The Great Andre Branch Debate!!!

[midwestpatsfan]

I hope the title does not bring up bad memories from the Derek Wolfe thread, and I hope this thread can stay more on point, but I wanted to see everyone's thoughts on this guy.
I watched the VT vs. Clemson game last night (took forever, lot of prospects in that game) but wanted to focus on Branch for right now.

My take
Positives-off the field: Has the HT. WT. SPD. that BB seems to want from his OLB's. Was a team captain. I couldn't find anything about him getting in trouble and did find one article about how he is a weight room rat, didn't see anything about his film work ethics.

on the field- Played with his hand in the ground and upright, so he is scheme diverse. Has a good first step and explodes off the line. Stays disciplined on plays away from him, seems to not take plays off, at least in the game I saw. I think his best attribute is his lean. Mayock always loves to talk about pass rushers lean and I counted 9 plays in that game where he leaned under the O-lineman at a crazy angle and did not lose speed. On everyone of those leans he made some sort of positive play, be it a sack, a takedown in the backfield, a forced fumble. Made some nice open field tackles.

negatives: I think he sets the edge okay, but he could stand to get a little stronger at the point of attack. I only saw one play that he dropped back into coverage and he actually made the play, but he is a little stiff out there and can improve there as well. I did not see a bunch of different pass rush moves, uses more of his god given talent than technique to get to the QB, might not be as effective in the NFL without learning some technique. Did not see him against any double teams because Thompson was getting most of those so I am not sure how he would handle that against the run, not really a negative but something he may not have had to deal with in college that he could in the Pro's.

I could see him as a patriots possibility at the end of round 1 or middle of round 2 if he lasts that long, which I do not think he will.

 

[Belichicknumber1]

I dont like this kid at all he looks lost on many plays, plays small just look at video on him i would hate to see the pats take this kid another JC imo

 

[UK_Pat37]

Was hoping to see him add some weight, strength and bulk. He won't be a DE in the NFL.

Seems like he's a one trick pony to me in the sense that he constantly tries to use his speed to get around the tackle or whoever is blocking him and doesn't have the ability to bull rush, rip or swim. I remember that VT game where I saw him use his hands brilliantly on one sack to get inside of his blocker...but you don't see that very often.

Gets stood up by double teams, gets himself too high at times. Agree he shows a nice ability to lean inside and get around his block but I don't see enough consistency or strength to get off of his blocks.

Guys has nice lower body strength and nice explosion and speed but I think that's about all I like with this guy. Raw and with some work could be much better. An OLB has to set the edge and not allow anything to get outside of him and I could see him being a liability in this area.

Stiff in the hips too. Not very high on him myself but he has the motor and the speed there...refine some of his technique and he could be a nice asset.

With the right players in front of him in a 3-4 he might be dangerous.

 

[doesntmatter1]

Besides the VT game i kinda hate him. Has no power what so ever and just tries to go around tackles despite the fact he doesn't have blazing speed. I see running backs run around him often. I hate the way he defends the run more than anything. It seems like hes in decent position but just fails. I feel like hes saying "I got it" alright "I dont got it". Also, I feel the same way on how Cam Johnson defends the run.

 

[patsfaninpa]

That was the best game of his career. Not always the best judge of a player. Clemson defense gave up 410 points in 14 games. I know it's not his fault. But, lord that's a lot of points. Even if you take out the 70 WVU put up on them. That's 340 in 13(26ppg. Still not good.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

I've watched almost every single Clemson game for the past 2+ years, and I absolutely think Andre Branch has what it takes to be NEP DE/OLB.

Branch has great integrity on backside plays, stays square to the LoS against the run, has started games as a 43 outside 'backer and held up in coverage, and shows plus burst, power, discipline, and savvy as a pass-rusher. Teams almost never ran straight at him, and when they did, he showed excellent ability to string out the play toward the sidelines. If his linebackers and secondary had any ability to pursue and get off blocks, those runs would have been for minimal gain. I'm not going to downgrade him for the extremely rare missed tackle against some of the fastest and most elusive runners in college football, because he almost always got his hands on the player despite their best efforts to evade him.

He understands how to be a two-gap player, and that sets him apart from almost every other conversion prospect in recent history. Put him in a pro strength and conditioning program for a year, and I think he's got Suggs-type upside.

 

[Belichicknumber1]

I've watched almost every single Clemson game for the past 2+ years, and I absolutely think Andre Branch has what it takes to be NEP DE/OLB.

