Maroney and Belichick hold weekly meetings to go over each run - Maroney's idea

[Nikolai]

The guy's YPC was better in 2006 in 2007 than it is this year. In 2008 he missed basically the whole year. So funny how people can't see the obvious - the guy has been a quality back, though a sometimes injured one - from day one.

I can see the obvious. You can't sit there and tell me seriously that he has been running like this all along, consistently, even in 2006 and 2007. We've had 6-7 weeks in a row now of solid running from Maroney. He's getting it now.

Jesus, some of you guys get real touchy with this.

A late bloomer who is only 24.

I guess that's the advantages of coming in so young. It affords more time to develop. As we know, the longevity of RBs in this league is limited. The age of 30 is the proverbial brick wall for backs, so if he can keep it up, we could have a very productive back for quite a while.

 

[Betterthanmost]

A late bloomer who is only 24.

Most people really don't know a lot about Moroney and why BB seems to like the guy. He really has been just a kid growing up. Left College a bit early.
I had no idea he was this young. I thought he might be as old as Barber.

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm not sure what part of "style" you missed there. There's no "nail" and no "coffin". There's a difference in running styles, which is something that many of the Maroney supporters have been saying all along. Again, "one cut and go" is a style, not a requirement. Barry Sanders was not a "one cut and go" runner, just to name the most obvious great. When you run with a "one cut and go" style, you end up with a lot of lousy runs if the line isn't opening up immediate holes.

Not coincidently, that's what we've seen from the running game all year, and not just from Maroney.

Enlightening stuff there.

I would applaud your 'effort' of defending the undefendable (if you had in fact made much of an effort). Just admit it once Deus--you and others have been wrong. BB and Maroney can't lay it out there any more clearly for you--they have adjusted Maroney's running style--less hesitation, more power. The results have been successful.

I swear you will argue with anything just for arguments sake. That's okay.

You should read the article, because Maroney specifically talks about the style issue, and you should also look at the numbers. The reality is that, for all the silliness about how Maroney is supposedly not dancing and is running harder, his YPC is DOWN from what it used to be, and the team's running game has been less effective. That's because this sort of running is more dependent upon the offensive line opening up the hole that's supposed to be there, and this line hasn't been dependable at that for some time.

What's funny is that you're using BB in your argument. Well, BB was the one who laid it at the foot of the offensive linemen earlier in the year.

2006: 4.3
2007: 4.5
2008: injured
2009: 3.9

I'll take the running back that's getting crap from fans for 'dancing' while getting the job done at a higher level, thanks.

As for arguing for argument's sake, I'm not the one who came into the thread with "I want to hear from the stubborn know-it-alls who keep insisting that Maroney has changed NOTHING...". That would be you.

 

[Mogamedogz]

I might have to start liking this kid...

Seriously though... i am still holding out hope that his MAN STRENGTH (after 25 for most men) will kick in... People forget how young he still is. Younger than the other top backs in his draft class.

 

[Schmo]

I'll take the running back that's getting crap from fans for 'dancing' while getting the job done at a higher level, thanks.

I agree and disagree. His "style" has always run against the grain (no pun intended) in this offense. I don't think anyone can really complain about the line in the last few years, since they have been so excellent at pass protection. So, it HAS to be Maroney's fault, right?

The main focus has to be protecting Brady, so Maroney has to be the scapegoat. What Deus is saying is that Maroney has always been this type of rusher. When he was drafted, the Patriots knew it (I sure as hell hope so), and yet his "style" hasn't melded well with the offense. At last, there is a communication between Maroney and BB concerning the obvious difference in "styles," and for once, it looks like a sign that the Patriots are giving a concentrated effort to improve the ground game.

 

[DarrylS]

Never disliked Maroney, his injuries have held him back... always thought Barber was the better of the tandem, but in my limited viewing of the Cowboys this year.. Barber looks like Maroney, injuries are the equalizer...

 

[WelshPat]

^Tbf to Barber the Cowboys have stupidly allowed to him to play when he hurt his quad, even though they have 2 other good backs on the team.

 

[Bella*chick]

A late bloomer who is only 24.

Wow, so young! And since he has been out with injuries in previous seasons, he doesn't have the mileage that he otherwise would have....which hopefully means he's got a lot of productive years left.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Got a good chuckle this am from this particular BB muse...

“Those defensive players are pretty smart, too. They just don’t go out there and stand there like a bunch of statues. They’re not just a bunch of morons.

 

[everlong]

654 yards on the season

I think it would be a really good thing for the team going into the playoffs and for Maroney's long term confidence if he was to hit the 1,000 yard mark. Granted with the 16 game season that mark isn't what it once was but for a guy who's career high is 835 it's significant. For the team who hasn't completely clicked in the passing game all year and is searching for an identity at the third wide-out position it would keep 3rd down manageable and open things up for play action. I wish they would use play action more but Maroney needs to work on his pass blocking still.

 

[buile]

> they have been so excellent at pass protection

This doesn't always translate to good run blocking, however.

I'm pleased with Maroney working to improve. He's taking everybody head-on once past the line, and I *hope* this doesn't get him injured. His extra fight gets extra yards, but ~maybe~ this is why we see more fumbles (seems like he went down more quickly in the past), so I'll take the bad with the good for now.

