Official Sox/Yanks Game thread 7/25

[Wildo7]

Thanks for nothing Manny. I've been an apologist for this clown all the way up until now, but I kind of hope they don't pick up the option on him now. Sulking during a Yankees series in a pennant race is inexcusable. Eckersly was 100% right. $20 million and this guy is acting like a spoiled kid.

1. Jacoby Ellsbury, LF
2. Dustin Pedroia, 2B
3. David Ortiz, DH
4. Kevin Youkilis, 1B
5. Mike Lowell, 3B
6. J.D. Drew, RF
7. Jed Lowrie, SS
8. Jason Varitek, C
9. Coco Crisp, CF

P - Beckett

Damon DH
Jeter SS
Abreu RF
Rodriguez 3B
Giambi 1B
Cano 2B
Cabrera CF
Molina C
Gardner LF

P - Chamberlain

[Boston Boxer]

Originally Posted by Wildo7

Thanks for nothing Manny. I've been an apologist for this clown all the way up until now, but I kind of hope they don't pick up the option on him now. Sulking during a Yankees series in a pennant race is inexcusable. Eckersly was 100% right. $20 million and this guy is acting like a spoiled kid.

same thing i was thinking...what a douche bag. I say trade him to Colorado for Matt Holiday and Fuentes and be done with his ****

[SmokeShowin]

This home plate umpire blows. He's got it in for Lowell tonight. :disagreement:

[Foley]

Originally Posted by Boston Boxer

same thing i was thinking...what a douche bag. I say trade him to Colorado for Matt Holiday and Fuentes and be done with his ****

Why on earth would the Rockies trade their younger, cheaper and better OF for Manny? And thrown in their closer to boot? I'm sure Manny would love that trade too.

[Wildo7]

Originally Posted by Foley

Why on earth would the Rockies trade their younger, cheaper and better OF for Manny? And thrown in their closer to boot? I'm sure Manny would love that trade too.

younger, cheaper yes. Better? No. Are you forgetting how inflated his numbers are from playing in a phone booth in high altitude? Don't get me wrong, I like Holliday a lot, and the Rockies would never do that trade, but he's not as good as Manny.

[Foley]

His numbers are inflated by Coors (which is actually an extremely large park, so calling it a phone booth is a poor metaphor), but his road numbers are still pretty favorable to Manny's season stats.

.307/.406/.460 for Holliday on the road, .301/.402/.530 for Manny on the season. The power is down outside of Coors, but Holliday on the road has actually been slightly better than Manny at getting on base. And when you consider that he plays 18 games a season at Dodgers Stadium and Petco Park (which are the worst and 4th worst hitters parks in the majors this year), its understandable for his power to be a bit down on the road.

[Wildo7]

Originally Posted by Foley

His numbers are inflated by Coors (which is actually an extremely large park, so calling it a phone booth is a poor metaphor), but his road numbers are still pretty favorable to Manny's season stats.

.307/.406/.460 for Holliday on the road, .301/.402/.530 for Manny on the season. The power is down outside of Coors, but Holliday on the road has actually been slightly better than Manny at getting on base. And when you consider that he plays 18 games a season at Dodgers Stadium and Petco Park (which are the worst and 4th worst hitters parks in the majors this year), its understandable for his power to be a bit down on the road.

Well, if you're talking about this season alone, yes. We're still talking about Manny's .999 career OPS v. Holliday's .946 in an inflated ballpark. Other than Petco, Holliday doesn't have regular games in pitcher-friendly stadiums. Manny is more of a second half player too and hasn't had the benefit of hitting in front of Ortiz all year. Granted Drew has been stellar, but Papi he is not. Manny is a top 25 all time hitter. That being said, I'd take Holliday because hes younger, can run the bases and plays something called defense. There's no way the rockies would take on the contract and headache that comes with Manny over Holliday anyway.

[Foley]

Like I said, Dodgers Stadium has been the most pitcher friendly stadium in the majors this year.

And yes, I'm talking about this year (and in recent years), because what Manny did back in 2005 is irrelevant to a declining player. I have no doubt that Manny will go down in history as the superior player to Holliday, but right now they are comparable, and in another year or two Holliday will almost certainly be the better hitter.

And outside of just their offensive game, Manny hasn't played more than 133 games in 3 years. He's played 6 and 7 games the last two years in September. Having your cleanup hitter play single digit games in the last month of the regular season is a huge blow to the team down the stretch. Plus, Manny is still a liability defensively. Holliday is no gold glover himself, he's still the better fielder.

[Wildo7]

Originally Posted by Foley

Like I said, Dodgers Stadium has been the most pitcher friendly stadium in the majors this year.

And yes, I'm talking about this year (and in recent years), because what Manny did back in 2005 is irrelevant to a declining player. I have no doubt that Manny will go down in history as the superior player to Holliday, but right now they are comparable, and in another year or two Holliday will almost certainly be the better hitter.

And outside of just their offensive game, Manny hasn't played more than 133 games in 3 years. He's played 6 and 7 games the last two years in September. Having your cleanup hitter play single digit games in the last month of the regular season is a huge blow to the team down the stretch. Plus, Manny is still a liability defensively. Holliday is no gold glover himself, he's still the better fielder.

Manny played 152 games in 2005, then 130 in 2006 and 133 in 2007. He's in line for 150 this year. Again he's older, so Holliday is a better player going forward, but I haven't seen him start to decline yet. I'd still say that currently Manny is a better hitter. If you take away the Coors field inflated numbers. And the NL west is the worst collection of offenses in the league so the parks they play in will have pitcher-friendly numbers.

[Foley]

Hes in line for 150 because most of the time hes missed the past few seasons has been at the end of the year because he wears down, has a nagging patellar tendonitis injury, and needs a lot of time off. Hopefully this will be the first time he manages a full season since 2005.

And you don't see a decline? As you pointed out, he has a career .999OPS. He currently has a .932OPS, he had a .881OPS in 2007. His OPS has been lower than his career numbers the past two years, and it has dropped by .126 since 2006. I'm not saying that he's washed up, I'm just saying thats he's no longer the dominant hitter he was in his prime.