Branch has great integrity on backside plays, stays square to the LoS against the run, has started games as a 43 outside 'backer and held up in coverage, and shows plus burst, power, discipline, and savvy as a pass-rusher. Teams almost never ran straight at him, and when they did, he showed excellent ability to string out the play toward the sidelines. If his linebackers and secondary had any ability to pursue and get off blocks, those runs would have been for minimal gain. I'm not going to downgrade him for the extremely rare missed tackle against some of the fastest and most elusive runners in college football, because he almost always got his hands on the player despite their best efforts to evade him.

He understands how to be a two-gap player, and that sets him apart from almost every other conversion prospect in recent history. Put him in a pro strength and conditioning program for a year, and I think he's got Suggs-type upside.

I seen the complete opposite from the little i seen of him. He doesn't read plays fast, he gets pushed back to easy i hope the pats stay far far far far away from this guy. yuck

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I've watched almost every single Clemson game for the past 2+ years, and I absolutely think Andre Branch has what it takes to be NEP DE/OLB.

Branch has great integrity on backside plays, stays square to the LoS against the run, has started games as a 43 outside 'backer and held up in coverage, and shows plus burst, power, discipline, and savvy as a pass-rusher. Teams almost never ran straight at him, and when they did, he showed excellent ability to string out the play toward the sidelines. If his linebackers and secondary had any ability to pursue and get off blocks, those runs would have been for minimal gain. I'm not going to downgrade him for the extremely rare missed tackle against some of the fastest and most elusive runners in college football, because he almost always got his hands on the player despite their best efforts to evade him.

He understands how to be a two-gap player, and that sets him apart from almost every other conversion prospect in recent history. Put him in a pro strength and conditioning program for a year, and I think he's got Suggs-type upside.

But is he really an upgrade over the eternally slow moving Cunningham? I could be blind, but I don't see it!

 

[Defsoul]

That was the best game of his career. Not always the best judge of a player. Clemson defense gave up 410 points in 14 games. I know it's not his fault. But, lord that's a lot of points. Even if you take out the 70 WVU put up on them. That's 340 in 13(26ppg. Still not good.

Clemson had one of the worst tackling defenses I've ever seen. The games against teams with a running QB were the worst. GT, Maryland or uSC... just brutal. Clemson would probably have lost against Maryland if it wasn't for Sammy Watkins. He was a total beast that day. But back to the defense. They really struggled when playing spread or option offenses, but played really strong against teams with pro style attacks. They played their two best games against VT and also looked really good against FSU.Many fans blame Kevin Steele who never seemed to figure out how to stop the non-pro style offenses. We'll see if Brent Venables will do better.

 

[UK_Pat37]

I've watched almost every single Clemson game for the past 2+ years, and I absolutely think Andre Branch has what it takes to be NEP DE/OLB.

Branch has great integrity on backside plays, stays square to the LoS against the run, has started games as a 43 outside 'backer and held up in coverage, and shows plus burst, power, discipline, and savvy as a pass-rusher. Teams almost never ran straight at him, and when they did, he showed excellent ability to string out the play toward the sidelines. If his linebackers and secondary had any ability to pursue and get off blocks, those runs would have been for minimal gain. I'm not going to downgrade him for the extremely rare missed tackle against some of the fastest and most elusive runners in college football, because he almost always got his hands on the player despite their best efforts to evade him.

He understands how to be a two-gap player, and that sets him apart from almost every other conversion prospect in recent history. Put him in a pro strength and conditioning program for a year, and I think he's got Suggs-type upside.

You're projecting this guy to be a two gap end? Really? At 259 he is going to really struggle to set the edge and he lacks the strength to control double teams and often gets stood up at the point of attack.

Situational rusher in a 4-3 scheme and 3-4 OLB at best...and I think he's going to struggle in the NFL to start.

 

[captain stone]

But is he really an upgrade over the eternally slow moving Cunningham? I could be blind, but I don't see it!

It is almost a metaphysical impossibility for Branch - or anybody with a pulse - not to be an upgrade over the obscenely overdrafted Cunnyham.

 

[Wilfork#75]

It is almost a metaphysical impossibility for Branch - or anybody with a pulse - not to be an upgrade over the obscenely overdrafted Cunnyham.

I really hope Cunningham works on his explosion in the offseason, so he doesn't waste his time getting out the door after BB cuts his ***.

 

[Off The Grid]

It is almost a metaphysical impossibility for Branch - or anybody with a pulse - not to be an upgrade over the obscenely overdrafted Cunnyham.

Ayup.

