Reiss on Wolf’s draft philosophy

[Ivan]

Fast doesn't always equal good. If fast was the only thing, Bethel Johnson would be a Hall of Famer.

I never said it was, but when your whole team is as slow as it was in that Buffalo playoff game then you need to get faster as a team.

 

[Ivan]

Wait. Wasn’t Eliot Wolf a “consultant“ until after the 2022 draft? If so, that would make 2023 his first draft.

With the way Belichick screwed around with titles it was always difficult to assess, but I actually think that’s why he did it.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

I am not as optimistic as you. The Bears, Vikings, Colts, and 49ers all interviewed Wolf and passed. Maybe he will work out, but clearly not a hot prospect.

Bears interview Wolf for GM position

The Bears on Tuesday interviewed Eliot Wolf for their general manager position. Wolf has spent the past 18 seasons working in NFL personnel departments, including the first 14 in several different capacities with the Packers.

www.chicagobears.com

Vikings Conclude Initial Interview with Eliot Wolf for GM Opening

Minnesota Vikings Latest News

www.vikings.com

The Numbers Behind GM Candidate Eliot Wolf

The Colts are set to interview six candidates for the team's vacant general manager position and this time we take a look at Packers Director of Football Operations Eliot Wolf.

www.colts.com

49ers interview Packers’ Eliot Wolf for GM job

SANTA CLARA — The San Francisco 49ers are interviewing Green Bay Packers director of football operations Eliot Wolf for their general manager vacancy.

www.smdailyjournal.com

The way the front office and coaching staff were assembled is a bit unusual. There is a lot that needs to be played out. I am trying to take an open minded approach and hope that everyone has been chosen based on their football knowledge as opposed to their willingness to take input from ownership.

 

[upstater1]

I never said it was, but when your whole team is as slow as it was in that Buffalo playoff game then you need to get faster as a team.

It was also a matter of them being old. Old & slow. Some of those players were considered fast in the peak of their careers.

 

[upstater1]

That’s fine, I have very little to actually go on but I’m hopeful he wil do a good job for them. Same goes for Mayo. I’m happy the Kraft’s took some chances. But only time will tell whether they made the right choices or not.

They have to choose the best people and then have patience.

This is a worry.

Because Eliot Wolf's stated criteria for putting together a team sounds like what anyone in his position should say. BPA, don't panic, don't cut corners, stay with the plan. But then you have the media, Krafts and fans breathing down your back, and what do you do? You go into the draft trying to fill needs, you sign FAs to big contracts, you trade away picks for vets.

This reminds me of talk I went to yesterday. It all sounded great in the abstract, but none of the principles meant anything really until they were put to the test.

At the end of the day, it's the owner who needs to have the patience to see the thing through. Because if the owner starts doing what 80% of the other owners do (sell hope), we're going to have a problem. Worse: this place will be known as a place that requires immediate production.

 

[Wozzy]

The way the front office and coaching staff were assembled is a bit unusual. There is a lot that needs to be played out. I am trying to take an open minded approach and hope that everyone has been chosen based on their football knowledge as opposed to their willingness to take input from ownership.

I used to admire Ron Wolf's work a lot, and you can still see his imprint on the Packers (in the NFL) today. They do seem to draft the best players available, at least take a lot of players on my personal board, and take superior athletes overall.

Where the Packers seem to falter after that, is either in player development or on the field execution... coaching. I know some here believe Tom Brady was responsible for everything and coaching just takes care of itself once you have a QB, but that's a total load of garbage. Despite having superior QB play the entire time, the Packers only played in Super Bowls and won a single championship when Mike Holmgren was running the ship or later after another coach failed and Wolf's heir apparent Ted Thompson hired Mike McCarthy as head coach, Joe Philbin to run the offense and Dom Capers to run the defense. That's the lone championship of Aaron Rogers long storied career.

The Patriots hopefully become that uber drafting machine, but they also need Mayo and co to become an uber development team... they need both.

 

[Ivan]

It was also a matter of them being old. Old & slow. Some of those players were considered fast in the peak of their careers.

Agree completely. I felt like it was the team as a whole that just looked old, slow, and overmatched.

 

[Ivan]

They have to choose the best people and then have patience.

This is a worry.

Because Eliot Wolf's stated criteria for putting together a team sounds like what anyone in his position should say. BPA, don't panic, don't cut corners, stay with the plan. But then you have the media, Krafts and fans breathing down your back, and what do you do? You go into the draft trying to fill needs, you sign FAs to big contracts, you trade away picks for vets.

This reminds me of talk I went to yesterday. It all sounded great in the abstract, but none of the principles meant anything really until they were put to the test.

At the end of the day, it's the owner who needs to have the patience to see the thing through. Because if the owner starts doing what 80% of the other owners do (sell hope), we're going to have a problem. Worse: this place will be known as a place that requires immediate production.

Good points, good post. You’re right, they can say the right things all they want, but if the pressure from ownership is to win now for Bob then any sensible model for rebuilding to become a serious long term contender will be pushed aside in favor of “!win now,” which would be a terrible approach for them.

