Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Joey007, Jan 20, 2020.
I think Gilmore wins this pretty handedly, did it in a tougher era too.
I disagree with this (Gilmore's 2019 is among the greatest cornerback seasons in NFL history) but I do think people forget how good Law was in 2003. Worth noting it was easier to play corner in 2003 than it is now, though.
Leigh Bodden's magical season probably belongs on the list too.
For those who remember, was Ty Law strong in man coverage or was he strictly a zone corner? Same with Samuel?
Also, I understand that McCourty was a zone corner who switched to free safety. Is it easier for a zone corner to switch to free safety? Would someone like Samuel or Law been good at free safety?
I remember some saying that Browner should switch to strong safety (in the offseason right after we got him), but others saying that it would minimize his strengths.
I know it's a lot of hypotheticals but I'm very interested in defensive backs in general.
Law and Samuel were both physical man corners.
I love JC Jackson, but it’s inherently unfair to calculate a passer rating against without including penalty yards. He’s a stud, no doubt, but he also commits a lot of PIs for big gains that don’t show up in that calculation...and he’s feasting on the matchup that Gilmore provides for him. Kind of like Cromartie’s “improvement” when Revis emerged. But he looks to have the talent to be a great CB for years to come.
Maybe this is the best way to put it.
Revis was good but not great in 2014. Was generally asked to handle the #2 WR while the #1 was doubled. He was nothing like he'd been in his peak Jets years and would have been a goat if they did not comeback to win the Ravens game. He helped the Pats win the Super Bowl so I am glad that got him but I was not overly impressed with him.
Gilmore this year and Law in 2003 are only 2 in real consideration.
I saw the Pats live in San Diego in 2014 and basically just watched him on Allen the entire game. Either his coverage was snug as a blanket or Rivers didn’t want to find out. I think as the year went on, he wore down. However, I think the Pats defense didn’t allow a TD in the fourth quarter of their last 10 games including postseason. So I think he was pretty darn good and worthy of all-pro. I do agree, though, that he wasn’t the other worldly CB of 2009-11, though Gilmore in 2019 was that good.
DPOY CBs are rare.
How is this a debate/poll?
It's one of the best seasons this century from ANY CB let alone a Patriots CB.
Law gambled often and won. It makes for more spectacular plays. Asante Samuels did the same. Richard Sherman does the same. They all try to get more interceptions by gambling more (deliberately playing off to entice the throw before jumping it etc).
Gilmore has a different style. He gambles less and is more reliable. It makes for less spectacular plays although he happened to also have many with some amazing athleticism and some fortuitousness. I like Gilmore's play and style. He's always at the right place at the right time. I bet BB loves him too for the consistency.
Gilmore is rightly the DPOY and undisputed best CB in league.
I know he'll go into the HOF as a Jet and left here in a flame war on social media, but did someone say Gilmore is as good as peak Revis? First ballot HOFer Darrelle Revis?
19 Gilmore is the answer, but wow, people are being dismissive of Revis, even in his year here. He got "toasted" by Steve Smith to the tune of what, three catches for 40 yards, a TD, and a holding penalty? (Edit: also a bad DPI call). He also got picked by the ref against Seattle and tripped against Jordy Nelson. That's still less than Gilmore against Parker in one game.
03 Law was on a waaaayyy better defense that dominated the trenches. There was a lot more pressure on this secondary to carry the load, especially since the offense was giving them no slack this season, and Gilmore was the reason it happened for as long as it did.
I have Gilmore in 2019, then Law, then Revis. Regis was great in 2014 but I still think he was about 90% of what he was at his peak. Early in that season they seemed to have him in a lot of zone which was strange. They also had multiple games where he covered the other teams number two receiver (and generally shut them down) while the number one was bracketed. Gilmore and Law on the other hand covered the teams best receiver pretty much all game all year.
2007 Ellis Hobbs
I voted Law. There's no way Gilmore should get the vote based on the end of the season. If the Pats rolled through the playoffs dominating and won the Super Bowl then yes we can have a discussion. Actually somewhat shocked by the poll results.
They did that in 2004 after Law was out for the season.
Yeah, but they also did that in 2003. The run in 2004 just proves how dominant that team was from top to bottom. 17-2 both years so take your pick...
Wow, so Gilmore’s season only beats Law’s if we win SB. Come on man. This is ridiculous. It’s hard enough when QBs are compared with this standard but all positions? Ridiculous. What happened in post-season or even the team’s records are irrelevant when discussing which defensive performance between Gilmore 19 or Law 03 is better.
I think it's pretty ridiculous that you wouldn't count the post-season in the discussion??! Additionally, where are the statistics that show Gilmore was hands down "better" than Law. I give it the ole eye test as I always do and have been watching the Pats since around 1978. Law did play in an era where corner backs could get away with far, far more but Gilmore also get called for more penalties than Law did. Nothing against Gilmore, fantastic season except for laying an absolute egg against the Dolphins he was fantastic. Gilmore is a great player. Better than 2003 Law? Not by a long-shot!
Wow I don't know man
Law was a beast in 03 but like you said he could destroy the receivers.
He wasn't as good a cover guy as Gilmore is and Law is my favorite all time Patriot.
I still think BB trades Gilmore for picks.
BB just can't help himself.
I highly question your “eye test.” Several people have noted that Law got absolutely torched at various times in the 2003 season, and that’s with the old rules that allowed holding, and in addition noted the much, much better front 7 the old Patriots had.
The “eye test” shows a lopsided win for Gilmore. Just consider his play is so dominating he has gotten on the National radar and is likely to be just the third CB since 1994 to win DPOY. Deion Sanders and Charles Woodson are the other two. That in itself should shut down the eye test recency bias angle. And despite Gilmore’s struggles in week 17, he is still the massive favorite to win it because he was so far ahead of the next best defensive player in the league.
Darrelle Revis is out there touting Gilmore’s other worldly skills.
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