Pats release McKenzie

[apple strudel]

Whining I just don't drink the koolaid anymore thats all. I want the Pats to be a contendor and I see it slipping away because of FO management and a lack of commitment to put the best team on the field by the owner.

Redskins fan spotted.

 

[Ring 6]

I didn't call them cheap but the facts are this and you can go back & google USA today & NFL salary cap you will see plainly in the last two years I believe the Pats were 23rd in 2009 total payroll and 30th in 2008 if we are 3rd wealthiest team in the NFL why are we spending like we are the Jacksonville Jags? We are damn lucky to have one of the top 5 qbs in the league because if we didn't we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I doubt your facts when you say it shows plainly and you believe......
But you need to understand how the NFL works.
Payroll is constrained by the cap. Let me give an example based on one player that can extrapolate over a team.
If Tom Brady signs a 5 year 100mill contract with a 40mill sb and 12 mill salary per year, he counts 20 mill on the cap each year but his payroll expense is
52,12,12,12,12
The first year the Pats would have a payroll that exceeds the cap number by 40 mill, then one that is 8 mill lower each of the next 4 years.
You cannot exceed the cap. So unless you are spending under the cap payroll expense is not a function of what you are spending on your roster its a function of how much pre-paid amortized signing bonus you have left plus dead money.
We know that the Patriots spent to the cap each season, less a few mill reserved for inseason acquisitions.
We also know there dead money # was not exceesive.
If your facts are correct, that means that the Patriots were at or near the top of the league in amortized signing bonus carried forward.
Teams can not be at the top of payroll rankings consistently because payroll does not equal cap limits.
So in other words, if your facts are correct, that only means that they spent so much in previous years, they werent allowed to in those years.

 

[Pats726]

Whining I just don't drink the koolaid anymore thats all. I want the Pats to be a contendor and I see it slipping away because of FO management and a lack of commitment to put the best team on the field by the owner.

you know what....all the whiners and fair weather fans need not slip away...THEY CAN RUN AWAY!!!! Good riddance!!!!
Go enjoy the Lions..the Browns or even the Jets..and PLEASE take the Cheesehead windbag with you!! PLEASE!!! What I see is a bunch of spoiled fans who don't know their backsides from a hole in the ground try TELL the team what to do when they are CLUELESS and have the football acumen of a snail....

 

[Off The Grid]

That is a disputed point.

My understanding since the day of the trade has been that the offer was a 2010 #1 and BB requested it to be the 2011, which was a genius move.

That's hard to believe, though I can see a couple of reasons why it might actually be true.

It's understood that the given Premium to move up one year is about one Round: A 2nd Rounder requires a 1st, more or less. Within the 1st Round, it becomes somewhat more complicated.

Hence, if the Raiders were willing to give up a 2010 1st Rounder for Seymour, and Coach Bill wanted, in order to avoid Salary Cap Hell, to opt for a 2011 pick that he probably had very good reason to expect would be protected by an anticipated implementation of a Rookie Salary Cap...then it stands to reason that he would've ~ at least under normal circumstances ~ demanded a RICH Premium to move back one year from what Al was ostensibly willing to give him: Perhaps as much as a 2010 2nd Rounder, but certainly at least a 3rd.

Except for this: The implementation of that Rookie Salary Cap would, in fact, change the Market Value of the Top 5 2011 picks dramatically.

And, in fact, considering that the Market Value of the Top 5, under the current CBA, is arguably nonexistent ~ perhaps even negative ~ due to their crippling effects on the Salary Cap ~ forced cuts, lack of depth, reduced $ to spend on retaining quality Starters + signing Free Agents ~ it can be argued ~ considering Oakland's recently amazing reliability in having awful years and picking very high ~ that swapping Oakland's 2010 #1 for their 2011 #1...is a Push.

***

Of course, I think that that trade was horrifying, anyway: If you're in the business of competing for World Championships, you simply don't trade a Defensive End of Seymour's caliber ~ even his 2009 caliber ~ unless you just drafted Richard Dent.

 

[reflexblue]

I think alot of this goes back to the owner they haven't spent any money on FA's in the last few years adding good players while developing your young guys. Instead we trade Seymore for a 2011 1st instead of a 2010 1st which would have been a top ten pick where you can get a top defensive player, but no we take the 2011 because there will probably be a new CBA and a rookie salary cap are you freakin kidding me. You didn't want to sign Samuel why because he didn't intercept a pass in the Superbowl! So you spend all this money and effort to replace him they should have signed the guy he is a PLAYMAKER. They hide behind the cap and Felger has continuously shown that its a bunch of baloney. The Jets, Redskins and numerous other teams have shown its a bunch of crap.

