot more likely that the receivers are making mistakes than Brady is just having a bad day for no reason every time schit happens...

I know Tedy doesn't have a clue about this team, but he has a world of experience playing on teams with Brady and Belichick and his observations, while you have to take them with a grain of salt (i.e. when he compares what Bill should have done based on teams he was part of with what he is doing with a team that lacks the kind of veteran leadership or talent on defense that was present in all his years here). But his observation that this isn't football heaven but rather a football academy where the persuit of excellence is the ultimate goal is spot on. Close only counts in horseshoes...and in Cincy. Ocho thinks he has all the time in the world to figure things out. He has as many catches and yards this season as Welker had in one game...yesterday. The OC was obviously planning on featuring another WR in that spot yesterday, but the kid just can't get on the field because he is so injury prone he can't make it through the final walkthrough without tweeking a hammy... And unfortunately as Tedy also observed every target that Chad and Brady fail to connect on is just one less target for a potential playmaker like Welker or one of the TE's who are playmakers to capitalize on.