Maroney's benching

[CrazyDave]

Do you expect to be taken seriously?

Yes, I do.
Do you?

 

[VJCPatriot]

Sort of shocked to see there isn't a single thread on this, considering the fixation the board has had on Maroney over the years. (Maybe I'm missing it? Apologies if yes.)

Anyway, what does everyone think? Seems to me this fumbling problem is a relatively new one, and sitting him down for the game after yesterday's drop at the goal line was a good idea. Combined with lategate, also seems Belichick is putting down the hammer a bit more now, which is all to the good. I think we see Maroney running very well in the playoffs, and holding on to the ball, too.

He'll get a chance to redeem himself. But BB was definitely sending a message to Maroney as well as the entire team. PROTECT the football. The team with the fewest turnovers usually wins the game, this is especially true in the playoffs. No screwups will be allowed. I think the message was heard loud and clear.

Well that's certainly your right. But you'd be wrong.

I can't even believe there are still people out there who think Morris might be/is better than Maroney. Boggles the mind.

Maybe that's because the numbers support what our eyes have been telling us all along? That Morris is the better and more consistent RB when HEALTHY? The main problem has been that Morris is just as injury prone as Maroney if not more. However when he's been in, he has outproduced Maroney on a per carry basis over the last 3 years.

Numbers provided courtesy of footballreference.com:

Morris

Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS Att Yds TD Lng Y/A Y/G A/G Rec Yds Y/R TD Lng R/G Y/G YScm RRTD Fmb AV 
2007 30 NWE 34 6 2 85 384 3 49 4.5 64.0 14.2 6 35 5.8 0 18 1.0 5.8 419 3 0 4 
2008 31 NWE 34 13 7 156 727 7 35 4.7 55.9 12.0 17 161 9.5 0 42 1.3 12.4 888 7 1 8 
2009 32 NWE 34 10  66 310 2 55 4.7 31.0 6.6 16 167 10.4 0 35 1.6 16.7 477 2 2

Maroney

Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS Att Yds TD Lng Y/A Y/G A/G Rec Yds Y/R TD Lng R/G Y/G YScm RRTD Fmb AV 
2007 22 NWE 39 13 6 185 835 6 59 4.5 64.2 14.2 4 116 29.0 0 43 0.3 8.9 951 6 0 10 
2008 23 NWE 39 3 3 28 93 0 17 3.3 31.0 9.3        93 0 0 1 
2009 24 NWE 39 15  194 757 9 45 3.9 50.5 12.9 14 99 7.1 0 17 0.9 6.6 856 9 4

Now I'll admit that Maroney has been running better as of late, but his ball security has also been a lot worse as of late. The aforementioned 4 fumbles, most of which were in the redzone.
This still doesn't change the facts though. The past tjree seasons Maroney has averaged 4.5 ypc, 3.3 ypc and 3.9 ypc respectively. Morris has averaged 4.5 ypc, 4.7 yps and 4.7 ypc respectively.
Objectively speaking, Morris has outperformed Maroney on a per carry basis. Subjectively speaking, Morris doesn't dance as much as Maroney and is a better North-South move the chains runner.
Maroney has shown strides this season so I'll give him a break. But I don't see him as the best RB on this team yet, not by a long shot.

 

[Sicilian]

Exactly.

The only reason Dillon had such a great season was because there was virtually no one else and Belichick went against his principles (Belichick has only had 2 1,000 yard runners in his entire head coaching career).

When Dillon's numbers plummeted (as well as YPC) and was nagged by injuries, you know Belichick had wished he hadn't worked Dillon so much in 2004.

Well, to be technical, I highly doubt he wished he HADN'T, because it helped them win a Super Bowl. He might have wished he hadn't HAD to, but given the circumstances I think you make that trade.

 

[CrazyDave]

Do you expect to be taken seriously?

