OT: Jets have a 1 year window

[Ring 6]

What does the cap have to do with a coach who leaves for college fb after 1 yr? What did the cap have to do with the firing of a brain dead herm or firing of mangini after the collapse? The answer is it had nothing to do with it. Sometimes coaches just get fired bc there inept. You don't have to have cap problems if u have a lot of 1 yr deals. You let guys walk n resign guys you deem as the core. The pats did the same thing as described this decade, you have cap hell if u have a ton of guaranteed deals which we don't.

Lack of success is usually related to poor cap management. Edwards and Mangini both watched their talent deteriorate during their tenure.

Why are you arguing that having to release players isnt 'cap hell'? That is semantics, the point was that the Jets have a 1 year window with this team. If you cannot afford to resign your players, you have a 1 year window whether you call it cap hell of widget bling.

 

[Ring 6]

Average run block, easily top 5 in pass protection. Sounds elite to me

Thats just not in touch with reality.

 

[Rexorcism]

Thats just not in touch with reality.

This NY times article has him as the 6th best in the league and Light at 8. The writer based his list on film study all 32 teams for the 2009 season.

Like it or not Brick has become one of the top LTs in the league, as he should be being picked 4th overall.

Best Left Tackles in the N.F.L: The Top 10 List - The Fifth Down Blog - NYTimes.com

 

[Ring 6]

This NY times article has him as the 6th best in the league and Light at 8. The writer based his list on film study all 32 teams for the 2009 season.

Like it or not Brick has become one of the top LTs in the league, as he should be being picked 4th overall.

Best Left Tackles in the N.F.L: The Top 10 List - The Fifth Down Blog - NYTimes.com

Finding one article that ranks him highly is far from proving your point.
I'll stick by the averageness that i see on the field

 

[Metaphors]

Holmes was 7th in the league in yards with a first down pecentage only rivaling V Jax and was tied for 2nd best in plays of over 20 yards or more. Holmes had more yards than most people on that list so I think its more than reasonable.

As for Harris, please tell me how he isn't one of the top ILB in the game today and I will gladly stop.

Remember, you went with stats...

All your stats for Holmes show is that he runs mostly medium routes for a relatively pass-happy team. An elite deep threat would have lots of 40+ receptions and TDs. An average game for Holmes with a top (though boneheaded) QB:

5 catches (4 for 1st downs) for 78 yards with a TD every 3rd game

Absolutely nothing wrong with that. The 1st downs and yards are solid but not far from a boatload of other receivers. The catches are nothing special and the TDs are actually pretty poor. Holmes is a fine receiver but hardly elite. Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, Wayne, Moss, Marshall, Welker are there with a handful of others knocking on the door.

As for Harris, I have never accepted tackle stats since research showed Colts players with more cumulative tackles than there were defensive plays. So is Harris a solid tackler. Yep. Better than Willis? Or Beason? Or Dansby? Or a handful of others including London Frickin Fletcher? Nope. Defending the pass? Not even close to elite. Blitzing? That is at least possible since I have a hard time distinguishing player from scheme in this respect. Again, nothing wrong with Harris and would love to see him next to Mayo. Just not elite.

 

[Metaphors]

This NY times article has him as the 6th best in the league and Light at 8. The writer based his list on film study all 32 teams for the 2009 season.

Like it or not Brick has become one of the top LTs in the league, as he should be being picked 4th overall.

Best Left Tackles in the N.F.L: The Top 10 List - The Fifth Down Blog - NYTimes.com

He was the lowest ranked Jets lineman on this NEW YORK SPORTSWRITER'S list. So if this list is to be taken as a serious scouting effort (read the disclaimer first), then the Jets line is made up of 5 elite players. Sanchez must suck at a biblical level to get sacked 30 times on only 393 attempts...by far the lowest number of dropbacks in the league. What about the 4.5 ypc rushing? The Bills got 4.4 and yet they don't seem to get the "elite" tag stuck to their line very often.

