Patriots type 3-4 OLB

[Peachhead]

Ayers is probably the most athletic OLB/DE player in this draft. And he probably has the most upside of any OLB/DE player in this draft.

As a pass rusher he has one move, speed up the field, if that is taken away, he is toast.

In coverage he projects as the best OLB in this draft.

Against the run he lacks size and can't set a hard edge to save his life.

He also had a lousy motor when I've seen him. If the ballcarrier got past him or ran to the other side of the field he just kind of jogged in the general direction.

 

[everlong]

I really don't get from watching Ayers why he is getting first round grades. I think he has bust written all over him. As noted he cannot set the edge and I don't see him being an elite pass rusher.

Out of Kerrigan, Smith and Beal the way I see it is Beal is the most well rounded. He can play in space, drop in coverage, he can engage blockers and then get off of them. He reminds me of Cunningham in some ways but has played in space much more to this point.

Kerrigan plays with a high motor but lacks suddenness. He does set the edge and honor his gaps. I have not seen him drop into coverage.

Smith is the most athletic. He's the fastest and the quickest of the three. He has great hands and several moves. He's honors his run responsibilities. He's also very aware on the field. I've seen several pass deflections where he realized he wasn't getting there but kept his head up and ended up making a play.

I think all three show good hustle playing until the whistle and will track down plays from behind. I think BB if history follows suit would be most likely to take Beal at the end of the second. I want him to take Smith @17 and if he doesn't it wouldn't shock me to see SD take him @18. Smith at 6'5" 260 and clocked in the 4.6's could be that McGinist player in time and you make him your pass rusher from day one. The safe pick is Beal who will be the most wel rounded but the upside is all Smith who you'll need to teach the other skills.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Smith is the most athletic. He's the fastest and the quickest of the three. He has great hands and several moves. He's honors his run responsibilities. He's also very aware on the field. I've seen several pass deflections where he realized he wasn't getting there but kept his head up and ended up making a play.

Speaking of Aldon Smith, it appears that his best pass rush move is the swim move. The scout says he doesn't see a lot of strength or suddenness from Smith, but this move appears to be effective even going against the interior of the line. This means that Smith doesn't have to run around outside the tackle to generate an effective rush. That would also leave him in better position to defend his assignment and stop the run. If BB can move Smith around in the defense, I think he could have a nice passrush weapon to use. Smith also apparently has long arms that will help him battle with OL better.
The Scouting Database: Aldon Smith- 2011 Draft Scouting Report

6'4 260 lbs is pretty good size for a BB OLB assuming those measurements are accurate. Cunningham measured in at 6'3 260. Crable at 6'5 250.
Aldon Smith Scouting Report - 2011 NFL Draft Prospect

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

It's time to move up and get a stud.

Robert Quinn is the best option in my opinion. He's listed as 6'5 268 and is said to be somwehere between 250 and 270. He's projected to run between 4.6 and 4.7. He was one of the best pass rushers in the nation in 2009 and projected as a top 5 pick before the season started. He will likely slide a little after not playing this year.

I don't care that he was suspended this year, the guy was an animal. He has the athleticism to make the move to 3-4 OLB. He has the height/weight/speed requirements BB wants. If you want guys like this, you've generally got to go up and get them (i.e., Peppers, Mario Williams, Orakpo, etc.).

Cash in some of those assets and move up to finally get the guy to replace Willie McGinest.

There are always going to be questions about these guys and their ability to hold up at the POA, set the edge, drop into coverage, etc. Some people have knocked his bull rush, but I've seen him use it effectively. I've also seen him split double teams and do a great job of flattening out around the corner and dipping his shoulder. Some have said he lacks the bulk, but he's like 20 years old. Plenty of time to add some muscle and bulk and fill out in an NFL workout program.

He has all the tools and makings of a great pass rusher. I don't know why more people aren't talking about him except for the fact that he would likely require a trade up and that money could put us in "cap jail" potentially. No such thing. The Jets and other teams have been moving up many times over the years, and they're fine.

We've done enough trading down the last few years to collect nice blue collar talent in the 2nd rounds and extra picks to build a solid foundation. It's time to get some difference makers on defense. To do that, you often have to trade up, especially when you're continually in the playoffs like us.

Quinn is a guy protection schemes would have to account for. When was the last time we had a player like that? He would make Cunningham more effective on the other side. He would make our standard 4 man rush more effective.

 

[everlong]

This gives a good idea of his play.

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<iframe title="YouTube video player" class="youtube-player" type="text/html" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ZSG8ETv7_ts" frameborder="0" allowFullScreen></iframe>

 

[OldNEPatsFan]

It's time to move up and get a stud.

Robert Quinn is the best option in my opinion. He's listed as 6'5 268 and is said to be somwehere between 250 and 270. He's projected to run between 4.6 and 4.7. He was one of the best pass rushers in the nation in 2009 and projected as a top 5 pick before the season started. He will likely slide a little after not playing this year.

