RIP Vegas, Raider Nation looks to be coming to town

[Nikolai]

It's all moving towards Arena Football. The new XFL.

It kinda makes me think that somehow, the NFL brain(less) trust has identified teams as merely commodities; a football team is a football team is a football team. If there's any greater sign of a disconnect between ownership and fans, I haven't seen it.

They saw there was little hoopla about moving the Rams out of St. Louis, despite the history of their brief run as the "greatest show on turf" and figured they can start moving more iconic franchises with the same limited levels of blowback. More than that, they're moving them to questionable markets.

Ask Bettman how that kind of **** works out. The NHL was a budding golden goose in the early 1990s; maybe one of the "hottest" sports, a true up-and-comer. Moves to Phoenix, Atlanta, Miami,

 

[Hammer of Thor]

I fully agree, it is completely evil. And then the franchise furthers the insult by KEEPING the name - which is often a proud characteristic of the left-at-the-altar city/region. It's like someone stealing your wife and kids and then changing his name to yours and living on the next street.

So the State with the nickname Land of 10,000 Lakes has to deal with the insult of the Los Angeles Lakers for over 55 years.

Brooklyn, where the team and fans had to "Dodge" trolley cars to get to Ebbetts Field has to deal with the insult of the LA Dodgers.

Maryland, which is one of the epicenters of horse race breeding has to deal with the insult of the Indianapolis Colts.

I can only think of what the good folks of the French Quarter in New Orleans think of the "Utah Jazz".

I'm very glad that Cleveland was able to extract the Browns name from Modell before they left. Too bad the new team has been a clownshow and the Ravens (probably the most awesome new team name choice of my lifetime) have been so great; that continues to rub it in.

When Minnesota finally agreed to public financing for Target Field, they made the Twins sign a similar condition as part of the agreement. If the Twins ever move, their name and records stay in Minnesota. I'm against giving public money for a stadium (infrastructure is a different story), but if it has to happen, I would insist on that clause. Heck, I'd insist on it even just for the infrastructure agreement.

 

[Joey007]

Well, if any of the three moving franchises keeps its fan base, it'll be the Raiders. They've been through this before when Al moved them to LA, and currently look like they have a strong future ahead of them with their current team.


Still, the cities of Oakland and San Diego deserve teams, and they may never have teams again. Not Vegas, and LA sure as Hell doesn't need two.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

It's strange how the narrative about this is just resignation. Of the 3, the Rams and Chargers are getting crucified, while the Raiders, there seems to be much less anger/attention paid nationally. There are obviously fans who are upset, but overall, nowhere near the level of vitriol directed at far more inferior franchises.

I think there are reasons for it, from the owners involved to the stadiums involved, but still, very weird.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

It kinda makes me think that somehow, the NFL brain(less) trust has identified teams as merely commodities; a football team is a football team is a football team. If there's any greater sign of a disconnect between ownership and fans, I haven't seen it.

They saw there was little hoopla about moving the Rams out of St. Louis, despite the history of their brief run as the "greatest show on turf" and figured they can start moving more iconic franchises with the same limited levels of blowback. More than that, they're moving them to questionable markets.

Ask Bettman how that kind of **** works out. The NHL was a budding golden goose in the early 1990s; maybe one of the "hottest" sports, a true up-and-comer. Moves to Phoenix, Atlanta, Miami,

Agreed. Sometimes there are moves that have to happen. The first 1950s MLB moves were remnants of an old NL versus AL direct competition strategy that had been essentially over since the Federal League lawsuit in the 1910s. MLB should not have had 2 teams in Boston, St. Louis, and Philadephia for so long; their markets are too small for that. And at least in some of the other cases, the teams were moving to bigger potential lucrative markets.

Frankly, part of the issue here is that the Rams and Raiders should never have left LA in the 1990s to begin with. The NFL was being very short-sighted there, and it's no big surprise that 20 years later they're moving again.

 

[Nikolai]

Agreed. Sometimes there are moves that have to happen. The first 1950s MLB moves were remnants of an old NL versus AL direct competition strategy that had been essentially over since the Federal League lawsuit in the 1910s. MLB should not have had 2 teams in Boston, St. Louis, and Philadephia for so long; their markets are too small for that. And at least in some of the other cases, the teams were moving to bigger potential lucrative markets.

Right, though I think there are still a few people in New York that would quibble about the Giants and Dodgers. But, as big as NYC is, and as big a baseball town as it is, I'm just not sure four teams is realistic there.

Frankly, part of the issue here is that the Rams and Raiders should never have left LA in the 1990s to begin with. The NFL was being very short-sighted there, and it's no big surprise that 20 years later they're moving again.

Agree on the Rams, but the Raiders were making the move back. Where they ****ed up was not having a better deal in place for their return. Of course, it DID seem the Raiders had support in Los Angeles, so that was a head scratcher, which speaks to your point. Either way, it's mismanagement all around.

 

[Sfpat]

It's why Kroenke offered the Chargers such a sweetheart deal. He didn't want the Raiders back in LA. Being in Vegas may be just as bad.

 

[XLIX]

As a Brit, I will never understand the idea that franchises can just move, and to hell with the fans of the current team. It seems vile.

What do they do? They can't support a local rival as they will be natural enemies. It just seems to finish the fan's involvement with the sport.

I love the sport, but I hope that transitory system stays your side of the Atlantic

The NFL is popular enough to survive the loss of the fans in whatever community they screwed over - and that's part of the problem. Fact is most people in other cities don't care. (I know I sure won't stop supporting the Patriots over the fact that the people of Oakland are getting screwed).

