MMQB on Moss and Brady

[RobertWeathers]

Did you just start following the Patriots this season? There is absolutely no way in hell BB ever sends SOME players home for being late and gives others a pass for being late on that day. Not a snowball's chance in hell. .

I would recommend researching how Parcells and Belichick handled Lawrence Taylor. Yes, as far as attendance goes BB has operational parameters for meetings, practices, etc. but will cut players slack based on extenuating circumstances, team performance and committment. Hes not Coughlin.

But like I said the TEAM winning is a different story in the sense that if we were winning, then BB may not have driven the commitment issue on Monday. We don't know this but then again we don't know much about what goes on behind closed doors. We only even know about the players sent home because of Thomas' whiny baby mouth.

The 4 players who don't "get it" were sent home. Hopefully they get it now.

 

[emoney_33]

Yes, because I am irrational now too. LOL!

I wish I blew Moss' poor, lackidasical performance yesterday out of proportion. Considering I only have giving him crap on the INT, I have under played it.

Sorry it becomes hard to remember who has said what specifically in multiple threads.

 

[emoney_33]

I would recommend researching how Parcells and Belichick handled Lawrence Taylor. Yes, as far as attendance goes BB has operational parameters for meetings, practices, etc. but will cut players slack based on extenuating circumstances, team performance and committment. Hes not Coughlin.




The 4 players who don't "get it" were sent home. Hopefully they get it now.

Not a chance in hell any player showing up late on Wednesday would have been given a SPECIAL pass, Brady included.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Not a chance in hell any player showing up late on Wednesday would have been given a SPECIAL pass, Brady included.

You are not reading the posts. They are losing. I'm done on this thread. You are looking to argue for the sake of arguing. Not fun anymore.

 

[emoney_33]

You are not reading the posts. They are losing. I'm done on this thread. You are looking to argue for the sake of arguing. Not fun anymore.

You said if Moss was producing on the field he wouldn't have been sent home. You did NOT say that if the TEAM was winning, none of them would have been sent home.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Yes, it is much subjective because it is Randy Moss and he couldn't possibly have dogged it on the play. I am tying my opinion on logic and statements by players. It was clear it was a miscommunication issue. The Moss butt swap crowd cannot even admit that and want to blame it on a bad throw by Brady where there is absolutely no evidence of it. I have admitted that a miscommunication issue can fall on either party. The brady rum swabs clearly know that Brady can't read defenses, so it has to be his fault.

Nobody said that. Some people said that Brady made a bad throw (which can happen), but I didn't even say that. I left it as miscommunication--because that's what Brady said it was--and I don't know whose fault that was. Probably Moss's, but I don't see how that fits into your overarching point that he's 'dogging it'.

BTW, the fact that you're calling us the "butt swap" crowd says an awful lot about your case, doesn't it? Seems to me like you're pretty irrational and throwing a bit of a temper tantrum...

Funny, you have trusted what my eyes have saw when you liked what I say. I am friggin genius when I say things that support the Pats and when I blast one of them, I am a biased troll.

... I don't think I've done that, but I guess it's possible. To be totally honest, I can't remember your opinions on many other topics, so it would seem that your opinion matters a lot less to me than you think it does.

And even if that was true, the reason is simple: I'm all for observation as a method of determining a player's value and worth. Systematically, it's an absolutely necessary component of evaluating anyone. Systematically being the key word, there. Just because I don't trust a handful of arbitrary observations that you claim to half-remember doesn't mean that I reject empirical data entirely.

If you gave the impression that you had any standard for what constituted 'dogging it', and that you had applied that standard to a wide variety of players and had reached the conclusion that Moss "dogs it" more than most, then 'what your eyes saw' might have a little bit more credibility. I still might debate the methodology that you were using, but at least there would be a foundation there.

BTW, I am tying things into on the field production and he isn't. He is using stats and stats are misleading as I pointed out.

Nobody who is using arbitrary and unqualified memories can ever reasonably call stats misleading. All forms of interpretation are flawed in some way, and yes, that includes stats. They're not misleading so much as they can be misinterpreted, and oftentimes are by hacks who don't understand how to properly use them. To pretend that they don't paint a fairly objective perception of what's going on, however, is just dumb. Stats are a vital component of any discussion regarding player and team performance, and to pretend otherwise is just ignorant.

