What position SHOULD the Pats draft first?

[State]

If you like brandon deadrick even a little you should love dareus. I dont see why people say he isnt a fit. After we drafted deadrick i went over to secdigitalnetwork and watched a few bama games. To my surprise it wasnt #95(deadrick) making plays, but none other than the other de #57(dareus) making play after play. Dareus seemed more disruptive than cody most of the time. So if deadrick can play for us i am soooo certain that dareus can.

Ochmed likes him, too here.

I think he has played against much better competition than Suh did coming out of Nebraska, where I saw Suh manhandled by Texas Tech's Brandon Carter, who was a late round pick last year. Am I saying he's better than Suh? Time will tell.

I don't think Marcell Dareus is incapable of doing anything the coaches ask of him. This kind of speed, strength, and quickness is a 300 pounders is uncanny. Plus, he has a high speed motor. I know his arms may be a little short, but I think he can do for us what he's done for years for Saban.

Alas, though, he probably goes too high and we'd have to give up too much to move up to get him. So we "settle" on Cameron Heyward or someone like that.

 

[patman52]

First, I am assuming both Light and Mankins gets signed.

Watt or Jordan

 

[Water Boy]

Which is what is known as a three technique. It's what he is and always has been. Great player, poor fit.

Jays52, I value your opinion. Could you expand a little on why you think Dareus does not project as a 5 technique, but JJ Watt does?

Thanks

 

[patsfaninpa]

First, I am assuming both Light and Mankins gets signed.

Watt or Jordan

That's what I'm thinking Patman. Deaderick, Brace, Pryor and Love have struggled to get on the field. Don't want to go thru this again next year. I see those guys as backup/depth guys. Get a kid early and rotate him with G.Warren opposite Ty Warren. I'd love to get M. Dareus but he will be long gone. I watch a lot of SEC games. Dareus battled through injuries this year and just refused to come out of games. He's a warrior. Dallas would be out of their minds if they don't draft him. They pick 6th if they lose. Winner of sf/ariz game would jump them. They need to toughen up that football team. And, he'd be a great start.

I think we'll get a crack at Watt or Jordan. Hopefully Oakland loses today. Box likes M. Wilkerson from Temple too. Don't know much about him. But, he's 6'5"300lb and has a big frame. Built like JJ Watt. Maybe, one or two of those 6 win teams win. Then, I'd trade up for a 3-4 olb. There's a few out there; J. Houston, V. Miller, R. Kerrigan, A. Smith.

 

[ayjackson]

Dallas would be out of their minds if they don't draft him. They pick 6th if they lose. Winner of sf/ariz game would jump them. They need to toughen up that football team. And, he'd be a great start.

They could take a corner (Prince) too. DE is deep and they might wait to take Watt, Wilkerson, et al in the second.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

First, I am assuming both Light and Mankins gets signed.

Watt or Jordan

Watt had a very nice bowl game against a stud OT in TCU's Cannon. Wisconsin moved him around a ton and he made a few plays.

My problem with Watt is that when teams run at him, they get yards. His technique is all wrong and he will need a ton of work and need to add a ton of strength in order to ever start for us.

Jordan is very interesting. He seems a bit too big for OLB and a bit to small for DE. But he is a big time pass rusher. I am not sure he is that stud against the run that we need at DE, but he can get after the QB.

 

[Water Boy]

My problem with Watt is that when teams run at him, they get yards. His technique is all wrong and he will need a ton of work and need to add a ton of strength in order to ever start for us.

Watt got burned a few times on option running plays where he was unblocked. It was a great job reading him by the TCU QB

Jordan is very interesting. He seems a bit too big for OLB and a bit to small for DE. But he is a big time pass rusher. I am not sure he is that stud against the run that we need at DE, but he can get after the QB.

I think the same can be said for Allen Bailey.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Watt got burned a few times on option running plays where he was unblocked. It was a great job reading him by the TCU QB.

Yes he did, however in most 4-3 defenses, when the end crashes down, the LBers have to fill, I think the fact that Dalton had success running showed more about poor LBer play than anything else.


Bailey, Heyward, Klug, Clayborn and many others are in this category and to me it says 4-3 defense only.

 

[PatsCanDoIt]

We can expect a top guy to drop out of the top ten. DraftTek's big board has the following:

Andrew Luck
Nick Fairley
Prince Amukamara
Marcell Dareus
Da'Quan Bowers
Patrick Peterson
Mark Ingram
Cameron Jordan
Robert Quinn
AJ Green

I think there are many obstacles in our path to a DE or OLB in the first. Almost every team ahead of 1A will either be looking for Dline/pass rush help or a QB. A QB selection is often pressured by ownership. This year there are several QB prospects that have great measurables. Luck, Locker, Mallett, Newton, Ponder, Gabbert, Stanzi. I think Luck, Newton, Mallett and Gabbert will be 1st rounders.