Did'nt we have our best rushing game of the year without him?
How many rushing yards yesterday? Maroney played only 1 series, right?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Well, to be technical, I highly doubt he wished he HADN'T, because it helped them win a Super Bowl. He might have wished he hadn't HAD to, but given the circumstances I think you make that trade.

BB is still happy he made the trade. He won a SB for goodness sakes b/c of that trade.

I will be my bottom dollar that is NOT happy about giving him the extension after the season and the ensuing cap ramifications that were pursuant to the deal.

 

[Garbanza]

I'd rather see Maroney, since he's our best RB.

Maroney HAS been running better as of late. Dare I say well. But holy hell, I do not trust him in short yardage situations. I say play him...but if the Pats are in the redzone, I don't want him on the field.

 

[emoney_33]

Give me a break. You know damn well why Maroney was pulled.

No actually I don't, and I also don't know if the game were closer would he have been put back in the 2nd half. But yea, you keep believing you know everything.

4 fumbles over 252 carries is acceptable. 4 fumbles in a 116 carry stretch with 3 of them in the red zone and the 4th at the NYJ 34 is not.

Maybe you weren't following the conversation, you quoted my response to you saying he has put in efforts the last FEW weeks but that those efforts weren't enough. In the last FEW weeks he fumbled once in 67 carries. (67*4 = 268 btw).

I'm pretty sure you can find a 3-4 fumble stretch for ANY RB, as I have already shown 4 fumble stretches in less carries for Peterson THIS YEAR, IN THE EXACT SAME WEEKS. However just because a RB has a stretch like that (and ALL do) doesn't mean that it was or will continue to be a problem.

Tomlinson had a streak in 2004 of 4 fumbles in 7 games (~140 carries), should the Chargers have been worried and started giving the rock to someone else then? Hey it was a trend ya know

I've acknowledged in a latter thread Maroney's history of solid ball security. No matter how you slice it, 4 fumbles in 116 carries brings into question his ability to hang onto the football moving forward.

No it does not really bring into question his ability to hang onto the football. If it continues longterm, then that's a different story. Please stop trying to diffuse the fact that we are really talking about 3 games in November here (in which he fumbled once in each). The last fumble is meaningless in your discussion without the context of those 3.

Yep, BB doesn't care about who is playing well lately either. Give me a break with that.

What does that have to do with anything? When Brady throws 3-4 INT in a game, I'm sure he goes back and works on things and tries to fix whatever went wrong. But I am also sure you aren't worried about Brady's "tendency" to throw INTs after those games. BB caring and players working on things is not what this discussion is about. I will reiterate once again, I am NOT worried about Maroney's ball security going forward. Obviously that could change, just like if Brady started throwing 25 int seasons I'd get worried, but I'm not here worried after a 3 game stretch that Brady doesn't play his best.

116 carries is 1/2 a season's worth of carries for most feature RBs and is certainly a quality sample size. You are going way overboard on this contrarian viewpoint of yours in not admitting Maroney is having ball security issues....

There is no "contrarian viewpoint" nor is there anything to "admit". The historical evidence on Maroney supports the idea that he is good with ball security. A string of 3 games is not going to change that, nor should it for any RB.

Once again you develop a bias for a certain player and then nitpick and try to claim a "trend" that you see is worrisome. It wasn't a trend nor was it worrisome when you tried it for Moss' 3 game dip, and it's the same crap here. You zoom in on that graph all you want, but your argument doesn't hold water when that graph is put into the correct context with all the evidence.

Different set of circumstances and players. For the record, Peterson does put the ball on the ground quite a bit, but because he is the cornerstone of their offense, a dynamic player and the team doesn't have anyone else like him who can produce at his level, that is why the team lives with his fumbles. Maroney is a part on this team and with other RBs on the roster that can produce, there are options.

Would you or would you not give Adrian Peterson the bulk of the carries if he were on the Patriots today? Even with Maroney, Taylor and Morris putting the rock on the ground less frequently, would you play any of them more frequently?