 

[RobertWeathers]

You said if Moss was producing on the field he wouldn't have been sent home. You did NOT say that if the TEAM was winning, none of them would have been sent home.

Read post #73. Getting tiring....

Never singled out Moss. If BB thought 15 guys were not comitting fully to the team, making plays and helping the team win he'd send them home too.

 

[emoney_33]

Read post #73. Getting tiring....

Never singled out Moss. If BB thought 15 guys were not comitting fully to the team, making plays and helping the team win he'd send them home too.

It's getting tiring because you continue to change what you are saying.

You claim that if ONE of those 4 players were performing then they wouldn't have been sent home, but the other 3 still would have. And this is what I am disputing. They were sent home because they were late, their PERSONAL performances had NOTHING to do with it.

Other things LED up to the decision to punish the late and that includes the losing accompanied with the message on Monday to start showing more commitment and arrive early.

 

[emoney_33]

Wrong. You make plays on the field- thats what matters to BB. All 4 player who were late have not been making plays. Coincidence? I dont think so.

If Burgess has 12 sacks right now hes getting a pass. You are kidding yourself if you don't think that is happening.

Here's post #73, which doesn't dispute your above point...

Not if the individuals are making plays and the team is winning. Funny how losing causes all these little problems.

The point is he's not going to send 3 guys home and let 1 have a pass, that's just NOT how he runs things and it would create a lot of problems if he did.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Here's post #73, which doesn't dispute your above point...





The point is he's not going to send 3 guys home and let 1 have a pass, that's just NOT how he runs things and it would create a lot of problems if he did.

Wrong. Seau got special treatment. Troy Brown got special treatment. Anthony Pleasent got special treatment. Roman Pfeiffer got special treatment. You make plays, the team wins and you add value to the team, you get cut slack by BB. Its part of the NFL. Les Stekel is not coach of this team. My god.

You are poking holes in my statements based on you own hypothetics. All 4 who were sent home arent performing as of late. In their own way, they aren't committed to the team. They wern't adding the value the team needs from them. The team is losing.

Yes- If Derrick Burgess had 12 sacks, was a BB soldier, helped the yourng LBs and players and the team was 10-2, BB would have found a "Epstien's Mom" note somewhere. No question.

Those are facts. You have no facts. You are being ridiculous.

 

[emoney_33]

Wrong. Seau got special treatment. Troy Brown got special treatment. Anthony Pleasent got special treatment. Roman Pfeiffer got special treatment. You make plays, the team wins and you add value to the team, you get cut slack by BB. Its part of the NFL. Les Stekel is not coach of this team. My god.

You are poking holes in my statements based on you own hypothetics. All 4 who were sent home arent performing as of late. In their own way, they aren't committed to the team. They wern't adding the value the team needs from them. The team is losing.

Yes- If Derrick Burgess had 12 sacks, was a BB soldier, helped the yourng LBs and players and the team was 10-2, BB would have found a "Epstien's Mom" note somewhere. No question.

Those are facts. You have no facts. You are being ridiculous.

WTF those are facts? Was Seau late? You are clueless, forget it.

There is absolutely no way in hell BB would send 3 players home FOR BEING LATE and let one stay. Not a chance in hell would that ever happen. But continue to pretend you have a leg to stand on

 

[BradyFTW!]

When did MMQB become an authority? Last I remember, everyone here hated Peter King for being one of Belichick's most vicious critics post-Spygate? Does media criticism apply to Moss but not to Belichick for some reason, or are you guys just a bunch of inconsistent fans with an axe to grind re: Moss? Because if you take anything King says about Moss seriously, then it's either one or the other.

 

[RobertWeathers]

WTF those are facts? Was Seau late? You are clueless, forget it.

There is absolutely no way in hell BB would send 3 players home FOR BEING LATE and let one stay. Not a chance in hell would that ever happen. But continue to pretend you have a leg to stand on

........and continue to dream that all is black and white with BB.

