If we want TE Help...

[Seneschal2]

I'm not sure CB or OG make the Day One shopping list.

I think it's too early to accurately predict a day one or day two shopping list. Post Combine/workouts we'll have a better idea where to place these prospects, as some may rise or fall.

I had OL as a Day One need in September before Neal came back and turned the O-line around. Projecting Light, Kaczur, LeVoir, and O'Callaghan as the 2009 OTs. Mankins, Neal, Hochstein, Connolly, Koppin as the interior OL. I can see using a Day One pick on an OT who could push Kaczur or LeVoir inside, but you can find some quality OG/OC types projected for Rds 3 & 4, a better value with Neal signed.

I'm uncomfortable with the RG situation if Neal were to go down again. Sure, we have versatile bodies to plug in in a pinch, but do we have one quality player ready to step in for Neal or Mankins long term so the entire unit doesn't suffer? Can we upgrade from Hochstein by drafting an OG/OC such as Jonathan Luigs?

I still have CB as a BPV (best Patriot value) for Day One and "need" for Day Two. Projecting Hobbs, Wheatley, Wilhite, Richardson, & Lewis Sanders for 2009. If someone like Cincinnati's Mike Mickens or Wake Forest's Alphonso Smith was the highest ranking player when the Pats pick in Rds one or two, then I'm cool, but someone like Cincinnati's DeAngelo Smith, Central Florida's Joe Burnett, and San Jose State's Christopher Owen are all decent values sporting Day Two grades.

Currently, I have CB as a need. Prefer to draft one CB to compete with Wheatley for the LCB position, as I feel he's the best from those listed. If he were to get injured again, we wouldn't rest easy knowing the above mentioned were manning that side of the field for any length of time. A position upgrade is certainly needed, and those I like are ranked in that R2-3 area.

TE, what can we say. Perhaps Thomas will revert to his rookie season's promise with a healthy offseason program. Watson will be more effective with Tommy - he and Mattyice are just not fully in-sync yet - though Ben has never had the consistency as a receiver or blocker that we've wanted to see from him. DeVree is inexpensive as a UDFA, he's obviously doing something the coaches like because they keep bringing him back and surprised people by activating him over Thomas in Seattle. There are a couple Day One TEs who might be worth the trouble, though I'd probably go in another direction at this point.

The TE position will be decided by the season ending evaluations of both Watson and Thomas. IF they (or one) remain healthy, are they capable of consistently producing in the passing game? Surely there's a benefit of having another short zone receiver (with Welker), and another go-to for Brady. In addition, having another large target in the congested RZ and EZ would lead to more TDs and fewer FGs. Inconsistency and unreliability is the issue here -- and do we make the effort to improve it this draft, or wait it out another season? Not a priority position of need IMO, unless Watson and Thomas receive poor evaluations.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I'm uncomfortable with the RG situation if Neal were to go down again. Sure, we have versatile bodies to plug in in a pinch, but do we have one quality player ready to step in for Neal or Mankins long term so the entire unit doesn't suffer? Can we upgrade from Hochstein by drafting an OG/OC such as Jonathan Luigs?

There is two ways to address this:
1. Draft a Day One OT to push Kaczur at RT and free him up to move inside.
2. Draft a G or C to compete for the Reserve slot.

Personally, I don't see the OL talent in this draft to upgrade over Neal or Kaczur, so waiting until Day Two to draft a C/G to battle Connolly, Hochstein, and Yates makes more sense. Luigs is one possibility, but there are several mid-round Centers who would be nice values. Wood of Louisville, Mack of California, Caldwell of Alabama come to mind. I like Canfield of Cincinnati from the G lists, and there are several later round/UDFA OT who might move inside too.

 

[Warren94]

I like Unger because he has the smarts as well as the nasty streak. He can play on the OL across the board. Definite Value Pick

 

[DaBruinz]

I like Unger because he has the smarts as well as the nasty streak. He can play on the OL across the board. Definite Value Pick

Unger is someone who is on my list as well. And I could see the Pats using their early 2nd round pick to grab him. He'd be an immediate upgrade over Hochstein as the Utility O-lineman and he would have the inside track to take over the RG position from Neal.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Unger is someone who is on my list as well. And I could see the Pats using their early 2nd round pick to grab him. He'd be an immediate upgrade over Hochstein as the Utility O-lineman and he would have the inside track to take over the RG position from Neal.