Last time I checked 67 does not equal 116.

You're right, 67 is almost twice as BAD. But yea Peterson was the wrong guy to use here as he actually does put the ball on the ground too frequently.

Who would you rather have? Chris Johnson, Stephen Jackson or Peterson? Hint: guess who fumbles the most.

Chris Johnson is pretty damn awesome all the way around

Who would you rather have? Peterson, Maroney or Taylor?

We differ.

We differ in the sense that you seemingly like knee-jerk reactions of small current samples rather than using all historical evidence.

 

[spacecrime]

Nice reasoned response with facts and data to support your position, however it is akin to an astronomer trying to explain the planets' orbits to an astrologer. Perception is all that counts, and anyone can "see" that sometimes Mars touches Jupiter, and Maroney sucks.

No actually I don't, and I also don't know if the game were closer would he have been put back in the 2nd half. But yea, you keep believing you know everything.

Maybe you weren't following the conversation, you quoted my response to you saying he has put in efforts the last FEW weeks but that those efforts weren't enough. In the last FEW weeks he fumbled once in 67 carries. (67*4 = 268 btw).

I'm pretty sure you can find a 3-4 fumble stretch for ANY RB, as I have already shown 4 fumble stretches in less carries for Peterson THIS YEAR, IN THE EXACT SAME WEEKS. However just because a RB has a stretch like that (and ALL do) doesn't mean that it was or will continue to be a problem.

Tomlinson had a streak in 2004 of 4 fumbles in 7 games (~140 carries), should the Chargers have been worried and started giving the rock to someone else then? Hey it was a trend ya know




No it does not really bring into question his ability to hang onto the football. If it continues longterm, then that's a different story. Please stop trying to diffuse the fact that we are really talking about 3 games in November here (in which he fumbled once in each). The last fumble is meaningless in your discussion without the context of those 3.




What does that have to do with anything? When Brady throws 3-4 INT in a game, I'm sure he goes back and works on things and tries to fix whatever went wrong. But I am also sure you aren't worried about Brady's "tendency" to throw INTs after those games. BB caring and players working on things is not what this discussion is about. I will reiterate once again, I am NOT worried about Maroney's ball security going forward. Obviously that could change, just like if Brady started throwing 25 int seasons I'd get worried, but I'm not here worried after a 3 game stretch that Brady doesn't play his best.



There is no "contrarian viewpoint" nor is there anything to "admit". The historical evidence on Maroney supports the idea that he is good with ball security. A string of 3 games is not going to change that, nor should it for any RB.

Once again you develop a bias for a certain player and then nitpick and try to claim a "trend" that you see is worrisome. It wasn't a trend nor was it worrisome when you tried it for Moss' 3 game dip, and it's the same crap here. You zoom in on that graph all you want, but your argument doesn't hold water when that graph is put into the correct context with all the evidence.




Would you or would you not give Adrian Peterson the bulk of the carries if he were on the Patriots today? Even with Maroney, Taylor and Morris putting the rock on the ground less frequently, would you play any of them more frequently?




You're right, 67 is almost twice as BAD. But yea Peterson was the wrong guy to use here as he actually does put the ball on the ground too frequently.




Chris Johnson is pretty damn awesome all the way around

Who would you rather have? Peterson, Maroney or Taylor?




We differ in the sense that you seemingly like knee-jerk reactions of small current samples rather than using all historical evidence.

 

[emoney_33]

He'll get a chance to redeem himself. But BB was definitely sending a message to Maroney as well as the entire team. PROTECT the football. The team with the fewest turnovers usually wins the game, this is especially true in the playoffs. No screwups will be allowed. I think the message was heard loud and clear.

It's possible that Maroney got benched precisely for that reason. It's also possible that he wasn't brought back in because the game was in hand and he's better off getting some rest as he's been the 'workhorse' the 2nd half of the season.