Next thing I'd like to see from him is explosive speed we know he must have... once around the edge, it feels like he runs "deliberately" rather than explosively... so would love to see him use speed to surprise the defense and see how that works for him.

 

[RhodyPatriot]

The kid works hard and plays for a team that's simply is not committed to the run. What drives me crazy is when they do run early in the game and it's successful they go away from it and start throwing the ball.
It's the Mossification of this offense and it's hurting this team.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

The ball security issues have me worried, but the new running style seems to be working and there are a lot of new Maroney fans.

But watching him this season, and hearing all the talk of running style, made me think of a post I read over at Advanced NFL Stats which compared running performance. Basically, there are high-variance and low-variance runners in the NFL. The high-variance guys are more likely to give you a big play, but also more likely to lose yardage. The low-variance guys are the plodders who are consistently churning out yards for you. Sometimes they'll even have the same YPC, but the main difference is in the number of big plays and the number of bad plays for losses.

The argument they made was that if you were a good team, you wanted the consistency so you could rely on it, so you'd want a low-variance runner. If you weren't a good team, you wanted the high-variance runner because it would be the only chance you could win, so you'd be willing to trade some negative plays for the explosive plays.

Well Maroney's dancing style always fit that high-variance style of running. He would frustrate fans with his happy feet, getting caught in the backfield for losses which would often kill drives. His explosive plays weren't really appreciated because we had an offense that could generate big plays, especially in 2007. So he was seen as inconsistent, and the fans hated watching drives end because he got caught in the backfield.

Now he seems to be dancing less, hitting the hole, taking what's there. His YPC is down this season because he's traded some explosiveness by taking a few yards in the hole. There haven't been as many negative plays, and he's relying on the line to open up the holes now. But he's gained that consistency that we wanted, and now the fans are with him.

The 2007 offense was like a dream, but too good to be true. Many will agree that in terms of offensive balance, we were at our best when we had a guy like Dillon who could churn out yards on a consistent basis. BB and Maroney have worked to make it happen too, and kudos to Maroney for these weekly meetings. I can't think of a case where I saw a runner change his style so much over a season.

So Maroney has actually been less effective in terms of YPC, but Pats fans are happier because he's been more consistent. I hope he continues to improve and hold onto the ball, as he's still quite young and obviously has a ton of talent.

 

[Deus Irae]

...So Maroney has actually been less effective in terms of YPC, but Pats fans are happier because he's been more consistent. I hope he continues to improve and hold onto the ball, as he's still quite young and obviously has a ton of talent.

His success rate was better in 2007, as were his DYAR and DVOA.

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | RUNNING BACKS 2009

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | RUNNING BACKS 2007

And here's an explanation of success rate, for anyone who hasn't looked at it:

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Introducing Running Back Success Rate

I'm happy that people aren't on his back as much, because the anti-Maroney stuff was over the top, but he was a more effective runner in 2007 than he has been so far this season.

 

[LuRkeR1978]

Fans have to realize that some players require more time to develop excellence.

For example... Kevin Faulk did not become Kevin Faulk untill 2002. He was drafted in 1999.

 

[PatsfanGlo]

Well if it doesn't work out, I guess we'll see a lot of thread reading 'Maroney's run ideas are made of glass.' Just kidding. I like that he is taking initiative and stepping up. Hope he has kick ass game.:singing:

 

[convertedpatsfan]

His success rate was better in 2007, as were his DYAR and DVOA.

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | RUNNING BACKS 2009

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | RUNNING BACKS 2007

And here's an explanation of success rate, for anyone who hasn't looked at it:

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Introducing Running Back Success Rate

I'm happy that people aren't on his back as much, because the anti-Maroney stuff was over the top, but he was a more effective runner in 2007 than he has been so far this season.

Good links, thanks. Yeah, I thought he was more dangerous in 2007 and a much better runner. But people really hated watching him dance in the backfield, and so long as I don't have to read 7 "Maroney's a Bust" threads every day here, I can live with the style change.

 

[RayClay]

The argument they made was that if you were a good team, you wanted the consistency so you could rely on it, so you'd want a low-variance runner. If you weren't a good team, you wanted the high-variance runner because it would be the only chance you could win, so you'd be willing to trade some negative plays for the explosive plays.

While true, the problem with that argument is you always have the option of passing, even if you're QB sucks and you have a Barry Sanders caliber runner.

You always need a running back that can be consistent to get first downs, touchdowns and force the defense to respect that aspect of the running game.

Having one that can break a big run is a bonus. No running back on a successful team fails to consistently hit runs of 3-5 yards. Plodders do, and others that consistently can become complete runners.

Even though this clip is highlights, watch how often Sanders runs it up the gut without hesitating. Obviously, defenses have to respect his ability to run around the end too.

YouTube - Barry Sanders - Greatest of All Time

If defenses start packing inside against Mo, he'll kill them with sweeps too. NFL defenses are too good, you need to establish inside dominance to go outside with consistency.

 

[thechris]

He's been running more like his buddy Marion Barber

 

[WhiZa]

He's been running more like his buddy Marion Barber

That's a good comparison. I just wish he started doing this 3 years ago