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Oct 25th

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Ian

Administrator
Staff member
ADMINISTRATOR
This is a complicated situation, Ian, as one persons definition of censorship is often very different from the guy he or she is standing next to. Stick to your principals and do what you think is right. I don't always agree with everything you do on this site but from where I sit, you are a pretty fair, balanced and tolerant individual.
It's tough. @Deus Irae is a good guy and I have plenty of respect for him, especially given his tenure here. I don't claim to be perfect, but this is just a difficult climate politically and with what's going on and my intention is simply to keep any of that stuff from spilling over onto the football board.
 

Joker

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
I understand how Deus feels...the past couple of seasons but especially this one has seen a flood of one sided statements on these threads meant to inflame the fanbase.All Pats fans hate McDaniels to paraphrase, that was printed here a half hour ago. As you know and most honest people will admit, what we post here is our opinion. We never besmirch the entire Patriot fanbase by making statements such as this. THAT comes from a person with an ulterior motive and it is NOT for the good of this board or us Patriots fans. This all started on the political sewer thread of the previous iteration and these people became entrenched in their position here and have now migrated that position to the football threads, IMO. I can put up with it but I refuse to not respond to their deliberate trolling.
 

Brotherblues

On the Roster
It's tough. @Deus Irae is a good guy and I have plenty of respect for him, especially given his tenure here. I don't claim to be perfect, but this is just a difficult climate politically and with what's going on and my intention is simply to keep any of that stuff from spilling over onto the football board.

As you should imo. Political baitings don't belong here. People can put a shiny lure on it and think themselves clever ("omg how can you ban this simple word?") but there's no denying there's a big pointy hook in that bait.
 

Ian

Administrator
Staff member
ADMINISTRATOR
I understand how Deus feels...the past couple of seasons but especially this one has seen a flood of one sided statements on these threads meant to inflame the fanbase.All Pats fans hate McDaniels to paraphrase, that was printed here a half hour ago. As you know and most honest people will admit, what we post here is our opinion. We never besmirch the entire Patriot fanbase by making statements such as this. THAT comes from a person with an ulterior motive and it is NOT for the good of this board or us Patriots fans. This all started on the political sewer thread of the previous iteration and these people became entrenched in their position here and have now migrated that position to the football threads, IMO. I can put up with it but I refuse to not respond to their deliberate trolling.
I'm slowly trying to clamp down on some of those as it's obviously a fine line when it comes to allowing people to post their opinions...even if I also don't agree with them. But that's obviously what the ignore function is for since even some of them have people who agree with their take and you can't have a board full of like-minded people because that also defeats the purpose.

However, that being said, obviously if someone starts beating a dead horse and repeating the same thing over and over, that's a different story and I've already dealt with some who have fallen into that category. Some are still going and the only advice I can give for those is imagine you're in a room with a group of people repeating the same argument. If it's not going your way, it's also good to change things up and move on to another topic instead of beating it into the ground ;)
 

Joker

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
I agree 100% and I never use any ignore function or put people on any ignore list...doesn't appeal to me intellectually. All I can compare the past year to here is the year the Tebow experiement commenced and we were inundated by a horde of self proclaimed "unbiased" football fans that proceeded to turn almost every relevant football thread into a referendum on Jesus and the greatness of Tebow's "winliness".When Tebow left, Remarker and Sports babe Brandy and the rest of the trolls drifted off until only Christian Cat remained, hoping to proselytize our fanbase eventually. The point was then as it is now, this is a Patriots fan message board for the discussion of Patriots football. Sure topics drift within threads but the reason we exist here is because we are Patriots fans that love OUR team. Anybody posting messages besmirching Patriots fans as "you all hate this guy or that guy" constantly is the absolute equivalent of that Tebow troll who "allowed" us to discuss the merits of HIS hero, as long as we agreed with everything he posted. I'm hoping this election will get these cretins to subside the finger pointing and broad brushing...and move on to some other forum that allows their ilk to vent their spleens to their hearts content.
 