Maybe that's because the numbers support what our eyes have been telling us all along? That Morris is the better and more consistent RB when HEALTHY? The main problem has been that Morris is just as injury prone as Maroney if not more.

You will continue to be wrong...

Now I'll admit that Maroney has been running better as of late, but his ball security has also been a lot worse as of late. The aforementioned 4 fumbles, most of which were in the redzone.
This still doesn't change the facts though. The past tjree seasons Maroney has averaged 4.5 ypc, 3.3 ypc and 3.9 ypc respectively. Morris has averaged 4.5 ypc, 4.7 yps and 4.7 ypc respectively.
Objectively speaking, Morris has outperformed Maroney on a per carry basis. Subjectively speaking, Morris doesn't dance as much as Maroney and is a better North-South move the chains runner.
Maroney has shown strides this season so I'll give him a break. But I don't see him as the best RB on this team yet, not by a long shot.

In 2007 Sammy only got 85 carries before injured. Maroney had 100 more carries that year so his 4.5 holds a little more weight that year. He also had a fantastic performance in the playoffs. In 2008, Maroney broke his shoulder early and ended with 28 carries. You really can't try to use these numbers in your argument. In 2009, Morris has a total of 66 carries and only missed 4 games. His 55 yard run skews his average, without it he has a 3.9 YPC - so one run adds almost a full YPC to his averages, that's a huge skew.

The splits based on how many on the defensive line:

Att / Yards - YPC

Morris
<3: 4 / 31 - 7.8
<4: 21 / 84 - 4.0
4: 28/100 - 3.6

Maroney
<3: 2 / 12 - 6.0
<4: 38/210 - 5.5
4: 134/483 - 3.6

Go back to the 4 on the line numbers. Take away each RB's best run (both had a long of 17) and you get Morris with 3.0 YPC and Maroney with 3.5 YPC.

You can argue as much as you want, but Morris is just flat out NOT a better running back than Maroney.

 

[patriots3680]

Every other week the same people that bash Maroney praise him when he puts a good game together. I mainly try to avoid this topic because the flip-flopping on him is ridiculous. I understand its a what-have-you-done-lately business but it's funny to me. With that said, I expect the RB rotation to continue to keep fresh legs in there and go with the "hot hand."

I personally think Maroney is the answer at RB though. He cares and runs hard.

 

[RobertWeathers]

No actually I don't, and I also don't know if the game were closer would he have been put back in the 2nd half. But yea, you keep believing you know everything.

Why do you ignore the obvious? If BB didn't have abeef w/ the fumble he would have put him back in. This is silly.

Maybe you weren't following the conversation, you quoted my response to you saying he has put in efforts the last FEW weeks but that those efforts weren't enough. In the last FEW weeks he fumbled once in 67 carries. (67*4 = 268 btw).

He coughed it up on the goal line. Clearly the practice is not working as well as BB had hoped. If BB was 100% confident in his ability to hang on to the ball with a div title on the line, he would have stayed in there.

I'm pretty sure you can find a 3-4 fumble stretch for ANY RB, as I have already shown 4 fumble stretches in less carries for Peterson THIS YEAR, IN THE EXACT SAME WEEKS. However just because a RB has a stretch like that (and ALL do) doesn't mean that it was or will continue to be a problem.

My entire opinion is based on the value of Maroney and his relative production weighed against associated risk. You and I differ on trends and sample size. Thats fine. But if you know you will get relative production to Maroney from Taylor, Morris and Faulk and based on long term and short-term observations, feel pretty confident that of that grouping, the feeling is that no one will put the ball on the ground, you manage the risk.

Tomlinson had a streak in 2004 of 4 fumbles in 7 games (~140 carries), should the Chargers have been worried and started giving the rock to someone else then? Hey it was a trend ya know

Again, production outweighed the risk. Can't compare the two. I do guarantee you that they emphisized ball security with him in practice as a refresher..