I don't care that he was suspended this year, the guy was an animal. He has the athleticism to make the move to 3-4 OLB. He has the height/weight/speed requirements BB wants. If you want guys like this, you've generally got to go up and get them (i.e., Peppers, Mario Williams, Orakpo, etc.).

Cash in some of those assets and move up to finally get the guy to replace Willie McGinest.

There are always going to be questions about these guys and their ability to hold up at the POA, set the edge, drop into coverage, etc. Some people have knocked his bull rush, but I've seen him use it effectively. I've also seen him split double teams and do a great job of flattening out around the corner and dipping his shoulder. Some have said he lacks the bulk, but he's like 20 years old. Plenty of time to add some muscle and bulk and fill out in an NFL workout program.

He has all the tools and makings of a great pass rusher. I don't know why more people aren't talking about him except for the fact that he would likely require a trade up and that money could put us in "cap jail" potentially. No such thing. The Jets and other teams have been moving up many times over the years, and they're fine.

We've done enough trading down the last few years to collect nice blue collar talent in the 2nd rounds and extra picks to build a solid foundation. It's time to get some difference makers on defense. To do that, you often have to trade up, especially when you're continually in the playoffs like us.

Quinn is a guy protection schemes would have to account for. When was the last time we had a player like that? He would make Cunningham more effective on the other side. He would make our standard 4 man rush more effective.

With all the worries about head injuries in the league why would you use a 1st round pick on a guy with his medical condition. I'd be very concerned about a guy who has an inoperable non malignant tumor on his brain.

 

[WesWelker83]

The Georgia 3-4 and BB's 3-4 are not even remotely close. A lot of plays Houston put his hand in the dirt, BB never allows his OLB's to do that.

But Houston is sudden as a pass rusher and that gets my attention.

If Houston was more stout against the run, he would be my #1 OLB, but he can't hold the edge, so Kerrigan remains my #1 OLB.

I like Kerrigan too but the only concern with him is his athleticism at OLB. Is he quick and fast enough to play OLB? Can he play in space? Can he cover? I guess we will find out at the combine when we see his 40, 10 yard shuttle, 3 cone and his measurements. I hope his arms are long enough.

 

[VJCPatriot]

I must be the only guy who isn't high on Kerrigan. First I want to see him play with his hands off the ground, generate a rush, set the edge, and drop back in coverage. An outside linebacker who is a 1st round pick must be able to do all 3 things for BB.

 

[MaineMan]

I must be the only guy who isn't high on Kerrigan. First I want to see him play with his hands off the ground, generate a rush, set the edge, and drop back in coverage. An outside linebacker who is a 1st round pick must be able to do all 3 things for BB.

My feeling exactly. To me, the idea of spending a high pick on a guy who's mainly going to be a situational rusher - no matter how good he is at getting pressure - is just silly.

 

[Marqui]

It's time to move up and get a stud.

Robert Quinn is the best option in my opinion. He's listed as 6'5 268 and is said to be somwehere between 250 and 270. He's projected to run between 4.6 and 4.7. He was one of the best pass rushers in the nation in 2009 and projected as a top 5 pick before the season started. He will likely slide a little after not playing this year.

I don't care that he was suspended this year, the guy was an animal. He has the athleticism to make the move to 3-4 OLB. He has the height/weight/speed requirements BB wants. If you want guys like this, you've generally got to go up and get them (i.e., Peppers, Mario Williams, Orakpo, etc.).

Cash in some of those assets and move up to finally get the guy to replace Willie McGinest.

There are always going to be questions about these guys and their ability to hold up at the POA, set the edge, drop into coverage, etc. Some people have knocked his bull rush, but I've seen him use it effectively. I've also seen him split double teams and do a great job of flattening out around the corner and dipping his shoulder. Some have said he lacks the bulk, but he's like 20 years old. Plenty of time to add some muscle and bulk and fill out in an NFL workout program.

He has all the tools and makings of a great pass rusher. I don't know why more people aren't talking about him except for the fact that he would likely require a trade up and that money could put us in "cap jail" potentially. No such thing. The Jets and other teams have been moving up many times over the years, and they're fine.

We've done enough trading down the last few years to collect nice blue collar talent in the 2nd rounds and extra picks to build a solid foundation. It's time to get some difference makers on defense. To do that, you often have to trade up, especially when you're continually in the playoffs like us.

Quinn is a guy protection schemes would have to account for. When was the last time we had a player like that? He would make Cunningham more effective on the other side. He would make our standard 4 man rush more effective.

100% agree.

 

[everlong]

I must be the only guy who isn't high on Kerrigan. First I want to see him play with his hands off the ground, generate a rush, set the edge, and drop back in coverage. An outside linebacker who is a 1st round pick must be able to do all 3 things for BB.

