Needs Analysis: Linebacker

[DaBruinz]

I will be honest. Unless the pictures of Cushing floating around the net are bogus, he's not going to be on the Pats radar because of previous steroid use. I don't think the Pats want to deal with that.

That being said, could the Pats draft a LB in the 1st 3 rounds? Yep. Anything is possible. But much of it will depend on the development of Redd and Crable. If the Pats like Crable's development and Redd's development, then I can see then sticking with them. Unless, the players in the draft have a score 10 points or more higher than Redd or Crable. I don't think the Pats are going to draft a guy who is only a point or two better in their eyes.

 

[BradyManny]

I will be honest. Unless the pictures of Cushing floating around the net are bogus, he's not going to be on the Pats radar because of previous steroid use. I don't think the Pats want to deal with that.

Yeah, true, they will def have to do their due diligence on that one.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

You do realize, of course, that by making this statement, you've now created a scenario where it doesn't happen?

I think he is spot on. Unless Mangini or the legandary BP pulls a fast one,I think mathews is with us next season.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I think he is spot on. Unless Mangini or the legandary BP pulls a fast one,I think mathews is with us next season.

:idontgetit: I'm not saying anything about Matthews one way or the other; I'm just trying to understand why you both think it's so likely.

 

[Metaphors]

:idontgetit: I'm not saying anything about Matthews one way or the other; I'm just trying to understand why you both think it's so likely.

Has nothing to do with Matthews as a player, though he actually has gotten some meaning snaps this year in the regular D at USC. Belichick likes to collect NFL legacies (Klecko, Slater) and his dad played for Belichick during his gig as the HCCB (though that was when Matthews' best years were behind him).

Not being overly serious but wouldn't be surprised if it did happen.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Pierre Woods says "HI".
Define priority. Do you mean it as a MUST HAVE in the 1st round regardless of the cost? Or do you mean, somewhere in the top 3 rounds?

Honestly, I don't see the Pats drafting an high round OLB unless they've wiffed on brining in someone AND have parted ways with either Thomas, Vrabel or Woods.

Also, I wouldn't count out either Crable or Vince Redd as potential starters. People on this board don't like to be reminded of history, but I am going to do so again. Adalius Thomas played in only 3 games his rookie year. In his 2nd year, he played in 16, but only started in 3. Even in his 3rd year, Thomas only started 12 of 16. Redd and/or Crable could make advancements and follow the same hard working path that Thomas did. Only time will tell.

Not overlooking Woods or Redd but neither have yet shown that they are either being used regularly or getting to the passer consistently. I hope you're not saying that a Demarcus Ware type of OLB wouldn't upgrade this defense a whole notch higher, because I doubt you're that disingeneous.

Getting pressure on the QB is one ingredient that has been missing from this defense for a while now, arguably ever since we let Mcginest walk. The Pats have a pretty strong nucleus at LB, but they could stand to improve in the pass rush department. In a 3-4, OLB is the obvious position to look for that pressure guy.

One person asked, does this OLB need to be a 1st round pick. Answer - not necessarily. I'm sure there will probably be a couple of good ones that can be found in say rounds 2, 3, or even 4. But the odds go down and the Pats will really need to do their homework to find him. Once the college season is over, the scouting reports are in, and the combine results are in, we can make a lot better judgment on who would desirable to fit this need.

 

[Seneschal2]

You had BB at "tight end."

:wha:

 

[VJCPatriot]

:wha:

Jerry Mcguire reference... that's the only hint i'm giving.

 

[DaBruinz]

Not overlooking Woods or Redd but neither have yet shown that they are either being used regularly or getting to the passer consistently. I hope you're not saying that a Demarcus Ware type of OLB wouldn't upgrade this defense a whole notch higher, because I doubt you're that disingeneous.

Getting pressure on the QB is one ingredient that has been missing from this defense for a while now, arguably ever since we let Mcginest walk. The Pats have a pretty strong nucleus at LB, but they could stand to improve in the pass rush department. In a 3-4, OLB is the obvious position to look for that pressure guy.

One person asked, does this OLB need to be a 1st round pick. Answer - not necessarily. I'm sure there will probably be a couple of good ones that can be found in say rounds 2, 3, or even 4. But the odds go down and the Pats will really need to do their homework to find him. Once the college season is over, the scouting reports are in, and the combine results are in, we can make a lot better judgment on who would desirable to fit this need.

Go back and look at your history. Particularly that of Adalius Thomas. Then come talk about this.