 

[archstanton543]

But then you have the media, Krafts and fans breathing down your back, and what do you do?

This is part of the job description of a GM in the NFL.

 

[signbabybrady]

I used to admire Ron Wolf's work a lot, and you can still see his imprint on the Packers (in the NFL) today. They do seem to draft the best players available, at least take a lot of players on my personal board, and take superior athletes overall.

Where the Packers seem to falter after that, is either in player development or on the field execution... coaching. I know some here believe Tom Brady was responsible for everything and coaching just takes care of itself once you have a QB, but that's a total load of garbage. Despite having superior QB play the entire time, the Packers only played in Super Bowls and won a single championship when Mike Holmgren was running the ship or later after another coach failed and Wolf's heir apparent Ted Thompson hired Mike McCarthy as head coach, Joe Philbin to run the offense and Dom Capers to run the defense. That's the lone championship of Aaron Rogers long storied career.

The Patriots hopefully become that uber drafting machine, but they also need Mayo and co to become an uber development team... they need both.

I'd say the development side is more important as you can find talent through the draft, free agency, or trades and none of it matters if you aren't coaching/developing correctly.

The draft is as much about talent replacement as it is about finding top end talent if not more. You need to be bringing in enough young talent to replace the inevitable loss and attrition to injury and free agency.

And even if you do all that perfect you still need the QB.

 

[p8ryts]

Where does this leave Groh? Curious where's the line that splits their duties.

Seems like he has been put aside in the corner. Maybe they consider him to closely aligned with Bill.

 

[upstater1]

This is part of the job description of a GM in the NFL.

So then this whole philosophy stuff is nonsense.

 

[archstanton543]

So then this whole philosophy stuff is nonsense.

The philosophy isn't nonsense in and of itself. It's how effective it is and how quickly it produces results (those usually go hand-in-hand).

 

[signbabybrady]

Seems like he has been put aside in the corner. Maybe they consider him to closely aligned with Bill.

It certainly seems like they are giving preference to Wolf. Nothing official will be done until after the draft.

Now the question becomes is Groh being kept around just for the draft or will he also be part of Wolf's team going forward. This is very common as so much of the work for the draft gets done during the college season you don't throw out the guys who did the work until after the draft. Grier was actually still here for Bill's first draft in 2000 as an example.

 

[Water Boy]

I watch Drake Maye and see a guy who had to make chicken salad out of chicken sht. He was always under pressure, including interior pressure.

Good training for the Patriots offense.

 

[upstater1]

The philosophy isn't nonsense in and of itself. It's how effective it is and how quickly it produces results (those usually go hand-in-hand).

You're missing my point. If the owner is panicking, the GMs philosophy is nonsense. The owner has to buy into the GM for the philosophy to work.

Given the time it takes to know a player's value (Barmore is going into his 4th year), the owner has to be committed to a GM for about 8 years (2 full cycles) before knowing that they need to replace him. If they do it sooner than that, they have not allowed the GMs philosophy to have a true impact on the team.

 

[upstater1]

It certainly seems like they are giving preference to Wolf. Nothing official will be done until after the draft.

Now the question becomes is Groh being kept around just for the draft or will he also be part of Wolf's team going forward. This is very common as so much of the work for the draft gets done during the college season you don't throw out the guys who did the work until after the draft. Grier was actually still here for Bill's first draft in 2000 as an example.

Wolf has been overseeing pro scouting, and Groh college. If Groh leaves, one of our scouts will have to be elevated.

 

[TomPatriot]

I am not as optimistic as you. The Bears, Vikings, Colts, and 49ers all interviewed Wolf and passed. Maybe he will work out, but clearly not a hot prospect.

Bears interview Wolf for GM position

The Bears on Tuesday interviewed Eliot Wolf for their general manager position. Wolf has spent the past 18 seasons working in NFL personnel departments, including the first 14 in several different capacities with the Packers.

www.chicagobears.com

Vikings Conclude Initial Interview with Eliot Wolf for GM Opening

Minnesota Vikings Latest News

www.vikings.com

The Numbers Behind GM Candidate Eliot Wolf

The Colts are set to interview six candidates for the team's vacant general manager position and this time we take a look at Packers Director of Football Operations Eliot Wolf.

www.colts.com

49ers interview Packers’ Eliot Wolf for GM job

SANTA CLARA — The San Francisco 49ers are interviewing Green Bay Packers director of football operations Eliot Wolf for their general manager vacancy.

www.smdailyjournal.com

He was pretty young for these openings and I’m not sure I’d look at some of these organizations as the most impressive evaluators of executive talent.

 

[Sam Bam Cunningham]

Show us the scouting reports that say that Daniels isn’t tough Sam? My belief is that you are now just making **** up. But we will see if you can prove I’m wrong about that?

Ivan. Bottom line is that there has been consensus among scouts that Daniel's weakness is accuracy for intermediate MOF routes. This is a critical skill to have in the NFL.
He has a high ceiling but I fear he could be boom or bust. Injury concern with his frame is for real.
Maye or McCarthy are safer picks.

 

[Spiral]

Cole Strange may be an exceptional athlete, but I've yet to see it.