When I compare Kerrigan and Beal I see Beal as being able to do all three and I don't see Kerrigan as a better pass rusher. So between the two I think Beal is the better value when you can get him a round later, at least as projected now. Granted the guy I want doesn't compare to Beal has shown in coverage but I think Smith's pass rush is worth bringing him in for that value and coaching him up on coverage. He's athletic enough.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

When I compare Kerrigan and Beal I see Beal as being able to do all three and I don't see Kerrigan as a better pass rusher. So between the two I think Beal is the better value when you can get him a round later, at least as projected now. Granted the guy I want doesn't compare to Beal has shown in coverage but I think Smith's pass rush is worth bringing him in for that value and coaching him up on coverage. He's athletic enough.

I have watched film on both and there is no doubt in my mind that Kerrigan is a much better pass rusher and a better run defender and plays with more motor. Kerrigan is fairly adept at stacking and shedding. But he is limited athletically and while he has shown on film he can drop into coverage, his coverage skills are horrible at best.

Beal is clearly a better athlete than Kerrigan but appears less instinctive and he zero stacking and shedding ability at this point. Beal is like super glue, once he hits an opposing O Line guy, he sticks to him for the rest of the play.

Smith is a better athlete than Beal, but has zero instincts and it is hard to imagine a 245 pounder setting a hard edge against 6'7" 330 pound OT's or even 260 TE's.

 

[Marqui]

Smith is a better athlete than Beal, but has zero instincts and it is hard to imagine a 245 pounder setting a hard edge against 6'7" 330 pound OT's or even 260 TE's.

I thought Smith was 260.

 

[everlong]

I have watched film on both and there is no doubt in my mind that Kerrigan is a much better pass rusher and a better run defender and plays with more motor. Kerrigan is fairly adept at stacking and shedding. But he is limited athletically and while he has shown on film he can drop into coverage, his coverage skills are horrible at best.

Beal is clearly a better athlete than Kerrigan but appears less instinctive and he zero stacking and shedding ability at this point. Beal is like super glue, once he hits an opposing O Line guy, he sticks to him for the rest of the play.

Smith is a better athlete than Beal, but has zero instincts and it is hard to imagine a 245 pounder setting a hard edge against 6'7" 330 pound OT's or even 260 TE's.

Smith is listed at 255-260 everywhere I've looked which is plenty big and he looks like his frame could add 10 pounds if needed. I don't see why you say he has zero instincts. When I've watched him play he has a nose for the ball and yet maintains his contain responsibilities. He keeps his head up and deflects passes and if the QB breaks the pocket he's there.

I don't see Beal as being super glue either. If anthing I would say his fault is trying to go around defenders too often. At that level he gets away with it.

 

[Sciz]

Well, cross Aldon Smith off your boards. He's another Tom Condon guy. Condon has now stolen who I had as my top realistic DE and OLB prospects (JJ Watt and Aldon Smith).

 

[Marqui]

Well, cross Aldon Smith off your boards. He's another Tom Condon guy. Condon has now stolen who I had as my top realistic DE and OLB prospects (JJ Watt and Aldon Smith).

Who's Condon and why do we need to cross his players off our lists?

 

[Sciz]

Who's Condon and why do we need to cross his players off our lists?

I'll steal an explanation I found on another forum:

Condon represented Ben Watson, the Pats wanted Watson to sign a 6 year deal, Condon would only go to 5 years. Bad blood ensued, Watson ended up firing Condon to get a deal done. The Pats haven't drafted or signed a Condon client since.

This isn't just a case where the Pats dislike working with Condon. This is a case where the Pats and Condon completely ruined any chance of working together in the future.

 

[dryheat44]

My feeling exactly. To me, the idea of spending a high pick on a guy who's mainly going to be a situational rusher - no matter how good he is at getting pressure - is just silly.

I think in the current NFL, if you can get a situational rusher who can reliably generate pressure on the quarterback, for a first round pick, you have to do it.

It's a passing league, and most quarterbacks are good enough to pick even a good defense apart if you let them.

To use an extreme case, if DeMarcus Ware were in this draft, but you were only allowed to play him on 2nd and longs and 3rd downs, would you spend a 1st rounder on him?

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

I think in the current NFL, if you can get a situational rusher who can reliably generate pressure on the quarterback, for a first round pick, you have to do it.

It's a passing league, and most quarterbacks are good enough to pick even a good defense apart if you let them.

To use an extreme case, if DeMarcus Ware were in this draft, but you were only allowed to play him on 2nd and longs and 3rd downs, would you spend a 1st rounder on him?

So you are saying we should get a Demarcus Ware so we can have a superior pass defense just like Dallas?

 

[everlong]

Just because Dallas's defense sucked it doesn't mean every player on the defense is useless. I'm sure we could find some redeemable talent on the 1-15 Panthers that would be upgrades on our team.