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Schefter: Raiders on the verge of releasing CB Hall (merged)


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First of all, I love the fact that the Raiders can't do anything right. By releasing him, they admit that they made a bad move and want to move past it by letting him go.

Second, I don't think the Pats would/should be interested in him. O'Neal is just as much the liability that Hall is, minus the attitude. On top of that, at least O'Neal was good enough in the past to have made a couple pro-bowls (2 I think).

Third, I think Hall can be effective in the league despite the fact that he was a disappointment with the Raiders. I didn't think they were using him properly before and I heard rumors that Al Davis likes to have his corners play man defense. Clearly, Hall needed help over the top. His ball skills are very decent and his speed is undeniable. His attitude provides a huge question mark. I would rather see him do better with another team than create problems with the Patriots.
 
If, that's a big if Hall were were to get signed here, I don't think attitude would be something to worry about. There's too many players in the locker room who would keep it in check.
 
Normally, I'd want nothing to do with this guy, but the cornerback position is bad enough for us that I wouldn't be against seeing him be at least brought in. I'm sure that Moss could give him a pretty awesome pitch. He'd have to be willing to come in at a bargain basement price like Moss did, though (way less than Moss took, since he's maybe half the player Moss is).

Yah, and right after that Ty Law will sign here for the vet minimum :rolleyes:
 
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Never happen, but you have to laugh at the thought of him coming here and living up to the hype. They'd have to engrave that sh!t on Al Davis' tomb-stone.
 
Don't give me a cornerback who can't tackle because I can't use him.

Or something like that. It fits Hall.
 
Don't give me a cornerback who can't tackle because I can't use him.

Or something like that. It fits Hall.

He's just bad. I mean the Falcons let him go because he was not performing and he was a cancer. Oakland is going to let him go because he can't perform.

I watched the game on Sunday (Falcons) with a few buddies and we watched Hall get burned play after play - He has tackles because everyone knows you can throw his way. The best corners in the league are the guys you never hear about (other than INT's) - you hear about Hall all the time, he's 4th on the team in tackles.

He had 8 tackles in the Atlanta Game, he did not get those because he's a great cover player - He got those because teams know they can exploit him for the fraud that he is.
 
It's hard to think that we shouldn't at least be looking at him. We need help there without a doubt, and there can't be too much risk in taking a look at him. Particularly when our defensive backs are dropping like flies and we were already thin at CB. In all honesty, who has performed at Oakland other than Asomugha?
 
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Al's old and senile. Maybe he'll accidentally release Asomugha and no other team will notice...
 
No, if he passes through waivers, he's off the team. they don't pay him another dime. they are still on the hook for his signing bonus under the cap, however.

If he makes it through waivers, he's a free agent -free to sign with any team, for any amount.

Not quite. If he passes through waivers they remain on the hook for the balance of his 2008 salary because it was guaranteed to him as a vested veteran on a roster on day 1 of week 1 of the season. His cap hit for 2008 remains the same but any signing bonus that was spread over the next 4 years of his deal accelerates to hit their 2009 cap.

If any team picks him up on waivers they rather than Al are on the hook for the balance of his 2008 salary as well as bound by the terms of his existing contract. Where it gets dicey is not knowing the details of his Oakland deal (although obviously any team making a waiver claim would have access to that information as part of the process).

If he has $16M in additional guarantees those come with the deal which is why PFT is saying a waiver claim is unlikely unless a team is willing to assume that. If he's cut the Raiders may still be on the hook for some or all of that depending on contract language (was that amount really guaranteed or just implicitly guaranteed...which is the equivalent of likely or spin). And if the amount only represented injury based guaranteed language then the only team who would be risking assuming that would be the one claiming him off waivers - because if he blows an ACL or some such on your dime you're then on the hook for upwards of $16M whether he ever plays for you again or not.

We would never put a waiver claim in on him for that reason alone - we wouldn't guarantee that much money to Asante and he was the devil we knew. The only way we would put in a claim is if there really wasn't much if any truly "guaranteed" money we could be on the hook for beyond his remaining 2008 salary.


For the record (and for Jeff) the NFL doesn't have revocable as well as irrevocable waivers like MLB. You can't dangle a player and then rescind the waiver if someone shows interest or use waivers to send a player a message. Once an NFL player hits waivers he is 24 hours away from being an UFA free to sign with any team on any terms. The team who waived him remains responsible for his signing bonus on their cap and if he was a vested veteran they have to pay him the balance of his current year's salary whether he signs with someone else after clearing waivers or not. How much if anything else the team who waived him remains on the hook for depends on any guaranteed language in his individual contract. If there is anything guaranteed in his contract it would bind any team who claims him off waivers as well. NFL players do not sign a standard contract - they are free to agree to any individual terms that don't violate the CBA. So unless you see his specific deal in print you can't know what he's actually guaranteed (or not).
 
