A tale of a draft SQUANDERED....

[Deus Irae]

So, what's your point?

Has Matt Millen ever had 10 consecutive winning seasons? Has Matt Millen ever had 1 winning season? Should Matt Millen and BB ever be compared?

The point is that "He knows more" would apply to everyone in the NFL. If that's your argument, you might as well shut down every sports message board in the world, because every single discussion can be ended with "He knows more".

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

I agree, the second RB left me scratching my head but it's obvious that the Pats identified a need after the Jets stoned our run game in the playoffs. Whether we attribute that to the Pats or the Jets is personal opinion.

Ridley totaled 15 TD's last season while reliably pounding and grinding it out in the very tough SEC. That's serious production! And, he's got tons of tread left on those tires!

 

[Irish Hooligan]

Let me tell you guys what is hard and what is seven shades of painful. I get my kids on Fridays and I drive about an hour and fifteen round trip. So in the new format I miss based on the mountain time zone the first half to two thirds of round 2. What is hard? I don't drink when I have my kids. Seven shades of painful is going four days a week without them. I tell you that to tell you this, I can't believe I am sober for this draft. I have no idea what to think, I agree with the logical in BB we trust stuff, and I share the emotions of the wtf fml crowd. I do not know how people go through life sober like this. I cannot make heads or tails of any of this without at least 8 beers and a friend from junior high talking out of their arse. I like Solder, Veeren, and I don't mind I Ras I think he is a safety here but I just don't know. I cannot process all of this anxiety at once. I feel for everyone and I agree with everyone. Expect some sort of emotional and psychotic post draft diatribe Sunday night about oh let's say six.

 

[bucky]

Today on NFLN, Charlie Casserly said this was one of the weakest 2nd rounds he'd ever seen. There are some on this board (yes, like myself) who have for a while that this was a weak draft.

It should be pretty obvious that BB didn't like this draft either:

He punted 2 mid-round picks.
He traded down from 60 although he didn't get good value according to the value chart.
He used a mid-3rd on a guy who will probably be a 3rd string QB for 2 years.
He used another mid-3rd on a short yardage back and ST player.

He seemingly desperately tried to move 33 into next year, but when he couldn't, he decided to pick BPA rather than trade down for more garbage picks.

Given that it was a poor draft, I don't know how you can claim that this was a "squandered" opportunity. Now, I don't agree with some of the decisions either, but to say that this is the beginning of the end is pretty ridiculous. Especially if you consider that free agency comes after the draft this year.

 

[Deus Irae]

I agree, the second RB left me scratching my head but it's obvious that the Pats identified a need after the Jets stoned our run game in the playoffs. Whether we attribute that to the Pats or the Jets is personal opinion.

Fair enough point on the Jets thing. Now to the OT.

Can we agree that Light was good enough to hold the fort, and that, assuming J. Kraft wasn't lying today, the Patriots want him back, which makes Solder largely an expensive cheerleader for the next year or two?

 

[Deus Irae]

Today on NFLN, Charlie Casserly said this was one of the weakest 2nd rounds he'd ever seen. There are some on this board (yes, like myself) who have for a while that this was a weak draft.

It should be pretty obvious that BB didn't like this draft either:

He punted 2 mid-round picks.
He traded down from 60 although he didn't get good value according to the value chart.
He used a mid-3rd on a guy who will probably be a 3rd string QB for 2 years.
He used another mid-3rd on a short yardage back and ST player.

He seemingly desperately tried to move 33 into next year, but when he couldn't, he decided to pick BPA rather than trade down for more garbage picks.

Given that it was a poor draft, I don't know how you can claim that this was a "squandered" opportunity. Now, I don't agree with some of the decisions either, but to say that this is the beginning of the end is pretty ridiculous. Especially if you consider that free agency comes after the draft this year.

Bucky if the second round was such crap, BB should have been trading up in the first, given the firepower he had to get it done, wouldn't you think?

 

[pchicola]

I had a while without coming to patsfans.com and as I read the first post of this thread, I remembered why.