QB:
Carolina
San Fran (New coach and GM)
Buffalo (They were looking last year)
Arizona
Seattle (Maybe)
Redskins

Dline:
Denver
Buffalo
Cleveland
Seattle
Redskins

The teams that probably won't take Dline or a QB are Dallas, Houston, Tennessee, and Cincinnati. Bengals should take Patrick Peterson but I think they take AJ Green because Ocho has a 6 mil option for 2011 and TO won't be back. The Titans, Vikings and Redskins will leap frog us if they win and Oakland loses. That's sort of expected for the Vikings actually. Dallas should go oline but will probably take Prince Amukamara.

Okay I've rambled on enough. What I'm saying is with some luck today we may have the 12th pick and get either Amukamara or Patrick Peterson but we're unlikely to get a DE or pass rusher unless we settle for a JJ Watt. There's also Julio Jones and Leshoure that can move up and help us out.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

We can expect a top guy to drop out of the top ten. DraftTek's big board has the following:

Andrew Luck
Nick Fairley
Prince Amukamara
Marcell Dareus
Da'Quan Bowers
Patrick Peterson
Mark Ingram
Cameron Jordan
Robert Quinn
AJ Green

I think there are many obstacles in our path to a DE or OLB in the first. Almost every team ahead of 1A will either be looking for Dline/pass rush help or a QB. A QB selection is often pressured by ownership. This year there are several QB prospects that have great measurables. Luck, Locker, Mallett, Newton, Ponder, Gabbert, Stanzi. I think Luck, Newton, Mallett and Gabbert will be 1st rounders.

QB:
Carolina
San Fran (New coach and GM)
Buffalo (They were looking last year)
Arizona
Seattle (Maybe)
Redskins

Dline:
Denver
Buffalo
Cleveland
Seattle
Redskins

The teams that probably won't take Dline or a QB are Dallas, Houston, Tennessee, and Cincinnati. Bengals should take Patrick Peterson but I think they take AJ Green because Ocho has a 6 mil option for 2011 and TO won't be back. The Titans, Vikings and Redskins will leap frog us if they win and Oakland loses. That's sort of expected for the Vikings actually. Dallas should go oline but will probably take Prince Amukamara.

Okay I've rambled on enough. What I'm saying is with some luck today we may have the 12th pick and get either Amukamara or Patrick Peterson but we're unlikely to get a DE or pass rusher unless we settle for a JJ Watt. There's also Julio Jones and Leshoure that can move up and help us out.

I absolutely would not be upset if we take WR Jones of Alabama with the Raiders pick.

However, I think we have a shot at Dareus.

 

[jays52]

Jays52, I value your opinion. Could you expand a little on why you think Dareus does not project as a 5 technique, but JJ Watt does?

Thanks

I think that we first need to define the role of the right end in this defense. Primarily, he will be playing head-up on the left tackle. He is responsible for the b and c gaps in the run game. In controlling these gaps, he must have the length to incline press the tackle, deny his drive, and eliminate the outside angle on flow-to run plays. He must be able to control the breastplate of the tackle, and deny the tackle access to his. This is an arm length thing. He must have the lateral agility to not get "hooked" by a blocker. He must have the burst to drive a blocker into the cutback lane on flow away situations. In the passing game he must have plus rush. What that means is while he is primarily a run defender, he is capable of generating enough burst or hand technique to beat a blocker. He will be going up against both guards and tackles, depending upon protection and blitzing. Against most tackles, length is of primary concern. Further, the head up on tackle alignment is in the middle of a lot of throwing lanes. Basically, anything aimed at the hashes out is going to pass through this window. Here is where length is critical as the rush of the 34 primarily comes from the backers. Holy crap what a play by McCourty. Sorry. As those backers vacate zones, receivers will fill in. The Ends will be in a situation where they need to get their hands in the throwing lanes as these hot reads tend to be frozen ropes.

When I look at Dareus, length is my primary issue. Length is such a critical component of what is required that if a guy isn't at least 6'4 with killer wingspan I kind of write him off. I think he is stout enough to 2-gap, but I think that anytime you evaluate a prospect you try to identify what role will maximize their skillset. He is at his best when penetrating and engaging the outside shoulder of the guard. Hell, I think he has enough burst to even play that 4i alignment. So I think that he will be at his best playing as a three technique in a 43 defense.

I think that Watt has the frame with plus athleticism. I don't think that he is an ideal fit for owning the left tackle and doubleteams. That said, considering how prevalent the screen/spread/slot hitch schemes are during run situations I think that his ability to move almost like a linebacker laterally will enable him to be a unique weapon at that right end position.

 

[Water Boy]

I think that Watt has the frame with plus athleticism. I don't think that he is an ideal fit for owning the left tackle and doubleteams. That said, considering how prevalent the screen/spread/slot hitch schemes are during run situations I think that his ability to move almost like a linebacker laterally will enable him to be a unique weapon at that right end position.