I like the updated profiled at NFL Draft Scout praising his "short area quickness." After the 'game of unspeakable heartbreak,' interior quickness becomes attractive.

 

[Warren94]

Especially with the challenges we have had on the right hand side of the OL. Neal and his shoulder challenges and I just think Kaczur is not a good football player. Probably going to get flamed for this, but he is awful.

 

[billdog3484]

whatever. i dont care if the TE we get runs a 5.0 and weighs 220 pounds. all i care is that the person who comes in can block and catch....and stay healthy...hopefully we can get someobody in here that does all three

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Especially with the challenges we have had on the right hand side of the OL. Neal and his shoulder challenges and I just think Kaczur is not a good football player. Probably going to get flamed for this, but he is awful.

As it happens...

...I do believe you misjudge Kaczur.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

As it happens...

...I do believe you misjudge Kaczur.

So where do you rate Kazcur as a ROT. And where do you think BB rates Kazcur as a ROT?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

So where do you rate Kazcur as a ROT. And where do you think BB rates Kazcur as a ROT?

For BB & Dante he's been a starter for four years, if you include taking over for Light as a rookie. He's similar to Light, some trouble with speed off the edge, but otherwise a solid well-rounded OT. Short of a Rd 1 OT, your not going to get much better.

 

[PatsFan2]

We got a great blocking and receiving TE coming out of ECU this year. His name is Davon Drew, he is 6'4" 258, and he runs a 4.7. Not only is he a big time blocker, but he can catch, and the only reason he doesn't put up big receiving stats is because we have trouble getting the ball to him. Also in every game this year if he gets a catch it takes half a team to bring him down. I have never honestly seen a single player bring him down. He is so athletic that in his freshman year at ECU he served as the backup QB.

Davon Drew*|*East Carolina,*TE*:*2009 NFL Draft Scout Player Profile

ESPN - Davon Drew Stats, News, Photos - East Carolina Pirates - NCAA College Football

Great find on David Drew, his numbers took a Huge jump this year he would be a steal. The Patriots have to get a TE that can help Wes Welker out over the middle or i think Welker has two year left tops. Both Watson and Thomas Sucks and should be upgraded. BB cannot be happy with either! Quick question anybody know what kind of injury Wisconsin's TE Travis Beckum sustained? Before his injury one would have to consider him the best of the bunch the kid put up some huge receiving numbers in 2006-2007.

 

[DaBruinz]

Great find on David Drew, his numbers took a Huge jump this year he would be a steal. The Patriots have to get a TE that can help Wes Welker out over the middle or i think Welker has two year left tops. Both Watson and Thomas Sucks and should be upgraded. BB cannot be happy with either! Quick question anybody know what kind of injury Wisconsin's TE Travis Beckum sustained? Before his injury one would have to consider him the best of the bunch the kid put up some huge receiving numbers in 2006-2007.

So, let me get this straight. Its your believe that if Welker continues to play the next two years the way he has since High School (that is 12 years), that his career will be over because he's doing it on the Pats now? If you go back and look, Welker had little help from TEs through-out his high school and college career. Yes, there was Randy McMichael in Miami, but even McMIchael took a back seat to Welker

 

[PatsFan2]

Ok Da-Knowitall lol let me tell you something your football knowledge is not greater than mine. I am making a point that if Welker continues at his rate he won't last too long in this league. You Remember Jets WR Wayne Crebett? he was a over the middle guy too...those concussions caught up to him. Wes is a marked man in this league now...Defensive players are out for him. The Patriots need to get a pass catching TE who can shoulder the burden over the middle. When last i checked that's what i thought TE's was for. Not the ZERO contribution we are getting from Watson and company!