The more I read some Patriots fans write posts here, the more I'm convinced that they do not have any idea on how this team became what it is right now.

First of all, the 2010 defense was no that bad. In fact, I remember that everyone was excited about the future of the D, and the fact that most players are so young is so promising. Having said that, this D needs leadership and poise, attributes which are mostly generated by veterans. We do not need to get any younger, we need to continue developing the guys we have.

Second, and related to the previous point, I wouldn't be surprised if we go after a veteran pass rusher in Free Agency.

Third, by adding another CB we are covering our backs for injury. Last year we were lucky that both Arrington and McCourty were mostly healthy during the season. Imagine what could have happened if not. CB's always get hurt, and in a passing league, you can't have many of them. As well, I prefer having Pat Chung playing as a Safety and not as a Nickelback as he did last year.

Fourth, we need to start to recognize the unthinkable. Brady is turning 35 and he is been injury prone the last few years (the ankle for SB 42, the knee in 2008, ribs and finger in 2009, foot in 2010) and certainly that's not gonna improve. So, just as in 2008, BB wants to create some competition for the backup role, in case someone (probably Hoyer) has to come in for Brady for a long period of time. Remember that in 08, we drafted O'Connell, and yes, he turned out to be a bust, but at least he created the competition that could have sparked Matt Cassell's improvement.

Fifth, please, understand BB drafting philosophy. YOU DO NOT DRAFT PLAYERS FOR NEED! You draft players because of value. In a young team, which needs some veteran presence more rookies are less valued. As well, by trading for future picks, it gives us more flexibility than the rest of the teams to go to free agency and the trading period than the rest of the teams. We can trade a 2012's 2nd or even a 1st pick and we would be in a good position, while other teams are could enter that phase without many trading chips.

Sixth, you draft 2 running backs, because you are losing 2 or 3. This season Faulk, Taylor and Morris probably won't be back. So we need a change of pace for BJGE, we need a 3rd down pass catcher (which I thinkl we have in Woody) and we need a short-yardage fullback.

So people, dont complain just yet, please!

 

[Synovia]

Fair enough point on the Jets thing. Now to the OT.

Can we agree that Light was good enough to hold the fort, and that, assuming J. Kraft wasn't lying today, the Patriots want him back, which makes Solder largely an expensive cheerleader for the next year or two?

Did Kraft say they wanted him back at LT?


Also, you do know that there is going to be football played not just next year, right? Teams need to draft for the future.

 

[Brady'sButtBoy]

The whole draft smacks of arrogance, classic BB. We know more than anyone else! And sometimes we're right...

Solder - eh. May be a star - some day -but we could have traded back from 17 a few spots gaining a 3rd and 4th, and still gotten Solder or at least Constanzo, or even Cam Jordan AND Mark Ingram, and then traded 33 for a 1st next year that would have certainly been MUCH higher than NO's will be. If BB thought we needed some RB talent then why not get the stud RB of the draft AND pick up extra picks AND get help for the 3rd down problem? Ugh.

Taking Dowling at 33 is difficult to understand when we could have moved down 3, 4, 5, 6, etc., spots and still got this guy who was bound for much later in the round/draft while picking up at least an extra 3rd, minimum, probably more. Value? BB talks value all the time. Well where's the value in taking a guy who despite his borderline 1st round talent has had enough injury issues that every assesment you could read on him had him in the very late 2nd at the earliest. Was Dowling that much better than Williams - picked next - that he was worth the highest pick in the 2nd AND what we lost by moving down just a few spots? No way.

Then Vereen? OK, he's Faulk's replacement. Eh, we'll see, it's hard to say other backs were better.

Picking Ridley leaves me confused and frustated. Ridley is a fine player, he will help, he's a character guy from a big time program, yeah, yeah, yeah. But without using two picks anywhere near this high we've pieced together a RB squad the last few years that worked well enough compared to a near complete inability to pressure the opposing QB. An arrogant, almost defiant pick. Or, even worse, an almost clueless one.