My two legs are fine. Much stronger than your leg in defending the notion that nothing wrong with Moss. Your pink hat is fading. Better get a new one.

 

[emoney_33]

........and continue to dream that all is black and white with BB.

My two legs are fine. Much stronger than your leg in defending the notion that nothing wrong with Moss. Your pink hat is fading. Better get a new one.

I never said all is black and white... I said that there is no way that he sends some players home for being late on the same day that he excuses others for being late. EVER

 

[RobertWeathers]

I never said all is black and white... I said that there is no way that he sends some players home for being late on the same day that he excuses others for being late. EVER

emoney you are missing the point. The only person who knows if a player is ABSOLUTELY late is the coach. Its not like a college lecture hall. I know what Ted Johnson said last week and hes right. He would have had hell to pay. But it was also at that time where he and BB were having problems.

We'll just agree to disagree.

 

[SVN]

king is even harsh later in the piece

Goat of the Week

Randy Moss, WR, New England.

A dog performance by one of my all-decade wide receivers, I'm ashamed to report. In fact, I'm very close to wishing I gave that spot to Torry Holt now. In the wake of being sent home after showing up late for a Wednesday meeting, Moss had a bad day in the 20-10 win over Carolina. He had one catch (which he fumbled), one bad drop, one alligator-arm incompletion and one poor effort that resulted in a Carolina interception.

In the third series of a scoreless game, right in front of the New England bench, Moss stopped short on a sideline pattern, and instead of at least breaking it up, he allowed Carolina cornerback Chris Gamble the chance to intercept the ball, and Gamble did. On the next series, he caught a short throw from Brady over the middle and immediately had the ball popped out by Gamble. On the sidelines at one point, Brady went to him and looked like he was trying to pump up Moss, and Moss sat there, lifeless. It's almost like the guy had the air popped from his balloon. There's nothing there. It goes back to failing to try to break up the end zone interception by Miami cornerback Vontae Davis in the end zone last week.

Moss looks totally disinterested. He's a captain. Despite Moss' tardiness Wednesday, Bill Belichick let him go out with the captains for the pre-game coin toss. I'm not sure how I'd handle this if I were Belichick; he's in a fairly impossible situation. But there's no question Moss isn't the guts-out player he's been for much of his three-year Patriots career anymore.

Sadly for someone who covers information he doesnt report why this is happening...he is turning into one of the boston based reporters.

 

[vyrago]

Holley is just telling us he knows for a fact that Brady called Moss out in practice about a month ago and it didn't go over well at the time and has caused a bit of a problem between them. Moss called Tom later that evening and told him he'd hurt his feelings...

And how does Holley know this?

 

[The Dynasty]

And how does Holley know this?

I'm sure Holley talks to people on the team. He did follow them for over a year when he wrote his book.

 

[vyrago]

I'm sure Holley talks to people on the team. He did follow them for over a year when he wrote his book.

I'm referring to Moss' phonecall to Brady telling him his feelings were hurt.

 

[blackglass3]

When did MMQB become an authority? Last I remember, everyone here hated Peter King for being one of Belichick's most vicious critics post-Spygate? Does media criticism apply to Moss but not to Belichick for some reason, or are you guys just a bunch of inconsistent fans with an axe to grind re: Moss? Because if you take anything King says about Moss seriously, then it's either one or the other.

Got to agree. Peter King is a blowhard who loves to make himself look important (OMG I talked to TOM BRADY for like 15 minutes! It was a TOTALLY AWESOME convo! He's so hunky!) and devotes a chunk of his column to pontificating about coffee, for God's sakes. His column is like reading TMZ.

And why, again, is the media so focused on Randy Moss when there are 2 13-0 teams? Where's Mercury Morris talking how they aren't on the 72 Dolphins level, the Path To Perfection ticker on ESPN Crawl, and Merrill Hoge on every ESPN show saying there are better teams that aren't undefeated?

How much longer are we America's Most Hated Team? Cause this crap is just exhausting to deal with every single season. I am fairly certain there are 31 other teams in the league, although you'd never know it by the coverage.