No it does not really bring into question his ability to hang onto the football. If it continues longterm, then that's a different story. Please stop trying to diffuse the fact that we are really talking about 3 games in November here (in which he fumbled once in each). The last fumble is meaningless in your discussion without the context of those 3.

But it is when looking at his last 116 carries. As I've said if he hadn't fumbled in say his last 116 carries (his career ave) this thread and my posts would not exist.

What does that have to do with anything? When Brady throws 3-4 INT in a game, I'm sure he goes back and works on things and tries to fix whatever went wrong. But I am also sure you aren't worried about Brady's "tendency" to throw INTs after those games. BB caring and players working on things is not what this discussion is about. I will reiterate once again, I am NOT worried about Maroney's ball security going forward. Obviously that could change, just like if Brady started throwing 25 int seasons I'd get worried, but I'm not here worried after a 3 game stretch that Brady doesn't play his best.

Not worried about TB in the least. There is a long track record of ball security, atonement, and correcting errors.

There is no "contrarian viewpoint" nor is there anything to "admit". The historical evidence on Maroney supports the idea that he is good with ball security. A string of 3 games is not going to change that, nor should it for any RB.

If he were putting up monster #s and the O couldn't live w/o him, I would change my tune. That is not the case here.Maroney adds a nice dimension, but it not the straw that stirs the drink. All about risk vs reward.

Once again you develop a bias for a certain player and then nitpick and try to claim a "trend" that you see is worrisome. It wasn't a trend nor was it worrisome when you tried it for Moss' 3 game dip, and it's the same crap here. You zoom in on that graph all you want, but your argument doesn't hold water when that graph is put into the correct context with all the evidence.

4 fumbles in 116 carries for a player who normally fumbles every 112 times or so times is alarming. Get your head out of the sand man. Hes got a fumbling problem.

Would you or would you not give Adrian Peterson the bulk of the carries if he were on the Patriots today? Even with Maroney, Taylor and Morris putting the rock on the ground less frequently, would you play any of them more frequently?

You're right, 67 is almost twice as BAD. But yea Peterson was the wrong guy to use here as he actually does put the ball on the ground too frequently.

Chris Johnson is pretty damn awesome all the way around

Who would you rather have? Peterson, Maroney or Taylor?

Situations are different. Vikes NEED AP. Pats dont need LoMo to win a SB.

Or course I'd rather have AP than the Pats stable of RBs, but it's risk vs reward with me. LoMo will give you 50 yds a game. AP will give you 100 yds a TD a game and set up the D to key on him every time there is a play action. Its worth coughing up the ball every 45 carries for that kind of production and game changing ability. This Pats team doesn't have a lot of room for error this year. They need to hang on to the ball, move the chains and have the running game productive enough to set up PA, move the chains and grind out the clock.

We differ in the sense that you seemingly like knee-jerk reactions of small current samples rather than using all historical evidence.

I'm as knee-jerk as you are in complete denial that your heroes sometimes don't perform and need a kick in the pants. I know that they are perfect to and shouldn't be criticized. God forbid.

 

[Oceanviewer1]

Right now, Maroney is the 3rd best back. Nothing more.

 

[The Dynasty]

What if Sammy Morris was the one who fumbled? Would people be saying that he shouldnt get the ball in the playoffs? Its sad at all the hate Maroney gets in this town, especially after a play that should have been ruled a TD and if that was the case we'd be saying what a great thing we have with all these good RBs, now we're saying how one should be taken out of our offense

 

[juny]

Can't they just put in Morris or Taylor near the goal line? Maroney looked fine otherwise during his short stint yesterday.

 

[SpiderFox53]

Right now, Maroney is the 3rd best back. Nothing more.

That is just downright hilarious.

 

[Fencer]

I only made it through a few pages of the thread, but:

1. This many RZ/goal-line problems is a technique problem.
2. Maroney has trouble with overthinking. If you tell him he has to fix a technique problem RIGHT NOW, he's likely to become an ineffective back overall.