Please, tell me/us more. I can't wait to hear what you have to say. Finally someone who knows what their talking about.

 

[Off The Grid]

I'd have to say that that's a SPOT ON assessment of Brarrell's stupefying post!!

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

They hide behind the cap and Felger has continuously shown that its a bunch of baloney. The Jets, Redskins and numerous other teams have shown its a bunch of crap.

Felger? Fleger you say? He is the single most unreliable source of football information in the media. He is so consistently wrong that I do very well expecting the opposite of what he predicts. His Inquisitional interviews with Jonathan Kraft are so painful and misguided that I cannot bear to listen to them.

The Skins have the most obnoxious, reprehensible, arrogant, and stupid owner in professional sports. He thinks he is playing fantasy football and spent like a sailor on liberty; the results speak for themselves.

Personally I think that the Krafts put money ahead of the health of the team when they multi-purposed the stadium and had to rip up the grass but that is not, ahem, a majority opinion. Freaking Felger should trying skewing the ownership on that point but he will not...making me think it is a legit point.

 

[Synovia]

just another proof that the draft and scouting dept are lacking in something

Yeah, a kid blowing his knee out in his first week of practice and never making it back says a lot about scouting.

 

[Synovia]

The Skins have the most obnoxious, reprehensible, arrogant, and stupid owner in professional sports. He thinks he is playing fantasy football and spent like a sailor on liberty; the results speak for themselves.

While I don't like Dan Snyder one bit, the idea that he is stupid is ridiculous. And yes, the results do speak for themselves: his franchise makes him more money than any other football franchise makes its owner.

Different goals.

 

[Leave No Doubt]

If BB is trying to keep people guessing his roster strategy, I think it's working.

He's a master at juggling the roster

 

[Pats726]

I doubt your facts when you say it shows plainly and you believe......
But you need to understand how the NFL works.
Payroll is constrained by the cap. Let me give an example based on one player that can extrapolate over a team.
If Tom Brady signs a 5 year 100mill contract with a 40mill sb and 12 mill salary per year, he counts 20 mill on the cap each year but his payroll expense is
52,12,12,12,12
The first year the Pats would have a payroll that exceeds the cap number by 40 mill, then one that is 8 mill lower each of the next 4 years.
You cannot exceed the cap. So unless you are spending under the cap payroll expense is not a function of what you are spending on your roster its a function of how much pre-paid amortized signing bonus you have left plus dead money.
We know that the Patriots spent to the cap each season, less a few mill reserved for inseason acquisitions.
We also know there dead money # was not exceesive.
If your facts are correct, that means that the Patriots were at or near the top of the league in amortized signing bonus carried forward.
Teams can not be at the top of payroll rankings consistently because payroll does not equal cap limits.
So in other words, if your facts are correct, that only means that they spent so much in previous years, they werent allowed to in those years.

A GREAT explanation..of what CAP is and what payroll is and HOW looking at one can be misleading...The LEAGUE has gone by the cap...THAT HAS BEEN the measuring stick..that has been the way for years...and SALARY CAP = Payroll WILL NEVER BE TRUE!!!! They are two different things!! he's talking about one thing...complaining about the other..like the embarrassing Cheesehead talking to Jonathon Kraft..He and facts have a hard time balancing...Just does NOT happen. To me he's As bad or worse than Borges..and to me even MORE evil.

 

[Uncle Rico]

He's a master at juggling the roster

ExACTly!

10ch

 

[FCB02062]

Anyone got a flamethrower?

Trust me, not a flamethrower, just a pissed off season ticket holder of 18 years (223 in the old stadium, 311 now). Face it this team only has the best, or one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL for 3 or 4 more years at his best. And to see Krafty surround him with mediocre talent is mind numbing.
Also, we need to start questioning Belichick's drafting - after all, this IS a guy who picked Touchdown Tommy Vardell, a FULLBACK, with the NINTH pick in 1992...ouch... I certainly hope McCourty, Wilhite, Tate, et al., become first line NFLers, but I can't get the memories of Chad Jackson, Brock Williams, Dave Thomas, Guss Scott, etc. and all the other early round busts Belichick has authored with the Pats....

 

[Deus Irae]

Trust me, not a flamethrower, just a pissed off season ticket holder of 18 years (223 in the old stadium, 311 now). Face it this team only has the best, or one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL for 3 or 4 more years at his best. And to see Krafty surround him with mediocre talent is mind numbing.
Also, we need to start questioning Belichick's drafting - after all, this IS a guy who picked Touchdown Tommy Vardell, a FULLBACK, with the NINTH pick in 1992...ouch... I certainly hope McCourty, Wilhite, Tate, et al., become first line NFLers, but I can't get the memories of Chad Jackson, Brock Williams, Dave Thomas, Guss Scott, etc. and all the other early round busts Belichick has authored with the Pats....