 

[Rexorcism]

He was the lowest ranked Jets lineman on this NEW YORK SPORTSWRITER'S list. So if this list is to be taken as a serious scouting effort (read the disclaimer first), then the Jets line is made up of 5 elite players. Sanchez must suck at a biblical level to get sacked 30 times on only 393 attempts...by far the lowest number of dropbacks in the league. What about the 4.5 ypc rushing? The Bills got 4.4 and yet they don't seem to get the "elite" tag stuck to their line very often.

To be fair it isn't like the times is some local paper, its a national paper and the home town favoritism isn't too bad. I would find another article but it was all I could dig up on short notice.

Unlike yourself, I am not a football expert and I leave the scouting to the people who know what they are talking about. Many have said the Jets have one of if not the best lines in the league so if you have issue with that take it up with them.

I haven't seen anything or heard anything that knocked Bricks play last season. In fact all I have heard was praise about how he has finally lived up to his billing. If you think otherwise please plead you're case. I have no problem being proved wrong but, it's taking anonymous posters at their word I have issues with.

 

[Deus Irae]

So what you are saying is I shouldn't rate recievers according to stats and I should just trust your well trained football eye? Yeah ok...

I don't know what kind of fools would ever want Harris gone he has been a beast since day 1 of his NFL career.

Oh and by the way if the rest of the league has weak ILB play than that still makes Harris elite no?

Its been fun but when you support your arguments with your opinion and act like its concrete evidence then there is really no use in wasting my time.

1.) Harris has not been a "beast" since day 1 of his NFL career. Oh, wait... Perhaps you should show me the "beast" stat, since I can't just trust your well trained eye.....

2.) Being better than a list of scrubs doesn't make one elite. It makes one better than a list of scrubs.

3.) Get back to me when evaluations of players with words such as "elite" and "beast" are facts, and not opinions, since you claim that's what you're all about.



Another Jets fan to embarrass Gunnails. That poor guy must feel like Joe Bauers every time he attends a Jets home game.

 

[K-Ro 25]

Jeez as much as you guys rag on harris as average or what not u must hate jerod mayo. As a rookie he lit it up with 5.5 sacks and a tkl machine, yr 2 he was hurt from training camp day 1 and that hindered hit a lot. Rejuvenated he puts up 5 sacks again in yr 3. If 10 combined in 2 of the 3 yrs in the Nfl isn't excellent for an ILB then what is?

 

[Deus Irae]

Jeez as much as you guys rag on harris as average or what not u must hate jerod mayo. As a rookie he lit it up with 5.5 sacks and a tkl machine, yr 2 he was hurt from training camp day 1 and that hindered hit a lot. Rejuvenated he puts up 5 sacks again in yr 3. If 10 combined in 2 of the 3 yrs in the Nfl isn't excellent for an ILB then what is?

If numbers were all that mattered, Dan Marino would be considered the greatest QB of all time. According to Profootballreference.com, Mayo found a way to amass 70 tackles in 13 games this season (5.38 per game) despite his injury, while Harris had just 80 tackles in 16 games (5.06 per game). So, Mayo must have been better than Harris even this season, right?

 

[Gunnails]

==================================================

I am sure you say this tongue in cheek.

For the record Rexorism is posting good stuff IMHO, I hope he sticks around.

K-Ro is an even more vet poster of PF.com that I am proud to share a love of the Jets with, K-Ro brings it, presents his case and defends it while representing himself honorably.

 

[Rexorcism]

If numbers were all that mattered, Dan Marino would be considered the greatest QB of all time. According to Profootballreference.com, Mayo found a way to amass 70 tackles in 13 games this season (5.38 per game) despite his injury, while Harris had just 80 tackles in 16 games (5.06 per game). So, Mayo must have been better than Harris even this season, right?

Well since last season everyone thought Mayo was one of the elite ILB in the game it would make sense he compares well to Harris.

And by the way the definition of elite is "The best or most skilled members of a group". So if the rest of the group sucks as you say then yes he is elite.

Dan Marino is still one of the best of all time...

 

[Metaphors]

To be fair it isn't like the times is some local paper, its a national paper and the home town favoritism isn't too bad.

Woody = #1 RT
Moore = #4 RG

No reasonable person outside of the NY metro area would rank them this way.

 

[Deus Irae]

I am sure you say this tongue in cheek.

For the record Rexorism is posting good stuff IMHO, I hope he sticks around.