Bill Lee

What, me worry?
PatsFans.com Supporter
I understand how Deus feels...the past couple of seasons but especially this one has seen a flood of one sided statements on these threads meant to inflame the fanbase.All Pats fans hate McDaniels to paraphrase, that was printed here a half hour ago. As you know and most honest people will admit, what we post here is our opinion. We never besmirch the entire Patriot fanbase by making statements such as this. THAT comes from a person with an ulterior motive and it is NOT for the good of this board or us Patriots fans. This all started on the political sewer thread of the previous iteration and these people became entrenched in their position here and have now migrated that position to the football threads, IMO. I can put up with it but I refuse to not respond to their deliberate trolling.
Our ability to see one sided statements is frequently determined by what side the seer is on.

Some people understand some topics are sensitive and seek to avoid confrontation, others thrive on confrontation.

You can try to have broad rules to cover cases where people aren't intentionally taunting others, but then we end up with trolls that use dog whistles that sound innocent at one level but they know trigger others.

I think a large majority of people are entrenched in their positions, so the only real workable approach is to ban politics from the football board.

Otherwise a large percentage of stuff gets cast into political lights and we end up very polarized and very angry and largely lose track of the idea that the forum exists to discuss football.
 

Bill Lee

What, me worry?
PatsFans.com Supporter
I agree 100% and I never use any ignore function or put people on any ignore list...doesn't appeal to me intellectually. All I can compare the past year to here is the year the Tebow experiement commenced and we were inundated by a horde of self proclaimed "unbiased" football fans that proceeded to turn almost every relevant football thread into a referendum on Jesus and the greatness of Tebow's "winliness".When Tebow left, Remarker and Sports babe Brandy and the rest of the trolls drifted off until only Christian Cat remained, hoping to proselytize our fanbase eventually. The point was then as it is now, this is a Patriots fan message board for the discussion of Patriots football. Sure topics drift within threads but the reason we exist here is because we are Patriots fans that love OUR team. Anybody posting messages besmirching Patriots fans as "you all hate this guy or that guy" constantly is the absolute equivalent of that Tebow troll who "allowed" us to discuss the merits of HIS hero, as long as we agreed with everything he posted. I'm hoping this election will get these cretins to subside the finger pointing and broad brushing...and move on to some other forum that allows their ilk to vent their spleens to their hearts content.
You're a better man than me, the ignore list is one function most forums have and it gets used a lot.

I for one didn't miss one argumentative post (his name may ring a bell) who recently left and others for the simple reason that they're already on my ignore list.

I agree on the Tebow thing.
 

sturmrider

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
It's tough. @Deus Irae is a good guy and I have plenty of respect for him, especially given his tenure here. I don't claim to be perfect, but this is just a difficult climate politically and with what's going on and my intention is simply to keep any of that stuff from spilling over onto the football board.

I agree with you Ian on many things on the board including this. In my house I have a simple rule no discussing politics or religion. I have seen it break up a marriage and a number of friendships including one where the name calling got to the point of claiming others involved were Nazis. I knew all of the people and none fit that just had different point of views.

In today's world we just can't seem to compromise it is my way or the highway. I am afraid of the world I am leaving behind for my son. It is not pretty.
 

JarOfMayo51

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
In today's world we just can't seem to compromise it is my way or the highway. I am afraid of the world I am leaving behind for my son. It is not pretty.

Yea, this has really weighed on me now that I have an 18 month old

We're more divided and angry than I can remember in my 37 years. I watch people I've known for 15+ years who are good friends and got along, just absolutely tear into each other on facebook etc, saying awful things to each other purely over their political positions

the irony is that at the end of the day, people tend to associate with 1 group or another and adopt those beliefs, but ultimately are extremely ignorant to the facts and how all of this stuff even works

Also another thing I realized, in my 37 years of being alive, I've never seen 2 people argue about politics and then walk away having learned something from each other or change their mind on anything. It just turns into a screaming match and a competition over who will "win" the argument... but sadly there are never any winners

I've told my father countless times to stop bringing up politics... its like a mental condition for him that he needs professional help with or something. He just won't EVER shut up about politics, even when he has a room full of 5 or 6 people telling him to STFU and that nobody wants to talk about any politics at all.. but he just keeps going and going... I've flat out just got up and left his house on several occassions after only being there for like 15-20 minutes, because i saw he was in his political robot mode and that we werent going to have a good night of conversation, so I just opted out of the entire evening

Politics is a disease that has infested this country and is tearing us apart from the inside out. Our enemies are smiling as it all happens too.
 

