Vollmer vs. Light

[Batman]

Maybe sitting Kaczur could light a fire under him and get him going.

 

[The Dynasty]

Light's been himself since he came back, I'm not sure why people are having a go at him. Not to blow my own horn, but I was the first person on this board to spot Vollmer and have supported him since - but Light is our LT and will be until Belichick deems other-wise, and rightly so. He's a 9 year multiple Pro-Bowler who is playing well - there shouldn't really be that much concern about his job right now.

On the other hand, Nick Kaczur.....

LeVoir has to start at RT IMO. Nick's play has been awful since about week 5, and it's getting worse. LeVoir is a good player, and deserves a shot at a starting spot.

I agree that Light will probably stay at LT when Vollmer comes back. I cant see BB moving him to RT since hes played LT his whole career, very hard to make the switch from LT to RT. But I do think that Vollmer will take some snaps away from Kazur at RT. Vollmer is just too talented to not be used. LeVoir is a solid back up OL, I dont think he can be a starter at this point though

 

[Rob0729]

What was called with Light and Mankins is irrelevant. With Vollmer and Mankins in the lineup you run over LG/LT. Those 2 guys are a load, and they would likely be able to get enough of a surge to make picking up the 1st down feasible.

On 4th and 1. You run up the middle. Plain and simple. They should have done a QB keep or ran Maroney, but on 4th and 1 you run up the middle because they stack the line and you go with the play that the ball carrier hits the line the fastest and hardest.

 

[Deus Irae]

This thread isn't serious, is it? I mean, are we really so hard up for scapegoats and heroes that we're going to go down the road of essentially blaming Light for things like the terrible game plan against the Jets and the slow start by Brady as he was returning from injury?

Was it Light's fault that the Patriots went empty backfield and Brady threw an ill-advised pass against the Saints? Was it Light's fault that the Patriots went with a quick hitter to Morris instead of giving the ball to Maroney on 4th down from inside the Dolphins' 10 yard line?

Come on, people.

 

[mayoclinic]

This thread isn't serious, is it? I mean, are we really so hard up for scapegoats and heroes that we're going to go down the road of essentially blaming Light for things like the terrible game plan against the Jets and the slow start by Brady as he was returning from injury?

Was it Light's fault that the Patriots went empty backfield and Brady threw an ill-advised pass against the Saints? Was it Light's fault that the Patriots went with a quick hitter to Morris instead of giving the ball to Maroney on 4th down from inside the Dolphins' 10 yard line?

Come on, people.

Deus,

I tried to make it clear in the opening post that I wasn't dissing Light or looking for a scapegoat. I also made it clear that there were lots of other factors than one person.

What I did try to call out was a pretty striking discrepancy in the offensive performance with Vollmer at LT vs. Light, and I questioned whether having a more physical lineman and one who might need less help from the interior line could have a significant effect on the overall performance of the offense. I don't think that's an unreasonable question.

I'm not "faulting" Light for anything. But I think the offense performed better with Vollmer at LT, beyond what may be explainable by coincidence or other factors. Sorry if that offends you.

 

[The Dynasty]

This thread isn't serious, is it? I mean, are we really so hard up for scapegoats and heroes that we're going to go down the road of essentially blaming Light for things like the terrible game plan against the Jets and the slow start by Brady as he was returning from injury?

Was it Light's fault that the Patriots went empty backfield and Brady threw an ill-advised pass against the Saints? Was it Light's fault that the Patriots went with a quick hitter to Morris instead of giving the ball to Maroney on 4th down from inside the Dolphins' 10 yard line?

Come on, people.

This thread is not about saying that Light is costing us games and is the reason we're losing. It's pointing out the fact that Vollmer is a better LT than Light. Those stats that were pointed out at the beginning are some pretty strong stats. It shows how important Vollmer is to this OL, more than bashing Light. I think that Light is still a valuable part to the OL as well. It would be nice if they both could be starting with Light at LT and Vollmer at RT, simply for the fact that since Light has played LT his whole career it would be very difficult to switch to the other side of the line.

 

[JSn]

That is interesting, but if you consider a natural progression toward "betterness" as a season goes on and the loss of Neal, it might not be as much Vollmer as it seems. Still, I think he's a better left tackle and needs to step back in asap.

 

[Deus Irae]

This thread is not about saying that Light is costing us games and is the reason we're losing. It's pointing out the fact that Vollmer is a better LT than Light. Those stats that were pointed out at the beginning are some pretty strong stats. It shows how important Vollmer is to this OL, more than bashing Light. I think that Light is still a valuable part to the OL as well. It would be nice if they both could be starting with Light at LT and Vollmer at RT, simply for the fact that since Light has played LT his whole career it would be very difficult to switch to the other side of the line.

No, those stats really aren't strong stats at all, since they ignore pretty much all context, which is the point, really. And it is about saying Light is costing the Patriots games and is the reason they are losing. If it wasn't, the thread wouldn't exist.

And Light is still better than Vollmer.