 

[AzPatsFan]

For BB & Dante he's been a starter for four years, if you include taking over for Light as a rookie. He's similar to Light, some trouble with speed off the edge, but otherwise a solid well-rounded OT. Short of a Rd 1 OT, your not going to get much better.

I concur, but Kaczur can always move inside to RG, his "natural" position, if there was someone to take over ROT. You draft LOTs and then move them over if they don't have it.

I personally don't think that Cassel is traded for less than a top 12 pick, if he is traded at all. Then BB would take advantage of it, and draft a LOT to groom, even if he doesn't need him right now. You draft the guys that you can't get unless you have early picks, when you can, and LOTs don't grow on trees.

But I'd really rather have Taylor Mays or Moore, and Rey Maluaga, Lauranitis or Curry. I rank Lauranitis higher than most, because he has two attributes that others don't. He is a film room addict; and posseses a fine mind. I believe he graduated and has been going to Grad school this year. It takes brain power to QB the Defense, and the ILBs on a BB defense are expected to do that. I'd also take a flyer on Mo Rolle.

Defenses are built "up the middle". Putting three first round DLs, and backed by a pair of first round ILBs, and a pair of first round Safeties, is a recipe for a Defense that appeals to me. And that could happen this year.

 

[BritPat]

Nice post, although I'm not a fan of Laurinaitis personally.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I concur, but Kaczur can always move inside to RG, his "natural" position, if there was someone to take over ROT. You draft LOTs and then move them over if they don't have it.

I personally don't think that Cassel is traded for less than a top 12 pick, if he is traded at all. Then BB would take advantage of it, and draft a LOT to groom, even if he doesn't need him right now. You draft the guys that you can't get unless you have early picks, when you can, and LOTs don't grow on trees.

But I'd really rather have Taylor Mays or Moore, and Rey Maluaga, Lauranitis or Curry. I rank Lauranitis higher than most, because he has two attributes that others don't. He is a film room addict; and posseses a fine mind. I believe he graduated and has been going to Grad school this year. It takes brain power to QB the Defense, and the ILBs on a BB defense are expected to do that. I'd also take a flyer on Mo Rolle.

Defenses are built "up the middle". Putting three first round DLs, and backed by a pair of first round ILBs, and a pair of first round Safeties, is a recipe for a Defense that appeals to me. And that could happen this year.

Sure Kac can be moved inside, but as a shopping need OT isn't a priority with two starters and a two solid reserves returning.

If Cassel is franchised and traded then well and good, but we'll have plenty of time to "spend" that pick before the draft, I prefer to ponder the options with the known picks for now.

Maualuga and Laurenaitis have neither one sold me when I've seen them play. I'll be watching their bowl games for one last assessment in game conditions, but I don't see the fit for NE.

 

[PatsFan2]

I concur, but Kaczur can always move inside to RG, his "natural" position, if there was someone to take over ROT. You draft LOTs and then move them over if they don't have it.

Nick Kaczur is quick which is more suited for Tackle...he's not very Big or strong at the Point of Attack to battle Big Agile DT's in the trenches. Mankins is built like a tank and Neal is as strong as they come...Kaczur is neither. So we can knock off that talk about moving him inside because i don't think we'll ever see that happen.

 

[DaBruinz]

Ok Da-Knowitall lol let me tell you something your football knowledge is not greater than mine. I am making a point that if Welker continues at his rate he won't last too long in this league. You Remember Jets WR Wayne Crebett? he was a over the middle guy too...those concussions caught up to him. Wes is a marked man in this league now...Defensive players are out for him. The Patriots need to get a pass catching TE who can shoulder the burden over the middle. When last i checked that's what i thought TE's was for. Not the ZERO contribution we are getting from Watson and company!

Listen, you can be a jackass and attempt to insult me all you want, but you only make yourself look foolish and stupid when you use examples that don't actually support you. Your example of Wayne Chrebet is a perfect example because it only tears holes in your own spiel. Do you realize how many years that Chrebet was going over the middle for the Jets? How about 11 years. And he was doing so for 8 before the concussions cost him the better part of 2 of his last 3 seasons. And do you want to know something? Chrebet HAD help from the TEs. He had Johnny Mitchell and Kyle Brady.