Could you please list all the teams that haven't had an early round bust in the past, say, 5 years?

 

[PatsChamp88]

Could you please list all the teams that haven't had an early round bust in the past, say, 5 years?

Raiders...

 

[Ring 6]

Trust me, not a flamethrower, just a pissed off season ticket holder of 18 years (223 in the old stadium, 311 now). Face it this team only has the best, or one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL for 3 or 4 more years at his best. And to see Krafty surround him with mediocre talent is mind numbing.
Also, we need to start questioning Belichick's drafting - after all, this IS a guy who picked Touchdown Tommy Vardell, a FULLBACK, with the NINTH pick in 1992...ouch... I certainly hope McCourty, Wilhite, Tate, et al., become first line NFLers, but I can't get the memories of Chad Jackson, Brock Williams, Dave Thomas, Guss Scott, etc. and all the other early round busts Belichick has authored with the Pats....

What are you pissed off about?
We just concluded a decade as the most successful team of that decade, and one of the top 3 most successful of any decade.
If you are a season ticket holder for 18 years how can you possiubly be pissed off at the results BB has brought to this franchise?
When you bought your season tickets in 1992 did you really expect 3 Lombardis, 4 trips to the SB, 14 playoff wins, 5 trips to the AFCC, and the most wins in one decade?Ever? Come on. Either you arent really a fan or you have seriously lost your way.

 

[Dragda]

If you're not DaBruinz :snob: then you're going down the same road as he is, which leads to a ban. You might want to cut back on the constant personal attacks and stick more with sensible debate.

So how do you ignore someone? I've seen the setting somewhere...

 

[Deus Irae]

Quick check of other top teams, just glancing through and looking for 1 bust in the early rounds:

Colts - Ugoh, 2007
Steelers - Sweed, 2008
Chargers - Davis, 2007
Giants - Moss, 2006
Saints - Alleman, 2007

Those aren't the only busts for those teams, but it does show that even the teams that have been winning the most have missed on high picks.

 

[DaBruinz]

Trust me, not a flamethrower, just a pissed off season ticket holder of 18 years (223 in the old stadium, 311 now). Face it this team only has the best, or one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL for 3 or 4 more years at his best. And to see Krafty surround him with mediocre talent is mind numbing.
Also, we need to start questioning Belichick's drafting - after all, this IS a guy who picked Touchdown Tommy Vardell, a FULLBACK, with the NINTH pick in 1992...ouch... I certainly hope McCourty, Wilhite, Tate, et al., become first line NFLers, but I can't get the memories of Chad Jackson, Brock Williams, Dave Thomas, Guss Scott, etc. and all the other early round busts Belichick has authored with the Pats....

I don't care how long you've been a season ticket holder. That doesn't mean a damn thing in terms of your knowledge of the game or your knowledge of Belichick both with the Browns and with the Pats.

BB wasn't the GM in Cleveland. He had a say, but not the final say in who was drafted. And, if you actually looked at his record there, he consistently improved that team until the final year when, after starting the season 3-1, it was announced that the Browns were moving to Baltimore. BB was made the sacrificial lamb by the owner, Art Modell.

Brock Williams, Guss Scott, and Tyrone McKenzie suffered major injuries. Are you honestly saying that Belichick should be clairvoyant and know that they were going to suffer those injuries??

David Thomas can hardly be considered a bust. He was a productive special teams player and someone who also missed a year because of an injury.

It sounds to me that you are simply an irrational person who's expectations have little or no foundation in reality.

 

[Frezo]

2004 - Wilfork, Watson. Best NT in the game and a solid TE. Injuries killed the safeties' careers

2005 - Mankins, Hobbs, Kaczur, Sanders, Cassel. A tremendous draft

2006 - Maroney, Thomas, Gostkowski, O'Callaghan, Smith, Andrews. Better than it's given credit for

2007 - Meriweather, Welker, Moss. Best 2007 draft day of any team in the NFL

2008 - Mayo, Wheatley, Wilhite, Slater. DPOY, injured player, dime CB and a special teams ace. Not great, but Wheatley has a chance to improve the outlook

2009 - Chung, Brace, Butler, Vollmer, Tate, McKenzie, Ingram, Pryor, Edelman, Richard. Looking as if it might turn out to have been the best 2009 draft day of any NFL team

If Moss and Welker can be included then where is Burgess? Where is that failed CB that was traded for a pick? (his name escapes me) Any players traded for a pic(s) should be included.