It's hard to think that we shouldn't at least be looking at him. We need help there without a doubt, and there can't be too much risk in taking a look at him. Particularly when our defensive backs are dropping like flies and we were already thin at CB. In all honesty, who has performed at Oakland other than Asomugha?

Well, There's no way we pay him his current contract, it's Banana's.

So he would have to clear waivers and then he would have to want to come here and play - Let's hope none of that happens.
 
Not quite. If he passes through waivers they remain on the hook for the balance of his 2008 salary because it was guaranteed to him as a vested veteran on a roster on day 1 of week 1 of the season. His cap hit for 2008 remains the same but any signing bonus that was spread over the next 4 years of his deal accelerates to hit their 2009 cap.

If any team picks him up on waivers they rather than Al are on the hook for the balance of his 2008 salary as well as bound by the terms of his existing contract. Where it gets dicey is not knowing the details of his Oakland deal (although obviously any team making a waiver claim would have access to that information as part of the process).

If he has $16M in additional guarantees those come with the deal which is why PFT is saying a waiver claim is unlikely unless a team is willing to assume that. If he's cut the Raiders may still be on the hook for some or all of that depending on contract language (was that amount really guaranteed or just implicitly guaranteed...which is the equivalent of likely or spin). And if the amount only represented injury based guaranteed language then the only team who would be risking assuming that would be the one claiming him off waivers - because if he blows an ACL or some such on your dime you're then on the hook for upwards of $16M whether he ever plays for you again or not.

We would never put a waiver claim in on him for that reason alone - we wouldn't guarantee that much money to Asante and he was the devil we knew. The only way we would put in a claim is if there really wasn't much if any truly "guaranteed" money we could be on the hook for beyond his remaining 2008 salary.


For the record (and for Jeff) the NFL doesn't have revocable as well as irrevocable waivers like MLB. You can't dangle a player and then rescind the waiver if someone shows interest or use waivers to send a player a message. Once an NFL player hits waivers he is 24 hours away from being an UFA free to sign with any team on any terms. The team who waived him remains responsible for his signing bonus on their cap and if he was a vested veteran they have to pay him the balance of his current year's salary whether he signs with someone else after clearing waivers or not. How much if anything else the team who waived him remains on the hook for depends on any guaranteed language in his individual contract. If there is anything guaranteed in his contract it would bind any team who claims him off waivers as well. NFL players do not sign a standard contract - they are free to agree to any individual terms that don't violate the CBA. So unless you see his specific deal in print you can't know what he's actually guaranteed (or not).

I was with you 100% and was so impressed with your knowledge of the game until this: "he is 24 hours away from being an UFA free" :)
 
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Even though he has some talent (overrated though it may be), the thing that makes me nervous about Hall is chemistry. It took us a good six weeks to really rally around Cassel and gel as a team after Brady's injury. We're finally playing like we think we can, and playing well as a team.

The only things that can screw that up are more injuries (god forbid) or signing a player who thinks he's bigger than the team.

Maybe Hall can be reformed, maybe he can't. I'm not sure it's worth the risk at this point.
 
Well, There's no way we pay him his current contract, it's Banana's.

So he would have to clear waivers and then he would have to want to come here and play - Let's hope none of that happens.

Agreed with the first part. If he clears waivers, no harm in bringing him in for a work out. Still, I think Law would be a better band-aid.
 
from what i have heard of hall,he is a piece of poopy. we dont need him
 
The original article on ESPN also mentioned the possibility that Mike Huff, Ronald Curry, and Kwame Harris could be cut. I thought it would be interesting to look at the scouting reports(ESPN) for these players. For comparison purposes, I included a scouting report on a Pats player at the same position.

Based solely on these reports, Hall & Huff would be upgrades over Hobbs/ONeal and Sanders/Merriweather and would further increase the team spead. Hall has some personality issues but I haven't heard any complaints about Huff. They were both very high draft picks that have shown ability. Obviously they would not be cut if there weren't issues with them but BB has a histroy of converting other teams unwanted/underperforming players. While I would welcome either pickup, I think it would be nice to have the spead/athleticism of Huff & Merriweather in our secondary- both can cover slot WRs so it would bring flexibility to BB/Peas.

Wouldn't it be great to win the super bowl with Randy Moss, Lamont Jordan, Mike Huff & DeAngello Hall- Al Davis would sh!t himself.