Talking about evaluating receivers only by the numbers, and then using words like "elite" and "beast" while complaining

but when you support your arguments with your opinion and act like its concrete evidence then there is really no use in wasting my time.

Is not posting good stuff IMO. We'll have to disagree, I guess. While I'm a definite believer in statistical analysis, I'm also one of those people who think Randy Moss would have higher numbers if defenses didn't design themselves to shut him down, and take such things as that into account.

K-Ro is an even more vet poster of PF.com that I am proud to share a love of the Jets with, K-Ro brings it, presents his case and defends it while representing himself honorably.

K-Ro is a Jets homer on a Patriots board. That's fine, but when you start calling D'Bust an elite LT, and phrasing it with

I anxiously await an uninfomed pats fan calling brick a bust

you're going to get called on it. As I opined earlier, he's only the third or fourth best LT in the AFCE, and that doesn't start looking at guys like Ryan Clady, Joe Thomas, Jared Gaither, et al...

 

[K-Ro 25]

Ok then from what I have seen, I see an ilb who is an excellent blitzer, as sure a tackler as you will find in the nfl yes the entire league, he does a good job at disengaging blocks at the LOS, and can lay the wood. He struggles at times in coverage vs te's and when he doesn't blitz he is a much better run defender then pass defender. He is elite bc he has done all this in yr 3. He is a guy who will be a main stay as a pro bowl lb and is borderline top 5 in the sport ilb

If numbers were all that mattered, Dan Marino would be considered the greatest QB of all time. According to Profootballreference.com, Mayo found a way to amass 70 tackles in 13 games this season (5.38 per game) despite his injury, while Harris had just 80 tackles in 16 games (5.06 per game). So, Mayo must have been better than Harris even this season, right?

 

[Metaphors]

Well since last season everyone thought Mayo was one of the elite ILB in the game it would make sense he compares well to Harris.

Great point and in fact Mayo does compare well to Harris at this point...and neither are elite. Who do I rate as elite on the Pats? Only 4...Brady, Moss, Welker and Wilfork. Mankins should be there but frustratingly he isn't.

So what do these players (Brady, Moss, Welker, Wilfork, Revis and Mangold) have in common? Opponents must account for them in the gameplan. Every week. Every opponent. That is elite.

 

[K-Ro 25]

Your right, my opinions are delusional on brick even tho aaron schobel a de who once was elite mirrored those same sentiments. How dare I even consider brick as a decent LT

Talking about evaluating receivers only by the numbers, and then using words like "elite" and "beast" while complaining



Is not posting good stuff IMO. We'll have to disagree, I guess. While I'm a definite believer in statistical analysis, I'm also one of those people who think Randy Moss would have higher numbers if defenses didn't design themselves to shut him down, and take such things as that into account.



K-Ro is a Jets homer on a Patriots board. That's fine, but when you start calling D'Bust an elite LT, and phrasing it with



you're going to get called on it. As I opined earlier, he's only the third or fourth best LT in the AFCE, and that doesn't start looking at guys like Ryan Clady, Joe Thomas, Jared Gaither, et al...

 

[K-Ro 25]

Ok I feel our issue derives from the original criteria. Harris and mayo may not be elite lbs but are really good when healthy. Mankins I thought is elite, why frustratingly not?

Great point and in fact Mayo does compare well to Harris at this point...and neither are elite. Who do I rate as elite on the Pats? Only 4...Brady, Moss, Welker and Wilfork. Mankins should be there but frustratingly he isn't.

So what do these players (Brady, Moss, Welker, Wilfork, Revis and Mangold) have in common? Opponents must account for them in the gameplan. Every week. Every opponent. That is elite.

 

[Deus Irae]

Your right, my opinions are delusional on brick even tho aaron schobel a de who once was elite mirrored those same sentiments. How dare I even consider brick as a decent LT

Good point. Players never:

Talk up opponents.
Have players where they have success against or failures against that are outside the norm.


No scrub ever got a hit against Koufax, and Reggie White was never blocked. :bricks:

 

[Gunnails]

I am just saying they are good posters and good for the board.

I am not saying they speak the gospel or that you should agree with them.

They are pure football, thats all they post, got to love that.