 

[BradyManny]

One person asked, does this OLB need to be a 1st round pick. Answer - not necessarily.

But if you're going to upgrade over Crable and Redd - and understanding that no draft pick is a sure thing - you're going to go with a guy with higher upside...to me, that's gotta be Day 1. Redd and Crable already have added to their value by experiencing a year in the Patriots organization, so whoever they add in 08 will be at that disadvantage when it comes to allocating roster spots.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Question - is Clay Matthews for real. This linebacker out of USC has been performing very well lately. He hadn't really been on the radar at the beginning of the year but he's certainly emerging. Positives: Size, experience, bloodlines. 6'3 245 lbs. Related to the one of the best linebackers of all time, Clay Matthews who played for the Browns. Clay Matthews

Here's another article that discusses Matthews' family athletic accomplishments.
ESPN.com: NFL - Matthews part of amazing football family

Here's a scouting report on Clay Matthews:
Clay Jr. Matthews Scouting Report - 2009 NFL Draft Prospect

"He is a blue-collar defensive end / outside linebacker prospect. Matthews is a strong player with decent speed. He is a very crafty player -- much like his under-sized and not as fast as many teammates --, yet he remains productive."

Here's another scouting report:

Clay Matthews | Southern Cal, OLB : 2009 NFL Draft Scout Player Profile

"We're hearing from NFL scouts that defensive end Clay Matthews is already making himself a first-day draft pick based on his fast start. - Scott Wolf, LA Times/Inside USC"

 

[mgteich]

And now there is Robertson, our #12. I don't see us drafting a LB in the first four rounds, although a tweener DE/OLB is always a possibility. I expect that we will pay Woods $2.2M to stay for a year under an RFA tender, even if we don't sign a new contract. That gives us three experienced players inside and out while we see what we have in the kids that haven't played yet: Crable, Redd, Ruud, Robertson.

We may also keep Alexander or Izzo but that is a ST issue not a LB issue.

Continuing on with the series...I move onto the position that was considered such a need going into the April draft, and between Mayo, Guyton, Redd, Ruud & Crable, not to mention the progress of Woods, it seems the team may have settled that issue, to say the least. As you'll see, I don't really see LB as an area of need, and think all its need can be filled with players that are on the roster or PS...


LINEBACKERS (11), 6 signed, 5 unsigned

OLB - Thomas (2011)
OLB - Vrabel (2009)
ILB - Mayo (2012)
ILB - Guyton (2009)
ILB - Bruschi (2009)
OLB - Crable (2011)


FA
OLB - Woods (RFA)
ILB - Alexander (RFA)
LB - Izzo

Practice Squad
OLB - Redd
ILB - Ruud

LOCKS (6):
Thomas, Vrabel and Crable are locks on the outside. Mayo and Guyton are locks inside, with Bruschi a lock providing he returns for another season.

SPOTS UP FOR GRAB (3):
1) Backup OLB/situational pass rusher and or long term replacement for Vrabel 2) Versatile ILB, who can fill in and or rotate at WILB & SILB 3) Depth at either position, but with the ability to contribute on ST

CURRENT COMPETITION FOR OPEN SPOTS (5):
- Woods has shown he can be the 3rd OLB on the roster, and has been a consistent contributor on ST. He would be worth retaining if the price is right
- Redd is a very intriguing prospect on the practice squad. It will be interesting to see how much he progressed, he will have the opportunity to compete for a roster spot.
- Izzo is a leader on ST, and until a player demonstrate they can replace him in that regard, he will likely have a spot. Ideally, another younger player can do his job on ST and provide more upside as a contributor on defense.
- Ruud is spending the year on IR and seems to be unlikely to beat out the competition for a roster spot.
- Alexander has been a great ST player, but has little upside on defense and can probably be replaced via the draft, doubtful he will be re-signed.


PLAN OF ACTION VIA DRAFT/FREE AGENCY:
- This position seems to be in good shape short term and long term. The team will likely grab another ILB to bring into the mix with Mayo & Guyton, presumably anywhere in the draft where they can find good value.
- Hopefully between Crable, Redd & Woods (RFA), they have a potential long term replacement for Vrabel. If they see a player with greater upside or potential, likely during Day 1 of the draft, they could take that player. Otherwise, and especially if Woods is brought back, OLB is not a need.