Bill The Mad (Genius) clearly outsmarted'mself on that one.

 

[captain stone]

At the Clemson pro day, Branch stood on his #s from the combine. He did, however, perform positional drills, incl. those for 3-4 OLB. (Did anyone else notice Tubby Wrecks throwing him passes?)

Mayock & Bucky Brooks on the NFLN seem to have little doubt of Branch's ability to transition from 4-3 DE to 3-4 OLB. Unless Bill wants to risk waiting for the fast-rising Shea McClellin to still be available at 48/63, then I feel that he needs to pull the trigger on Branch, Mercilus or the slightly-falling Upshaw at 27/31, if any of them are still available.

It's (way past) time to give athletes a chance, Bill. Eff the edge-setting dinosaurs; we need QB-killers.

 

[patfanken]

Just a word of warning for those who are hoping ANY college DE can come here and have ANY early impact as a 3-4 OLB who can "set the edge", rush the passer, AND occasionally drop into coverage with any success. It took 4 years before Brushci started and 6 before he was consistently impactful. It took 5 years before Vrabel started and 7 before he was consistently impactful. It took 5 years before Ninko started, and 6 years before he been an impactful performer. Even if you go back to Willie McGinest, who was a top 10 picki. He had some nice years in the Parcells/Carroll eras, but under BB he only had ONE season where he even sniffed double digit sacks (9.5 in 2004) and never was asked to defend a pass until his 8th season in the league.

That being said, I'd love to have the Pats draft Branch, but ANYONE BB drafts at that position is years away from being an important piece of our defense. It literally takes YEARS to master that position the way BB wants it played. Any player the Pats have had play it and had some success spent long apprenticeships elsewhere. Vrabel, Ninko, Colvin, AD. to Anderson, Carter etc. NONE of the players we've drafted have EVER made an impact. (though I am one of the few who still has some hope for Jermaine Cunningham

Why would I think that would change if the Pats draft Branch.....just eternal optimism.

 

[DW Toys]

But is he really an upgrade over the eternally slow moving Cunningham? I could be blind, but I don't see it!

Cousin Jones, We need more rush but I fell into this doc. It is kind of interesting! Thoughts?

Pat Kirwan (former NFL coach and GM) has a metric that he uses in an effort to rule out these "workout warriors". When analyzing a pass rusher or defensive end, you are looking for a guy that not only gets sacks, but makes plays behind the line of scrimmage. Kirwan takes the number of TFL, add them to the sacks, and divides by the number of games played in college to calculate the number of impact plays per game. This metric below is making an attempt to find those player’s who have the ability to take their athleticism and use it to make plays behind the line of scrimmage:

Name GP TFL Sacks Plays/Game
Vinny Curry 45 49 26.5 1.68
Nick Perry 37 29.5 21.5 1.38
Quinton Coples 50 40.5 24 1.29
Whitney Mercilus 37 29 18 1.27
Jake Bequette 48 31 23.5 1.14
Cam Johnson 42 33.5 12.5 1.10
Shea McClellin 49 32 19.5 1.05
Malik Jackson 39 27.5 13 1.04
Melvin Ingram 50 30.5 21 1.03
Courtney Upshaw 53 35.5 16.5 0.98
Ronnell Lewis 34 20.5 10 0.90
Donte Paige-Moss 34 19.5 11 0.90

Some things that stand out here is the relatively low number of plays per game that were made by both Ingram and Upshaw, two of the highly touted pass rushing prospects. Granted, both players were in a very tough conference, and therefore the level of competition may have been tougher (and you could argue both players also had talented players on their teams effectively stealing their stats, but I won't). I never said this was an exact art.

However, looking at this metric in comparison to last years, it seems that the pass rushers in this year's draft had a tougher time translating their athleticism to consistently making plays on the field. Last year's draft had some standouts in that category: Aldon Smith (2.00 plays/game), Ryan Kerrigan (1.94 plays/game), JJ Watt (1.85 plays/game), and Von Miller (1.78 plays/game) all took that production in college and showed that they could make plays in the pros as well. All of those players would top the Plays/game board in this year's draft.

Of the players who tested in all events, Nick Perry appears to be the frontrunner when using the analysis above. He is the only one that fell out near the top in both categories. However, while last year's analysis led to a few pass rushers that appeared to be "sure things" with Kerrigan and Watt, I don't see the same in this year's class. Of the choices available, Nick Perry appears to be the best bet.

DW Toys

 

[manxman2601]

Cousin Jones, We need more rush but I fell into this doc. It is kind of interesting! Thoughts?