 

[The Dynasty]

No, those stats really aren't strong stats at all, since they ignore pretty much all context, which is the point, really. And it is about saying Light is costing the Patriots games and is the reason they are losing. If it wasn't, the thread wouldn't exist.

And Light is still better than Vollmer.

No the stat is not saying that Light is costing the Pats games, it is just pointing out that Vollmer is a solid contributer to this team. What if it were the other way around and the Pats were 3-4 with Vollmer starting and 4-1 with Light starting?

What proof do you have that Light is better than Vollmer? There are no stats for offensive linemen so you cant go by stats. It hasnt been like Vollmer has gone against dud defensive ends either, he has gone against some of the best in the league and has held his own. Light's age has been showing this year.

 

[Deus Irae]

No the stat is not saying that Light is costing the Pats games, it is just pointing out that Vollmer is a solid contributer to this team. What if it were the other way around and the Pats were 3-4 with Vollmer starting and 4-1 with Light starting?

The team's record this season is not a reflection of the left tackle. I'd say that same thing no matter who was playing the position. Since Light's return, Neal has been injured and gone on the shelf. Is that Light's fault?

What proof do you have that Light is better than Vollmer? There are no stats for offensive linemen so you cant go by stats. It hasnt been like Vollmer has gone against dud defensive ends either, he has gone against some of the best in the league and has held his own. Light's age has been showing this year.

Wait, so you're trying to use records, but now you're saying we can't go by stats? If you're doing that, you're saying that Light's costing the team games.

As for 'proof', I've got the fact that the team was starting Light over Vollmer, I've got the fact that the team was giving Vollmer far more help than it was giving Light, and I've got my eyes.

By the way, Vollmer's gone against 1 good pass rusher this season, and he had help on almost every snap in that game, according to Reiss.

 

[The Dynasty]

The team's record this season is not a reflection of the left tackle. I'd say that same thing no matter who was playing the position. Since Light's return, Neal has been injured and gone on the shelf. Is that Light's fault?

Wait, so you're trying to use records, but now you're saying we can't go by stats? If you're doing that, you're saying that Light's costing the team games.

As for 'proof', I've got the fact that the team was starting Light over Vollmer, I've got the fact that the team was giving Vollmer far more help than it was giving Light, and I've got my eyes.

By the way, Vollmer's gone against 1 good pass rusher this season, and he had help on almost every snap in that game, according to Reiss.

You are over looking into this and what Mayo meant when he started this thread and my thoughts as well. He was pointing out that Vollmer has had a positive impact on the team, producing wins when he plays. It is showing that he is a valuable member of the team, not that Light is costing the team games.

Vollmer has gone against more than 1 good pass rusher and I dont know where you read or saw Reiss saying that Vollmer got help against Freeney. If they are giving help to Vollmer then why have they been successful in those games? You would think that if they were giving extra help to Vollmer than that would effect the whole OL and make them play worse, not being 4-1 in those games.

 

[Deus Irae]

You are over looking into this and what Mayo meant when he started this thread and my thoughts as well. He was pointing out that Vollmer has had a positive impact on the team, producing wins when he plays. It is showing that he is a valuable member of the team, not that Light is costing the team games.

No, I'm not "over looking into this". The comparison has been made about points and wins. The comparison is Vollmer to Light. Therefore, the end assertion is that Light is costing the team a large amount of points, and games as well. It's really that simple. It's just a terrible assertion by an O.P. who's usually an excellent poster.

Vollmer has gone against more than 1 good pass rusher and I dont know where you read or saw Reiss saying that Vollmer got help against Freeney. If they are giving help to Vollmer then why have they been successful in those games? You would think that if they were giving extra help to Vollmer than that would effect the whole OL and make them play worse, not being 4-1 in those games.

Freeney is the only top pass rusher that Vollmer has faced, and you can find Reiss' blog on ESPN's Boston portal.

And I don't associate the team's record to either Light or Vollmer, so your last sentence is nonsensical. However, given that 2 of those 4 wins were against Tennessee and Tampa Bay, perhaps we can dispense with the "4-1!" cries.

 

[Rob0729]

You are over looking into this and what Mayo meant when he started this thread and my thoughts as well. He was pointing out that Vollmer has had a positive impact on the team, producing wins when he plays. It is showing that he is a valuable member of the team, not that Light is costing the team games.

Vollmer has gone against more than 1 good pass rusher and I dont know where you read or saw Reiss saying that Vollmer got help against Freeney. If they are giving help to Vollmer then why have they been successful in those games? You would think that if they were giving extra help to Vollmer than that would effect the whole OL and make them play worse, not being 4-1 in those games.

There is a difference between a positive impact and being the difference between wins and losses.

Right now, TBC has as much or more sacks than any of the DE/OLBs that Vollmer has faced other than Freeney. Does anyone think TBC is a top pass rusher in this league? He is playing beyond our expectations, but let's not go overboard.

 

[BradyFTW!]

There was a link in another thread. The turnstile has given up zero penalties, very few sacks, but a lot of pressures.