Thanks. I envision that he'd be used similar to how the Pats are using Eric Moore, primarily in passing situations.

 

[JoeShmoe]

Jay, you gotta post more often man, seriously:rocker:

 

[UkPatsFan12]

I know it's not a belichick pick but if available I like Mark ingram, I know our backs have had good seasons (great to see 'the law firm' go for 1000) but ingram is a powerhouse downhill running back and think he'd be a great addition to our backfield.

 

[MaineMan]

.................I think that Watt has the frame with plus athleticism. I don't think that he is an ideal fit for owning the left tackle and doubleteams. That said, considering how prevalent the screen/spread/slot hitch schemes are during run situations I think that his ability to move almost like a linebacker laterally will enable him to be a unique weapon at that right end position.

Invaluable clarification of the 3-4 DE role.

Agree about Watt having the physical tools, but it's clear to me now from the way he got rickrolled by TCU that he's very raw and in need of a lot of coaching.

BTW, the way Eric Moore has been playing seems perhaps to lessen the need for a pass-rushing OLB allowing us to focus more on acquiring another more "all-around" type.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I think that we first need to define the role of the right end in this defense. Primarily, he will be playing head-up on the left tackle. He is responsible for the b and c gaps in the run game. In controlling these gaps, he must have the length to incline press the tackle, deny his drive, and eliminate the outside angle on flow-to run plays. He must be able to control the breastplate of the tackle, and deny the tackle access to his. This is an arm length thing. He must have the lateral agility to not get "hooked" by a blocker. He must have the burst to drive a blocker into the cutback lane on flow away situations. In the passing game he must have plus rush. What that means is while he is primarily a run defender, he is capable of generating enough burst or hand technique to beat a blocker. He will be going up against both guards and tackles, depending upon protection and blitzing. Against most tackles, length is of primary concern. Further, the head up on tackle alignment is in the middle of a lot of throwing lanes. Basically, anything aimed at the hashes out is going to pass through this window. Here is where length is critical as the rush of the 34 primarily comes from the backers. Holy crap what a play by McCourty. Sorry. As those backers vacate zones, receivers will fill in. The Ends will be in a situation where they need to get their hands in the throwing lanes as these hot reads tend to be frozen ropes.

When I look at Dareus, length is my primary issue. Length is such a critical component of what is required that if a guy isn't at least 6'4 with killer wingspan I kind of write him off. I think he is stout enough to 2-gap, but I think that anytime you evaluate a prospect you try to identify what role will maximize their skillset. He is at his best when penetrating and engaging the outside shoulder of the guard. Hell, I think he has enough burst to even play that 4i alignment. So I think that he will be at his best playing as a three technique in a 43 defense.

I think that Watt has the frame with plus athleticism. I don't think that he is an ideal fit for owning the left tackle and doubleteams. That said, considering how prevalent the screen/spread/slot hitch schemes are during run situations I think that his ability to move almost like a linebacker laterally will enable him to be a unique weapon at that right end position.

Coming up in the BCS Championship, when you're not fainting with excitement over Fairley, ponder #88 DL Brandon Bair, Oregon, 6-6/272 for me ... he has 8 PD this season, really quick hands in the passing lane. I wonder if he could play a WillieMac-style OLB or if he could bulk up another 25 lbs of muscle and play DE for NE? Then again he might just be another kid who is maxed out. :bricks:

 

[Sciz]

Coming up in the BCS Championship, when you're not fainting with excitement over Fairley, ponder #88 DL Brandon Bair, Oregon, 6-6/272 for me ... he has 8 PD this season, really quick hands in the passing lane. I wonder if he could play a WillieMac-style OLB or if he could bulk up another 25 lbs of muscle and play DE for NE? Then again he might just be another kid who is maxed out. :bricks:

NFLDraftScout estimates him at a 4.98 40. Safe to say he'd have to play DE with that kind of speed. He's also 27 years old.

 

[serifyn]

Trade up any get the best 5-technique DE, or get pick Ryan Kerrigan and dump TBC.

then use our pick and get Stefen Wisniewski, trade the 2nd rounder for a bad teams first next year and a 3rd this year, use our 2nd on a OT prospect and trade all of the 3 rounders for 2nd rounders/+others if needed in 2012 and use the rest on longshots and prospects for in camp competition.

think how many roster spots will actually be available, this team has great depth right now at most positions, the only 2 spots i can see a significant improvement in would be 5TDL and OLB.

 

[Keyser Söze]

Quinton Carter :rocker:

Not first but later...is he entering?

 

[SirApropos]

Quinton Carter :rocker:

Not first but later...is he entering?

Quinton Carter is a 5th yr Senior so he will be going to the Draft. I like him in the 4th round if he is there and as an eventual replacement for Brandon Meriweater.

Solid FS.