RelocatedPatFan

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
We're more divided and angry than I can remember in my 37 years. I watch people I've known for 15+ years who are good friends and got along, just absolutely tear into each other on facebook etc, saying awful things to each other purely over their political positions
I agree, but in my day to day existence I think the people who are more polarized probably consume their media in a very one sided manner. For years, I didn't follow news (as it was 90%+ always just focused on bad news) and then I started doing my own investing and followed the news. As an investor, I try to strip away emotion, look for facts and try to determine which facts are correct by using multiple sources and (gasp) critical thinking. I think people have more common ground than is represented, but the sides are definitely getting more polarized and larger than they were in the past.

For me, media is there to keep people engaged and are more likely to get that engagement by negative views rather than positive views (look at Boston media with Patriots as a perfect example of what I'm talking about and even that is generally more positive than the media with politics. I just don't think with the speed social media and the change in News organizations from a more centric approach to ones that are actively pushing an agenda that people have developed the skills to take information in and digest it. It's either ignore as wrong or accept "fact" and that can be either all media or just what people view as their viewpoint.

the irony is that at the end of the day, people tend to associate with 1 group or another and adopt those beliefs, but ultimately are extremely ignorant to the all facts and put up blockers to accepting other thoughts. It's one has to win and other have to lose. But, the hope I have is that this is really a vocal group but certainly not the majority of people. But, that smaller more vocal group is growing in size and the center isn't as sizeable as it used to be.

Alas I have no solutions, but do see some hope in my kids (older teens) though they each seem to be drawn further to one side or the other but recognize the lunacy of the extremes.
I've told my father countless times to stop bringing up politics...
Yeah, that's a no-no with my parents (and in-laws) as well. They seem to always have their news on and spew the information as if it's pure fact and seemed to have lost the ability to see reason (considering that the information might have another valid perspective). Interesting that people might be programmed by tuning into only 1 type of news. Also, seems to me at a certain age people just become locked and intractable (obviously a generalization that doesn't apply to all people).

A non-political example: Elder person driving and doesn't like that people are honking at them. Even when stated that they had about 3 feet of their car in the wrong lane, they refuse to believe it. I drive for those people every chance I can :)
 
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Mcp1982

On the Roster
I agree, but in my day to day existence I think the people who are more polarized probably consume their media in a very one sided manner. For years, I didn't follow news (as it was 90%+ always just focused on bad news) and then I started doing my own investing and followed the news. As an investor, I try to strip away emotion, look for facts and try to determine which facts are correct by using multiple sources and (gasp) critical thinking.

For me, media is there to keep people engaged and are more likely to get that engagement by negative views rather than positive views (look at Boston media with Patriots as a perfect example of what I'm talking about and even that is generally more positive than the media with politics. I just don't think with the speed social media and the change in News organizations from a more centric approach to ones that are actively pushing an agenda that people have developed the skills to take information in and digest it. It's either ignore as wrong or accept "fact" and that can be either all media or just what people view as their viewpoint.

the irony is that at the end of the day, people tend to associate with 1 group or another and adopt those beliefs, but ultimately are extremely ignorant to the all facts and put up blockers to accepting other thoughts. It's one has to win and other have to lose. But, the hope I have is that this is really a vocal group but certainly not the majority of people. But, that smaller more vocal group is growing in size and the center isn't as sizeable as it used to be.

Alas I have no solutions, but do see some hope in my kids (older teens) though they each seem to be drawn further to one side or the other but recognize the lunacy of the extremes.

Yeah, that's a no-no with my parents (and in-laws) as well. They seen to always have their news on and spew the information as if it's pure fat and seemed to have lost the ability to see reason. Interesting that people might be programmed by tuning into only 1 type of news. Also, seems to me at a certain age people just become locked and intractable (obviously a generalization that doesn't apply to all people).