The Pats are getting contribution from Watson and Thomas. The issue is that, more often then not, the routes those two are on are NOT over the middle. They are up the seam or out routes. That is on the coaching staff. The Patriots play-calling needs to be willing to send its TEs over the middle instead of having them block or running out patterns. The Pats TEs need to be incorporated more into the quick hit routes. When Watson was asked to run screens, he did well at it. When was the last time the Pats called a screen to a TE?

Another receiver, be it a TE or a WR, who can run the routes over the middle as well as the longer routes, is what is needed. If its a TE, great, but it doesn't have to be. The reality is that the Pats, even when they were running 2 TE sets, weren't using the TE in the receiving game much. And that trend has continued.

 

[DaBruinz]

Nick Kaczur is quick which is more suited for Tackle...he's not very Big or strong at the Point of Attack to battle Big Agile DT's in the trenches. Mankins is built like a tank and Neal is as strong as they come...Kaczur is neither. So we can knock off that talk about moving him inside because i don't think we'll ever see that happen.

I guess you never let facts get in the way of your arguments, do you?

Kaczur is 6'4.5 and 315 lbs. Compared to Neal who is 6'4 and 305 and Mankins who is 6'4 and 310. Do you know their BF% to know that Mankins is built like a tank in comparison to Kaczur? Do you know that Neal is actually stronger than Kaczur? What is your basis for making the statements?

What's your basis for saying that Kaczur couldn't work in the trenches against DTs, now, since we know he's actually taller than Mankins, and I believe he's taller than Neal as well and has more build than either Mankins or Neal?

One of the big plusses about Kaczur coming out of college was his agility and that would be of good use against these "agile" DTs

 

[mgteich]

I agree that we are all but set at OT. Dante is satisfied with Light and Kaczur, even we aren't. And Levior has already passed Britt to become the gameday swing tackle. We could tender Britt if we are not sure of O'Callaghan's health. I expect this to happen, rather than using a draft pick for competition.

Please read three times: we have no guards beyond this coming year. To me, this is an issue. We carry five interior linemen. One needs to be a veteran backup at guard and center. At very least, we need to re-sign Hochstein and sign a prospect or two to press Yates and Connolly for the last spot. Belichick has used a range of draft picks and UDFA's to find the prospects for Dante's Academy.

We could bring in a project OT with the idea of he and Kaczur playing RT and RG in 2010. It seems much more straightforward to simply find Neal's replacment at RG.

I'm not sure CB or OG make the Day One shopping list.
-- I had OL as a Day One need in September before Neal came back and turned the O-line around. Projecting Light, Kaczur, LeVoir, and O'Callaghan as the 2009 OTs. Mankins, Neal, Hochstein, Connolly, Koppin as the interior OL. I can see using a Day One pick on an OT who could push Kaczur or LeVoir inside, but you can find some quality OG/OC types projected for Rds 3 & 4, a better value with Neal signed.
-- I still have CB as a BPV (best Patriot value) for Day One and "need" for Day Two. Projecting Hobbs, Wheatley, Wilhite, Richardson, & Lewis Sanders for 2009. If someone like Cincinnati's Mike Mickens or Wake Forest's Alphonso Smith was the highest ranking player when the Pats pick in Rds one or two, then I'm cool, but someone like Cincinnati's DeAngelo Smith, Central Florida's Joe Burnett, and San Jose State's Christopher Owen are all decent values sporting Day Two grades.
-- TE, what can we say. Perhaps Thomas will revert to his rookie season's promise with a healthy offseason program. Watson will be more effective with Tommy - he and Mattyice are just not fully in-sync yet - though Ben has never had the consistency as a receiver or blocker that we've wanted to see from him. DeVree is inexpensive as a UDFA, he's obviously doing something the coaches like because they keep bringing him back and surprised people by activating him over Thomas in Seattle. There are a couple Day One TEs who might be worth the trouble, though I'd probably go in another direction at this point.