Bottom Line: 2-3 players needed, all which could come internally. They could add another player via the draft at ILB, but OLB will only be augmented if a) Woods is not resigned b) a high upside 3-4 OLB presents itself in the draft. If Izzo does not return, look for the ST position to be filled internally first, but the team could spend some Day 2 picks and UDFA taking flyers on either LB position.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

And now there is Robertson, our #12. I don't see us drafting a LB in the first four rounds, although a tweener DE/OLB is always a possibility. I expect that we will pay Woods $2.2M to stay for a year under an RFA tender, even if we don't sign a new contract. That gives us three experienced players inside and out while we see what we have in the kids that haven't played yet: Crable, Redd, Ruud, Robertson.

We may also keep Alexander or Izzo but that is a ST issue not a LB issue.

I like the idea of keeping Woods, but I am not sold on Redd, Ruud, Robertson or even Crable.

In the 2010 draft, I exspcet to see BB pulling out all the stops to get his hands on ILB Ro McClain of Alabama, so I do not see us drafting another ILB in this draft.

The pressing need, with or without Woods, is for an OLB pass rushing demon off the edge and I don't see any in this draft class unless BB projects some of the lighter and more athletic DE's as an OLB.

 

[mgteich]

I am not sold on the four either. However, we seem set for 2009 with six solid linebackers, three inside and three outside.

I like the idea of keeping Woods, but I am not sold on Redd, Ruud, Robertson or even Crable.

In the 2010 draft, I exspcet to see BB pulling out all the stops to get his hands on ILB Ro McClain of Alabama, so I do not see us drafting another ILB in this draft.

The pressing need, with or without Woods, is for an OLB pass rushing demon off the edge and I don't see any in this draft class unless BB projects some of the lighter and more athletic DE's as an OLB.

 

[BradyManny]

And now there is Robertson, our #12. I don't see us drafting a LB in the first four rounds, although a tweener DE/OLB is always a possibility. I expect that we will pay Woods $2.2M to stay for a year under an RFA tender, even if we don't sign a new contract. That gives us three experienced players inside and out while we see what we have in the kids that haven't played yet: Crable, Redd, Ruud, Robertson.

We may also keep Alexander or Izzo but that is a ST issue not a LB issue.

Personally, I think its time for these kids to push Alexander and Izzo off the team, but its up to them. We can only stash so many developmental players on the PS.

Woods @ 2.2 works for me.

The Robertson signing reinforces that the only way we're going to see any picks taken at OLB is if its early - they have enough prospects in the pipeline, no real point in taking an OLB in rounds 4-7 as they'd either push a young prospect with some experience in the system out, or not make it in.

 

[BradyManny]

The pressing need, with or without Woods, is for an OLB pass rushing demon off the edge and I don't see any in this draft class unless BB projects some of the lighter and more athletic DE's as an OLB.

Thoughts on Selvie/Orakpo/Stintim?

Cushing's versatility sounds like a good fit w the pats.

 

[cstjohn17]

Good article on Pass Rushers

ESPN - Draft Buzz: Everette Brown and Brian Orakpo among top five pass-rushers

 

[satz]

No OLB is going to effective in the current system . the coverage is so bad we are rushing 3 or 4 so no matter who the guy is it will be very tough for him to take on 2 blocker and penerate before Qb can get rid of the ball.

unless CB improves no matter who they draft unless you can rush 4-5 and give a little coverage nothing is going to happen.

more alarming stat is in 3rd down we rush 2 DL and 1 LB and drop 7 into coverage to no use. unless some one can see a player can beat 2 300LB OL and get to QB we will have issues.
if we can just rush 5 like pittsburg we will be bad.

vrabel or AD has been asked to drop into coverage alot this year due our bad CB. it is even worse as once he went down vrabel gets rotated both sides and gets chipped or double blocked easily.

 

[VJCPatriot]

No OLB is going to effective in the current system.

I have a problem with the 'it's just not going to work anyway' so don't bother fixing it attitude. You don't know that the scheme won't work better if you plug in better players. Common sense says, usually it does.

I also happen to know that good pressure up front can hide a lot of weaknesses in the secondary. The Pats have been unable to produce consistent pressure on the QB this season. What position in the 3-4 can provide the most pressure? That's usually the outside linebackers.

The secondary needs improvement too, but a great pass rusher can disguise a lot of those problems. I would say that adding a great OLB to pressure the QB is the 1st priority. Then we can look at SS/CB and OG which are also issues but to a lesser extent imo.

 

[woolster22]

OG? Matt Light wont be getting any faster with age...how bout an ot and slide kaczur to rg? Mankins is one bad mutha...