Therefore, I expect him to get a lot of coaching on ball security, after which he'll be eased back into short-yardage duty. But I don't know that he'll be the primary goal-line back ever as long as Taylor is healthy.

 

[PatsFan24]

What if Sammy Morris was the one who fumbled? Would people be saying that he shouldnt get the ball in the playoffs? Its sad at all the hate Maroney gets in this town, especially after a play that should have been ruled a TD and if that was the case we'd be saying what a great thing we have with all these good RBs, now we're saying how one should be taken out of our offense

the Maroney haters had to shut up for a while because he was playing well, now that they have a chance to rip into him again they are going to jump all over it. Maroney had never had an issue with fumbles until about a month ago, I am sure he will be out of this funk soon enough.

 

[emoney_33]

Why do you ignore the obvious? If BB didn't have abeef w/ the fumble he would have put him back in. This is silly.

It is not "silly" at all. Once again you try to prove causation with correlation. You COULD be right, but it is far from silly to believe you are incorrect. Everyone had success running the ball yesterday, Maroney wasn't needed and he has the most carries of any RB. Other players needed more reps than him for the playoff run (especially since they needed Taylor to get some).

I never said BB didn't have a "beef" with the fumble, obviously BB is none to pleased about any turnovers especially in the redzone. It's possible and maybe even likely that he was letting Maroney know that it can't happen at this time of the year. I also think it's possible that Morris and Taylor needed to get some work in, whereas Maroney has been the workhorse in the 2nd half of the season.

Once again you simply want to demand your opinion is fact and ignore the entire body of evidence in favor of your small scope.

He coughed it up on the goal line. Clearly the practice is not working as well as BB had hoped. If BB was 100% confident in his ability to hang on to the ball with a div title on the line, he would have stayed in there.

More conjecture...

My entire opinion is based on the value of Maroney and his relative production weighed against associated risk. You and I differ on trends and sample size. Thats fine. But if you know you will get relative production to Maroney from Taylor, Morris and Faulk and based on long term and short-term observations, feel pretty confident that of that grouping, the feeling is that no one will put the ball on the ground, you manage the risk.

Morris fumbles the ball every 85 carries throughout his career. Morris is factually a larger risk to fumble than Maroney, regardless of your little microscope. You are basing your "risk" assessment entirely on THREE games in weeks 10-12. You do not use such short-term data as a predictor of future events.

All the data suggests that this is not a "trend" just like all the data suggested Moss' 3 game dip was NOT a "trend".

But it is when looking at his last 116 carries. As I've said if he hadn't fumbled in say his last 116 carries (his career ave) this thread and my posts would not exist.

Once again you are nitpicking with knee-jerk reactions to the exact current moment. It's the same knee-jerk "worrisome trend" arguments you had with Moss before that was proven incredibly off base. Any "bad stretch" is going to have a point in time where it is the most recent stretch. But when ALL the facts are considered, you can see what is actually more likely for future events. Yet you continue to want to use only the facts that support your case to argue future predictions...

Not worried about TB in the least. There is a long track record of ball security, atonement, and correcting errors.

Maroney has a track record (albeit not long like Brady's) of ball security, success while healthy, success in the playoffs, running hard in the late months... Oh yes but your handful of 3-4 games is all that matters.

If he were putting up monster #s and the O couldn't live w/o him, I would change my tune. That is not the case here.Maroney adds a nice dimension, but it not the straw that stirs the drink. All about risk vs reward.

All about your bias actually, nothing to do with risk/reward. If we were in fact arguing risk/reward you would clearly see Maroney is low-risk high-reward player. He is the Patriots best RB, and will be used accordingly. I expect him and Taylor to lead the way in the playoffs.

4 fumbles in 116 carries for a player who normally fumbles every 112 times or so times is alarming. Get your head out of the sand man. Hes got a fumbling problem.

My head is clear, yours is biased as it was with Moss. He does NOT "have" a fumbling problem. If you believe this then you will be surprised when he stops fumbling, yet I will just see it as normal.