A non-political example: Elder person driving and doesn't like that people are honking at them. Even when stated that they had about 3 feet of their car in the wrong lane, they refuse to believe it. I drive for those people every chance I can :)
"For years, I didn't follow news (as it was 90%+ always just focused on bad news) and then I started doing my own investing and followed the news. As an investor, I try to strip away emotion, look for facts and try to determine which facts are correct by using multiple sources and (gasp) critical thinking.:

I am an investment advisor, and have long thought the world would be a much better place if 1. Everyone got a chance to live in NYC for a year; no better way to get along with different people with different points of view and culture then to live in NYC and 2. Everyone had to manage a stock portfolio for a year. Nothing more humbling with regard to what you think and what you think you know then having to manage a portfolio of stocks!
 

One-If-By-Sea

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
I guess I am more like @Joker than I realized. o_O I have no-one on Ignore, and just want to talk football.

Since @Ian created the "alternate" forums I think he could have a quicker hook in the football forum and repost the junk, Oops insightful, posts over in the political or COVID forum discussion - opinions that are redirected to a different forum are not being ignored, criticized or muted, but being directed to where they belong. ;)

I would also remind everyone that there is a DRAFT forum too. Redirecting a lengthy "BB can not draft a CB in the 2nd round" analysis to the DRAFT forum would be appreciated too (hint to @Ian). It always amazes me how anyone can think there is another argument, about how poorly the Patriots draft, that we have not heard a 1000 times previously. Some genius is always going to think they have a new amazingly insightful perspective on how lousy the Pats are at drafting, which is fine, but I suggest those discussions belong in the DRAFT forum.
 

IllegalContact

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
Allow the adult in the room to spell it out......

IAN ALREADY PUTS UP WITH WAY TOO MUCH POOPIE

I think there are plenty of my 'opponents' who will agree with me on this one thing.

Don't like it? GFY
 

Wheelman

Pro Bowl Player
it's three particular posters who are doing all the ratting and creating all the discord...and all three of them post regularly on the political thread...and one of them is spreading lies and disagreement in this very thread. They are not really Patriot fans, they are fans of their own bloated internet egos and never hesitate to brag about how great their lives are and how tremendous their college degrees are and how great their property ownership is...it won't change until the mods ignore these crybabies.
I'm out of the loop, can you name the three posters?
 

Kdo5

Pro Bowl Player
Yea, this has really weighed on me now that I have an 18 month old

We're more divided and angry than I can remember in my 37 years. I watch people I've known for 15+ years who are good friends and got along, just absolutely tear into each other on facebook etc, saying awful things to each other purely over their political positions

the irony is that at the end of the day, people tend to associate with 1 group or another and adopt those beliefs, but ultimately are extremely ignorant to the facts and how all of this stuff even works

Also another thing I realized, in my 37 years of being alive, I've never seen 2 people argue about politics and then walk away having learned something from each other or change their mind on anything. It just turns into a screaming match and a competition over who will "win" the argument... but sadly there are never any winners

I've told my father countless times to stop bringing up politics... its like a mental condition for him that he needs professional help with or something. He just won't EVER shut up about politics, even when he has a room full of 5 or 6 people telling him to STFU and that nobody wants to talk about any politics at all.. but he just keeps going and going... I've flat out just got up and left his house on several occassions after only being there for like 15-20 minutes, because i saw he was in his political robot mode and that we werent going to have a good night of conversation, so I just opted out of the entire evening

Politics is a disease that has infested this country and is tearing us apart from the inside out. Our enemies are smiling as it all happens too.
I don’t like it either. When I visit family I shut down anything close to politics. I’ve reiterated it to my father and brother. We both stand firmly on opposite ends of the spectrum. No ones mind is being changed so why talk about it?
 

Kenneth Sims

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
Politics is not a disease; it’s the process by which self-governing people choose their leaders and the direction of their government.

The disease is self-righteousness. We’ve become a nation of Dunning-Kruger examples who just can’t deal with the reality that our understanding might be wrong or limited, so we shout down or diminish anyone who tries to present us with a different understanding or perspective. It’s just sad, and, if it doesn’t change, our republic will not survive it.
 

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