Now let's get the the scouting reports I promissed.

DeAngello Hall (5-10 195; Pos=CB; Age=24; Exp=5yrs)
Grade=83

Comment: Hall started 15-of-16 games last year. He's a very good athlete with adequate size. He's a quick-twitch athlete who can flip his hips and accelerate extremely well. He has a rare burst in his movements with very good confidence in his recovery skills. If he misses a jam, he does not stay in a trail position very long. He does an excellent job of mirroring all types of routes. He has the ability to maintain leverage on receivers downfield with some suddenness to undercut routes at the break points. He's very smooth with his speed turns and flips. He also has good solid route recognition and ball skills. He has very good ball awareness with good timing on his reach to break up or intercept passes. He has a knack for reading a receivers' body reaction with his back to the quarterback. Hall has long arms for his size and good vertical leaping ability to go up and adjust. When he's playing off he will often open his hips early. He doesn't stay in his pedal very long and he has had some trouble versus quick outs and hitches. He also has a tendency to bite on double moves because he is so aggressive. However, he has excellent reactions to screens and check downs. He closes hard and fast off his plant and drive. As a tackler, he doesn't always wrap up, but is an effective block tackler who can take out a runners' legs quickly with surprising closing quickness.

Ellis Hobbs (5-9 195; Pos=CB; Age=25; Exp=4yrs)
Grade=69

Comment: Hobbs is a short, well-built player with good athletic skills and excellent toughness. He is a fierce competitor who plays bigger than his listed size. Despite his size, he has been a durable defender and consistent performer. Ellis is an aggressive run defender who will throw his body around and insert in piles. He has deceptive pop and power when tackling as well as a strong upper body to ward off blockers. Larger backs and receivers can exploit his size, but for the most part Ellis is physical enough to be an effective perimeter defender. He is an active defending the pass and gets his hands on lots of balls. He has great vision and anticipation jump break points in zone coverage. He does a nice job leveraging the ball and takes proper angles when closing to the play. He has good foot agility, quickness and balance to transition well out of his pedal. He maintains excellent body position while in his pedal as well as redirecting to plant. Hobbs doesn't have outstanding pure speed to match up well in pure man coverage, but can be effective in combination man and zone schemes. He has been a solid kick returner for the Patriots' special teams and has marked up two long touchdowns in his first three seasons in the league.


Mike Huff (6-1 205; Pos=FS; Age=25; Exp=3yrs)
Grade=71

Comment: Huff is a good combination of size, strength and athleticism. He has been an impressive run-support player filling the alley. He has good pop and power on contact. He wraps effectively when tackling. He runs well and shows excellent range for the safety position. Huff plays with a great motor and is consistent with his effort and toughness in every contest. He reacts quickly and is a very instinctive player for such a young player. He uses his hands well to stay clean to get to the pile. He understands angles and leverage in pursuit. He is quick to jump routes and gets his hands on a bunch of balls. He has great foot agility, lateral quickness and speed, which enable him to match up well in man-coverage schemes. Huff brings attitude, toughness and athleticism to the Raiders' defense and should continue to develop in the coming seasons.

Brandon Merriweather (5-11 200; Pos=FS; Age=24; Exp=2yrs)
Grade=69

Comment: On a very talented football team, this former first-round selection has done little to distinguish himself to this point. However, Merriweather is a talented and versatile young player who is primed for a breakout performance. He has lined up all over the secondary, but free safety is his best position and he should settle in at that role in the near future. Merriweather has sufficient height, but doesn't have a particularly thick or powerful body. He is a supple athlete with explosive traits, excellent change of directional skills and great quickness to go along with good speed to cover the deep middle. He is capable of walking up to the line of scrimmage and covering the slot receiver and is also capable of acting as more of an in the box type for limited snaps. He is tough and unafraid to insert himself against bigger players in the run game. He has very good range and improving field awareness at this level. That awareness should only improve. He is a hard worker who competes and plays with a good motor. He also has soft hands and decent ball skills to secure the interception. While unproven, there is a lot to like about Merriweather's upside in this league. There were some character concerns with him coming out of college, but hasn't done anything off the field since to enhance those questions.