Situations are different. Vikes NEED AP. Pats dont need LoMo to win a SB.

Pats don't "need" any one single player, it's part of their design in building the team... Well I guess they "need" Brady, but that's a different story. That doesn't do anything to change the fact that Maroney is the best RB on the roster and gives the best chance to win in the playoffs.

Or course I'd rather have AP than the Pats stable of RBs, but it's risk vs reward with me. LoMo will give you 50 yds a game. AP will give you 100 yds a TD a game and set up the D to key on him every time there is a play action.

Peterson isn't going to give you 100 yards a game in this offense, and in fact has given the Vikes only 3 such games this year.

Its worth coughing up the ball every 45 carries for that kind of production and game changing ability.

What kind of production? 88 YPG is worth those fumbles? Or is the 4.4 YPC worth those fumbles? Or is the potential for the big play that is worth those fumbles? Where exactly is your precise risk/reward management to determine that Peterson's high fumble risk is absolutely dominated by his rewards?

This Pats team doesn't have a lot of room for error this year. They need to hang on to the ball, move the chains and have the running game productive enough to set up PA, move the chains and grind out the clock.

No team has a lot of room for error in the playoffs. Maroney gives the best chance of what you claim the pats need in the running game.

I'm as knee-jerk as you are in complete denial that your heroes sometimes don't perform and need a kick in the pants. I know that they are perfect to and shouldn't be criticized. God forbid.

Maroney is now a hero of mine? I defend the over-the-top nonsense that is spewed here at times, but I do so with a level head. Just like you were proven wrong in your whole Moss trend argument, you will be proven wrong here when Maroney continues his career without a high fumbling rate.

I like how I am accused of being in denial of my "heroes", yet I am simply arguing against your flawed logic. I never said Maroney is an amazing RB or shouldn't be criticized. I never said it's OK for Maroney to fumble, especially at the goalline. I never said Maroney should not work on protecting the football. However you are arguing that Maroney is NOW fumble prone and that the 3-4 games this year that he fumbled in prove it so.

I am pointing out to you that in fact this is probably an anomaly that will go away and that when you take into account ALL of the facts, we shouldn't worry about Maroney fumbling in the FUTURE. The handful of games you so desperately want to use as proof of future predictions is ridiculous.

 

[stcjones]

These are my feelings too. Not that I'm happy about the "fumble" itself (really needs to protect the ball to avoid any doubt), but it shouldn't have been an issue. It was a touchdown.

As for giving the D credit, I agree to an extent. If a defender comes up from an angle and punches the ball out or gets a helmet on it, that's a good play by the D, and tough luck for the RB most likely. I see a lot of fumbles in the NFL (not Maroney necessarily, just general), where the ball carrier basically just gets tackled and drops the ball. Those I pin on the fumbler, so it can work either way.

For this fumble, tough to say, as we didn't have an angle to see HOW the ball came out. Which brings up another point: Why on earth do we have instant replay, but not cameras that can see from both sidelines? I wanted to see the Maroney fumble from the OTHER side because we clearly had no way to see the ball from behind him.

"For this fumble, tough to say, as we didn't have an angle to see HOW the ball came out."

This is the main point. First of all a fumble is a fumble whether it is a touchdown or not. Maroney needs to work on hanging onto the ball. Period. Back to the play in question....it is IMPOSSIBLE TO SEE where he or the ball was in relation to the goal line.......The ball looked like it came straight down on the goal line....but it is impossible to tell whether it came straight out of Maroneys hands and straight down....or it got punched out and hit a player's back and dropped straight down.......Personally I could have sworn I saw someone behind the grassy knoll there.......Only final point is......Hold onto the damn rock Maroney!!!!

 

[JackBauer]

Right now, Maroney is the 3rd best back. Nothing more.

The best thing about this forum is that even the most arrantly uninformed posters have a voice!