In fact, the fans who are most angry are the same ones who go crawling back to the league when the opportunity comes for them to get an expansion team (or steal some other city's team).

 

[XLIX]

A smart business man (or woman) would buy into the Raiders move and build a "Raider Nation" theme park, complete with a hotel and casino, right alongside the stadium, similar to Gillette.

It's gonna be close enough for fans to come and stay the weekend to watch the games, and if Amtrak was smart, they'd run a "Raiders" themed train each weekend from Cali to LV.

That franchise, if done right, could not only turn into a quality product, but give New England, Dallas and Green Bay a run for their money as one of the richest teams in the league.

The Bay Area is a solid hike to Vegas, especially with the mountains in the way. It could work for the Raiders' LA fans but right now they have 2 other teams from which to choose.

 

[SVN]

living in the bay area, i can see a big backlash. Very passionate raider fans here. Its just absurd that the NFL and team want the city to fund a stadium.

 

[fnordcircle]

This 'billionaires want tax payers to pay for stadiums nonsense has got to ****ing go the way of the dodo.

I'm gonna end up paying for this ****.

 

[RayClay]

A smart business man (or woman) would buy into the Raiders move and build a "Raider Nation" theme park, complete with a hotel and casino, right alongside the stadium, similar to Gillette.

It's gonna be close enough for fans to come and stay the weekend to watch the games, and if Amtrak was smart, they'd run a "Raiders" themed train each weekend from Cali to LV.

That franchise, if done right, could not only turn into a quality product, but give New England, Dallas and Green Bay a run for their money as one of the richest teams in the league.

I bet there are some smart businessmen in Vegas who will run party boats for players between playoff games.

 

[RayClay]

Look, folks, we are only moving closer to the inevitable future of American sports simply being played in television studios in front of corporate oligarchs and their business clients who get tax deductions for spending hundreds of thousands of dollars per seat per game.

I envy the Brits and other countries where the fan feels part of an historically important link to the team.

Thank God for Bob Kraft for twice taking extraordinary measures in the 1990's for extending our time, but who knows what happens after him?

When I lived in florida, I got tickets to a Sox, tampa Bay game in the domed stadium. after years of going to Fenway, that really seemed like some giant skeeball game. I never got comfortable with it.

 

[RayClay]

i loved the soccer here in Italy when it was '70 and '80

after that period not anymore...

too much money...too much tv...people is prefering here too to see soccer on tv comparing going to the stadium...when i was young you should have left home in the morning to take place for a game...now...nah...

but what i find incredible is how much 'easy' seems in actual NFL to leave in a rush from a place to another one...seems that the fan base is 'not existing'...

i am so sorry...a friend of mine is s Charger fan since 35 years...

i could not imagine if something like that happens to me to us with the Patriots...

in 1993 we were so near...
we are 'lucky'...
thanks to Mr Kraft

probably (or surely...) we would have kept too the awesome Pat Patriot...Orthwein changed the logo...

Yeah, Kraft bashing is in vogue here but, no Kraft, no stadium, team in St Louis. That's as true as no Billy Sullivan stealing last franchise from Philadelphia, no football team.

People tend to look at an ideal world where everything would have somehow just worked out magically, but those are the facts in the real world those two owners had to deal with.

 

[King Air Pilot]

A smart business man (or woman) would buy into the Raiders move and build a "Raider Nation" theme park, complete with a hotel and casino, right alongside the stadium, similar to Gillette.

It's gonna be close enough for fans to come and stay the weekend to watch the games, and if Amtrak was smart, they'd run a "Raiders" themed train each weekend from Cali to LV.

That franchise, if done right, could not only turn into a quality product, but give New England, Dallas and Green Bay a run for their money as one of the richest teams in the league.

Really? Have you been eating paint chips or something? What an idea! Lets run a new construction train line through Yosemite, Sierra National Forest and Death Valley SO pissed off Raiders fans can see their team when they are in Vegas. Laughable.

 

[italian pat patriot]

Yeah, Kraft bashing is in vogue here but, no Kraft, no stadium, team in St Louis. That's as true as no Billy Sullivan stealing last franchise from Philadelphia, no football team.

People tend to look at an ideal world where everything would have somehow just worked out magically, but those are the facts in the real world those two owners had to deal with.

agree 100% my friend: that's the reason why I consider Kraft and Billy Sullivan the 2 most important persons in our franchise history...

without them ? who knows...

 

[Gwedd]

Really? Have you been eating paint chips or something? What an idea! Lets run a new construction train line through Yosemite, Sierra National Forest and Death Valley SO pissed off Raiders fans can see their team when they are in Vegas. Laughable.

Laughable is getting dissed by an adolescent poster. No reason that already existing lines between Oakland, LA and Vegas can't be used. Folks could fly as well. But you know, these are just ideas. Pity you don't have the mental wherewithal to understand that and choose to toss insults rather than contribute positively to the discussion.

 

[Pats1989]

So the Raiders will play a few lame duck years in Oakland before moving? That's a slept in the face really.

 

[Jangles]

I frequent Vegas so the idea of seeing an NFL game there is exciting.

Hopefully their fans stay out though.

 

[RayClay]

agree 100% my friend: that's the reason why I consider Kraft and Billy Sullivan the 2 most important persons in our franchise history...

without them ? who knows...

There was no billionaire ready to start a Football team in a City where past teams failed, where it was near impossible to get a stadium built. As hideous as Schaefer Stadium was, if that hadn't been pushed through, we probably wouldn't have a team either.

Sullivan was an Irish con man but he was always in love with the team.