James Sanders (5-10 210; Pos=FS; Age=24; Exp=4yrs)
Grade=66

Comment: Sanders is a three-year veteran who is coming off his best season of his career. He grabbed the starting role in 2007 and performed well in the Patriots' secondary. He is a short, well-built player with above-average athletic ability. He has improved his overall reads and reactions from the safety position. He leverages the ball well as a run-support player and shows good range when filling the alley. He has good vision and instincts to react quickly off the hash or when he drops down in the box. He has become more physical as a tackler and has shown strength and power in block protection. He doesn't have outstanding speed and burst as a coverage defender, but shows enough agility and short-area quickness to be effective in combination-zone coverages. He can be exploited in pure man schemes and rarely has to execute those responsibilities. His intelligence and instincts enable him to be effective in a variety of schemes. Sanders is also a solid special teams contributor.


Ronald Curry (6-2 210; Pos=WR; Age=29; Exp=7yrs)
Grade=69

Comment: Curry appears to have made the transition from quarterback to wide receiver after six years in the NFL. He has a lot of natural skills, but is just now learning how to use them as a wide receiver as opposed to as a quarterback. He is explosive off the line of scrimmage and has enough deep speed to stretch the secondary down the seam. He is starting to show the ability to alter his speed to throw off the timing of defenders as they try to match his speed. But, he still needs work on developing a top-end gear to pull away from pursuit. He is a natural when it comes to catching the ball with his soft hands and can reach out to pluck the ball away from his body. He still needs some work on reaching down to catch low passes as opposed to sliding to the ground to make the catch. He has a tendency to stay with his route rather than break it off when the quarterback gets pressured. He can be inconsistent when it comes to adjusting his route to match the coverage. He looks more comfortable running his routes versus man coverage than he does versus zone coverage. He would probably look more comfortable in a situation where he is the No. 2 than the No. 1.

Jabar Gaffney (6-1 200; Pos=WR; Age=27; Exp=7yrs)
Grade=63

Comment: Gaffney is a six-year veteran who was acquired in 2006 to give depth to an unimpressive receiving corps. He has good size and athleticism, but is not an explosive target in the Patriots' air attack. He bounced back in 2007 with a solid year in the shadows of Randy Moss, Wes Welker and Donte' Stallworth. He has been a consistent receiver most of his career and could possibly start for several other franchises. Gaffney is a good route runner with good quickness and agility in and out of his stems. He has decent strength to work away from press coverage or separate from defenders at break points. He has good instincts, knows how to outmaneuver defenders and understands the little nuances of the receiver position. He has great hands to extend and make the tough catch as well as good leaping ability to come down with jump balls. He has courage and concentration in traffic, but is best on the perimeter. Gaffney has value as a fourth receiver, but may find more playing time with another club. He has returned kicks in the past, but hasn't been asked to do that lately. The Patriots would like to have Gaffney back in 2008, but won't extend themselves to do so.
 
The original article on ESPN also mentioned the possibility that Mike Huff, Ronald Curry, and Kwame Harris could be cut. I thought it would be interesting to look at the scouting reports(ESPN) for these players. For comparison purposes, I included a scouting report on a Pats player at the same position.

Based solely on these reports, Hall & Huff would be upgrades over Hobbs/ONeal and Sanders/Merriweather and would further increase the team spead. Hall has some personality issues but I haven't heard any complaints about Huff. They were both very high draft picks that have shown ability. Obviously they would not be cut if there weren't issues with them but BB has a histroy of converting other teams unwanted/underperforming players. While I would welcome either pickup, I think it would be nice to have the spead/athleticism of Huff & Merriweather in our secondary- both can cover slot WRs so it would bring flexibility to BB/Peas.

Wouldn't it be great to win the super bowl with Randy Moss, Lamont Jordan, Mike Huff & DeAngello Hall- Al Davis would sh!t himself.

First off generic ESPN scouting reports do not necessarily have any relation to NEP scouting reports.

Second off, Bill does have some history of converting underperforming or potentially underutilized players, but that history is mixed and people tend to forget about the misses...

Hall is a very athletic and reportedly equally immature/selfish player who has not to date proven he can take personal responsibility for playing football seriously although it has already made him a multi-millionaire. Bill has had let some talented problem/underperforming children of his own walk for less...

The fact that Tom Dimatroff passed on this kid and commented as he did probably speaks volumes about Hall's potential redeeming value at least at this juncture...
 
Deangelo Hall to be waived by Raiders

Apparently they want to save the money to resign Asomugha. Is it worth it to take a look at Hall, or is he not someone who could help the Pats?
 
Re: Deangelo Hall to be waived by Raiders

Yes, I did. thanks. Just saw this on Sportscenter and didn't see the other thread.
 
now florio has the pats as one of a few teams interested in putting in a waiver claim on him.....2min after posting that he doubts anyone would pick up his big contract off waivers

Can't they pick him up after he clears waivers?
 
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