Then Mallet? I watched a bunch of interviews, etc. with him. I could be wrong but here's my take - Ryan Leaf II. Great arm, leader, etc., but something just doesn't click when you look him in the eyes. But great, we have Brady's replacement for 4rys from now when he quits in frustration from not being able to win another SB. And that makes me sad...

But what about our inability to get off the field on 3rd down? Or the pathetic sight of a very average guy like Sanchez carving up our D because we can't get a fingernail on him when he goes back to pass?

Nope, we don't have worry about what the entire NFL is crazy for - a good pass rush. Nope, the all knowing-all arrogant one says we don't even need to take a Sam Acho, or any flier on a a guy who can rush. Nope, we'll trade our remaining 3rd and our only 4th for a pick next year. Great, it's a 2nd but Brady will 35!!!

ugh.

 

[Synovia]

Bucky if the second round was such crap, BB should have been trading up in the first, given the firepower he had to get it done, wouldn't you think?

Only if he could get more value doing that than trading into next year. Generally thats not the case.

 

[BSR]

The point is that "He knows more" would apply to everyone in the NFL. If that's your argument, you might as well shut down every sports message board in the world, because every single discussion can be ended with "He knows more".

Yes, because everyone knows that message boards would be totally useless without being flooded with uninformed opinion.

 

[PATSNUTme]

Yes, because everyone knows that message boards would be totally useless without being flooded with uninformed opinion.

 

[Deus Irae]

Yes, because everyone knows that message boards would be totally useless without being flooded with uninformed opinion.

Yes, being less informed than the most informed people in the world is exactly the same as being uninformed.

 

[upstater1]

Guys relax. It's a ritual every year to blast Belichick. You're going to tell me that people liked Chung and Vollmer? Did people like McCourty and Cunningham?

Relax, we go through this every year.

 

[skinnydog]

I think the Pats draft has been brilliant thus far.

Dowling is a highly skilled DB who might well have been long gone by the time the Pats picked (yesterday) had he remained healthy this past season. Sounds like great value should his health check out.

The two RB's were NEEDED selections as the Pats are looking at replacing the

As for the lack of defensive players ..... it's about time BB started adding some skill to the offense. The Pats have loaded up on defenders for 4 years now ..... that side of the ball is stacked with youngsters already. I doubt any drafted kid would have been a slam dunk upgrade over what is already on the team. Maybe a stud OLB but how many of them were around for the taking?

Really? You think the pats needed some help on offense?? They put up a ton of points last year, but their defense was dead last in getting off the field on third down last year and you think they needed help on offense? ( and I would agree they needed a offensive) tackle

 

[bucky]

Bucky if the second round was such crap, BB should have been trading up in the first, given the firepower he had to get it done, wouldn't you think?

I completely, totally, and utterly agree. I think that while Atlanta overpaid a little to move up to #6, BB could have done it with probably 17, 33, and 92.

 

[Triumph]

When we look back on this draft in a few years it will probably be looked at as the point in history that marked the beginning of the end of the Patriots run of excellence. Yes it might take a few years, but THIS was the point where it started to go down hill.

There is NOTHING I can think of that explains what happened tonight. Forget about all the missed opportunities we had in the first round. We DID end up with a good player, even if it wasn't at the position of our perceived need. But how can you explain the following.

1. Ras I Dowling at #33 OK you can rationalize the picking ANOTHER CB - He's big, he's versatile, he's got great straight line speed. However he has a LONG history of injuries, a lack of quickness, and reportedly is just an average tackler. Still I could have lived with the pick.

What I can't live with is the squandering of the draft position. I find it impossible to believe that we couldn't find a trade partner willing to take the spot. Bill admitted that the Pats had gotten offered on Thursday for the pick. Yet somehow BB felt it was THAT urgent to pick a guy in a position of great depth with a pick that had premium value as trade bait....for a guy many thought was a 3rd round pick.

But then it gets worse.....