That's because Brady can see the pass rusher coming from the right side. Brady will get rid of the ball when he's being pressured, so he'll rarely get sacked from the right. Doesn't change the fact that Kaczur is doing an atrocious job, and the consistent pressure is keeping the offense from getting in anything resembling a rhythm.

 

[BradyFTW!]

There is a difference between a positive impact and being the difference between wins and losses.

Right now, TBC has as much or more sacks than any of the DE/OLBs that Vollmer has faced other than Freeney. Does anyone think TBC is a top pass rusher in this league? He is playing beyond our expectations, but let's not go overboard.

Not when, in the last 4 weeks, we've lost by 2 points and 1 point.

 

[The Dynasty]

No, I'm not "over looking into this". The comparison has been made about points and wins. The comparison is Vollmer to Light. Therefore, the end assertion is that Light is costing the team a large amount of points, and games as well. It's really that simple. It's just a terrible assertion by an O.P. who's usually an excellent poster.

Freeney is the only top pass rusher that Vollmer has faced, and you can find Reiss' blog on ESPN's Boston portal.

And I don't associate the team's record to either Light or Vollmer, so your last sentence is nonsensical. However, given that 2 of those 4 wins were against Tennessee and Tampa Bay, perhaps we can dispense with the "4-1!" cries.

Yes you are over looking into this. Mayo did not mean to bash Light as he stated, he was clearly just stating a fact, not making any assumptions. There is no where that anyone said that Light is costing the team wins.

You said that Vollmer got help against Freeney, but for the majority of the game the Colts rushed 3, so what would you like Mankins to do, just stand there? He is going to help out the guy next to him.

 

[Deus Irae]

Yes you are over looking into this. Mayo did not mean to bash Light as he stated, he was clearly just stating a fact, not making any assumptions. There is no where that anyone said that Light is costing the team wins.

If you weigh 400 pounds and I say that you should probably eat less food and drink fewer high calorie beverages, I've not said that you are fat. The message is clearly there, though.

Same thing applies here. When you point to scoring and wins, and you focus on just one player, you're calling that player out. In this case, it's just not applicable. Light's not been the problem, Vollmer's not been a difference maker, and Light's still better than Vollmer.

Or is your next claim going to be that the Patriots wouldn't have dropped 50+ on the Titans if Light had been at LT for that game, and that the Patriots couldn't have put up 35 against Tampa Bay without Vollmer?

You said that Vollmer got help against Freeney, but for the majority of the game the Colts rushed 3, so what would you like Mankins to do, just stand there? He is going to help out the guy next to him.

Moving those goalposts again, huh? 1 top pass rusher, with help for most of the plays.

 

[The Dynasty]

If you weigh 400 pounds and I say that you should probably eat less food and drink fewer high calorie beverages, I've not said that you are fat. The message is clearly there, though.

Same thing applies here. When you point to scoring and wins, and you focus on just one player, you're calling that player out. In this case, it's just not applicable. Light's not been the problem, Vollmer's not been a difference maker, and Light's still better than Vollmer.

Or is your next claim going to be that the Patriots wouldn't have dropped 50+ on the Titans if Light had been at LT for that game, and that the Patriots couldn't have put up 35 against Tampa Bay without Vollmer?

Moving those goalposts again, huh? 1 top pass rusher, with help for most of the plays.

What is your deal? You are making assumptions as to what Mayo meant. You have no right to assume anything when he clearly said that he was not bashing Light. He was not calling Light out he was simply pointing something out. Vollmer has been a difference maker, you cannot deny that even if you still stick to the thought that Light is better.

The Colts rushed 3, one of them being a top pass rusher. When you have 5 blocking 3 obviously there will be some double teams, which is where the "help" came from. It would have been the same way if Light was playing.

 

[ALP]

not complete coincidence

vollmer is better against the run, and hence we have a better running game, and hence were a more complete team in those games, and hence we win more of them

 

[Deus Irae]

What is your deal? You are making assumptions as to what Mayo meant. You have no right to assume anything when he clearly said that he was not bashing Light. He was not calling Light out he was simply pointing something out. Vollmer has been a difference maker, you cannot deny that even if you still stick to the thought that Light is better.

Of course I can deny it. That's precisely what I'm doing.

The Colts rushed 3, one of them being a top pass rusher. When you have 5 blocking 3 obviously there will be some double teams, which is where the "help" came from. It would have been the same way if Light was playing.

Vollmer had help. Deal with it instead of moving the goalposts.

Vollmer has gone against more than 1 good pass rusher and I dont know where you read or saw Reiss saying that Vollmer got help against Freeney. If they are giving help to Vollmer then why have they been successful in those games? You would think that if they were giving extra help to Vollmer than that would effect the whole OL and make them play worse, not being 4-1 in those games.

Your argument was a poor one. It happens, but let's not pretend here and go changing your argument rather than admitting you erred. Hell, the "The Colts rushed 3" makes your assertion look even more silly.