Pat Kirwan (former NFL coach and GM) has a metric that he uses in an effort to rule out these "workout warriors". When analyzing a pass rusher or defensive end, you are looking for a guy that not only gets sacks, but makes plays behind the line of scrimmage. Kirwan takes the number of TFL, add them to the sacks, and divides by the number of games played in college to calculate the number of impact plays per game. This metric below is making an attempt to find those player’s who have the ability to take their athleticism and use it to make plays behind the line of scrimmage:

Name GP TFL Sacks Plays/Game
Vinny Curry 45 49 26.5 1.68
Nick Perry 37 29.5 21.5 1.38
Quinton Coples 50 40.5 24 1.29
Whitney Mercilus 37 29 18 1.27
Jake Bequette 48 31 23.5 1.14
Cam Johnson 42 33.5 12.5 1.10
Shea McClellin 49 32 19.5 1.05
Malik Jackson 39 27.5 13 1.04
Melvin Ingram 50 30.5 21 1.03
Courtney Upshaw 53 35.5 16.5 0.98
Ronnell Lewis 34 20.5 10 0.90
Donte Paige-Moss 34 19.5 11 0.90

Some things that stand out here is the relatively low number of plays per game that were made by both Ingram and Upshaw, two of the highly touted pass rushing prospects. Granted, both players were in a very tough conference, and therefore the level of competition may have been tougher (and you could argue both players also had talented players on their teams effectively stealing their stats, but I won't). I never said this was an exact art.

However, looking at this metric in comparison to last years, it seems that the pass rushers in this year's draft had a tougher time translating their athleticism to consistently making plays on the field. Last year's draft had some standouts in that category: Aldon Smith (2.00 plays/game), Ryan Kerrigan (1.94 plays/game), JJ Watt (1.85 plays/game), and Von Miller (1.78 plays/game) all took that production in college and showed that they could make plays in the pros as well. All of those players would top the Plays/game board in this year's draft.

Of the players who tested in all events, Nick Perry appears to be the frontrunner when using the analysis above. He is the only one that fell out near the top in both categories. However, while last year's analysis led to a few pass rushers that appeared to be "sure things" with Kerrigan and Watt, I don't see the same in this year's class. Of the choices available, Nick Perry appears to be the best bet.

DW Toys

Interesting. Here's a name for you:

Frank Alexander, Oklahoma

Career Games - 48
TFL - 44
Sacks - 20.5
Plays/Game - 1.34

Puts him second on your list just behind Perry. And whilst Perry is a first rounder, Alexander can be had in the later rounds. Don't know if that means Alexander's a bargain, or that that statistic doesn't mean anything. Only time will tell.

 

[manxman2601]

Just a word of warning for those who are hoping ANY college DE can come here and have ANY early impact as a 3-4 OLB who can "set the edge", rush the passer, AND occasionally drop into coverage with any success. It took 4 years before Brushci started and 6 before he was consistently impactful. It took 5 years before Vrabel started and 7 before he was consistently impactful. It took 5 years before Ninko started, and 6 years before he been an impactful performer. Even if you go back to Willie McGinest, who was a top 10 picki. He had some nice years in the Parcells/Carroll eras, but under BB he only had ONE season where he even sniffed double digit sacks (9.5 in 2004) and never was asked to defend a pass until his 8th season in the league.

That being said, I'd love to have the Pats draft Branch, but ANYONE BB drafts at that position is years away from being an important piece of our defense. It literally takes YEARS to master that position the way BB wants it played. Any player the Pats have had play it and had some success spent long apprenticeships elsewhere. Vrabel, Ninko, Colvin, AD. to Anderson, Carter etc. NONE of the players we've drafted have EVER made an impact. (though I am one of the few who still has some hope for Jermaine Cunningham

Why would I think that would change if the Pats draft Branch.....just eternal optimism.

Doesn't this support BB not drafting an OLB too high. Would be better to draft a late round prospect and let him develop over time.

 

[everlong]

I think Branch would have to slide to 48 for them to draft him. I don't see him as a natural conversion. In watching him one thing I noticed is he comes up out of his stance before driving forward most of the time. When he drives forward off the snap staying low he nearly always has an impact on the play. The problem is it's not a high enough percentage of the time. He reminded me a little bit of Colvin so I compared their combine numbers and they were very similar with Branch having better straight line speed but Colvin doing better in the short area drills. Branch has a little bit more length and longer arms. Colvin was also a 4th rounder coming out.