Vereen was one of the RB's I'd come like...but in the 3rd or 4th round, NOT as the 2nd RB to come off the board. He's a nice addition, but he's not a guy that will move the chains with tough 3rd and short runs. That was Daniel Thomas, or Mike Leshure. But OK, BB has surprised us with guys who we thought were picked too early, but turned out great like Volmer. At this point I'm not happy, but I'm still accepting.

But then it gets worse....

We pick up ANOTHER RB - Its as if BB is admitting I spent a premium pick on a guy who I know is 3rd down player, so I have go get ANOTHER RB who CAN pick up those "move the chains" tough runs

But then it gets worse.....much worse.

So instead of picking up someone who can help our Defensive front 7, or compete for the open spot at G, or be the guy who can stretch a defense; he picks up a VERY questionable character guy who in his best usage will be to be traded in 3 or 4 years for a high draft pick. While, if I were Ryan Mallet, I'd be THRILLED to be going to a team where I can spend the next 3 years maturing as a person, and learning the game from the best, it does NOTHING to make this a better team for the foreseeable future....NOTHING GREAT pick for Ryan Mallet, HORRIBLE pick for the Pats

BTW - the more I think about Mallet the LESS I understand it. If you want to think of a QB who most resembles him in style and physical skills, isn't it Drew Bledsoe. He's not the guy who will step back and throw bubble screens. He's not mobile in the pocket. He's not athletic. He's a tall guy with a big arm who throws the ball down the field. In other words he's DREW.....at best. Didn't we already decide that is NOT the kind of QB we like.

And haven't we tried this experiment before with the kid who was the MVP in Europe, and Kevin O'Connor......and haven't they BOTH failed. The more I think about it the LESS I can understand or justify it.

I don't even care who the damned 3rd pick in the round is. It will probably end up being the best FG holder available. Doesn't matter. All I know is that THIS great and rare opportunity to add significant IMPACT players to an already very good team has been lost.

NO impact at OLB

NO impact at on the DL

NO impact at WR

NO ONE to replace Steven Neal at G

But we do now have the most physically talented #3 QB in the NFL

The Pass rush isn't any better

The TEAM its self isn't any better. 6 picks in the first 100 and the team isn't materially better than the one that started the damned draft.

All we got is a LT for the future, and more depth at RB and the DB. BUT NO ONE who makes the team better for next year.

Just one potential starter and he probably would benefit if he didn't have to start. He may have all pro potential, but NEXT YEAR, he isn't going to be better than the All pro he replaces......And as for the rest....totally unexplainable.

Bill might recover some in FA. Maybe that was the plan all along to address the rush. But it STILL wouldn't explain the squandering to so many picks at so premium a position. WHAT A WASTE.

A draft that was SQUANDERED.....perhaps the beginning of the end?

 

[skinnydog]

Guys relax. It's a ritual every year to blast Belichick. You're going to tell me that people liked Chung and Vollmer? Did people like McCourty and Cunningham?

Relax, we go through this every year.

Uh, most were upset with McCourty because they wanted a defensive end or linebacker and most were happy with the other picks you list.

Why is this so hard to understand? The picks might be pretty good, but if the D can't get off the field again on third down, it's all for naught.

 

[Deus Irae]

I completely, totally, and utterly agree. I think that while Atlanta overpaid a little to move up to #6, BB could have done it with probably 17, 33, and 92.

I think this is why a lot of people are flummoxed. The Patriots had choices they could have made, and they made choices that were questionable when other options would have made sense.

 

[ausbacker]

Fair enough point on the Jets thing. Now to the OT.

Can we agree that Light was good enough to hold the fort, and that, assuming J. Kraft wasn't lying today, the Patriots want him back, which makes Solder largely an expensive cheerleader for the next year or two?

Yes I think Light is still good enough to hold the fort. I'm pretty pleased with the Solder pick that said. I don't see what BB is doing is a short term strategy but that of a guy who looks set to stay in New England for many years beyond Tom Brady's retirement.

I do see the need for the let's win now argument and I was shattered when the Pats killed themselves against the Jets but let's face it, the Pats killed themselves it wasn't the Jets playing a tremendous game of football.