OT-ish: NFL allegedly expands player investigations

[jmt57]

The players gave him the right to do that too. The CBA had Article 46 in it and the players agreed to it.

True, but Article 46 had been part of previous Collective Bargaining Agreements as well.

I don't recall Paul Tagliabue ever coming close to abusing that power the way Roger Goodell has.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Yup. Article 46 goes back to at least the 1960s. There was just never an azzwipe abusing it before.

 

[chasa]

article 46 is going to be the reason we don't have football in a couple of years because all teh players are on strike.

 

[fnordcircle]

article 46 is going to be the reason we don't have football in a couple of years because all teh players are on strike.

I hope you're right, actually, because I'd rather lose a season than see the league continue on in its current trend.

But I highly doubt it. The players just don't show the solidarity it takes to make changes because they're all too busy thinking about short term success because it's a short term league. You have guys who might only be in the league for a single year and it's hard to imagine they'd want to risk that single year to change things for future draft classes.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Yeah, I'd love to see a barnburning strike that made serious changes, but when push comes to shove the players will cave after a few weeks and what they do get will be almost entirely dollar-related (not that I blame them), like getting a slightly larger percentage of revenues.

 

[Thelonious]

Since we're off topic:

There is a power-grab across the world on the part of large bureaucracies, whether governmental, corporate, or otherwise. The reasons for this are too complex for a post of any reasonable length here, but if you want such bureaucracies to solve your and everybody else's problems, to ensure a painless and flawless and effortless life experience for all, you're partly to blame. If whenever you see or hear something you don't like, you say," They oughta DO something about that," you're partly to blame, because now they are, in spades. Of course the football players' liberties are at risk. Yours are too.

 

[Tuck]

The players gave him the right to do that too. The CBA had Article 46 in it and the players agreed to it.

Article 46 has been around for a long time. I don't think the players union intended it to be used the way it has by this commissioner.

 

[archstanton543]

Article 46 has been around for a long time. I don't think the players union intended it to be used the way it has by this commissioner.

Intent's got nothing to do with it.

 

[Tuck]

Intent's got nothing to do with it.

So you think the players union is responsible for where they're at with this? I think the way article 46 is being used now is an overreach by management and the courts affirmed that overreach on appeal. I think Judge Berman would agree on that too.

 

[archstanton543]

So you think the players union is responsible for where they're at with this? I think the way article 46 is being used now is an overreach by management and the courts affirmed that overreach on appeal. I think Judge Berman would agree on that too.

I do think the union is to blame. It's no secret that the NFL has the worst players union out of the four major sports. Sure, Article 46 hasn't been abused in the past but that doesn't mean they shouldn't have fought to eliminate it to take away any chance of abuse. That's on the player's association not the commish or owners.

 

[Dillon46]

Wonder if Kraft is truly recognizing that hard swallow of regret and a serious case of buyers remorse....

We all know who this butt-puppet of a league is going to use these new found forms of f**kery on

 

[Tuck]

I do think the union is to blame. It's no secret that the NFL has the worst players union out of the four major sports. Sure, Article 46 hasn't been abused in the past but that doesn't mean they shouldn't have fought to eliminate it to take away any chance of abuse. That's on the player's association not the commish or owners.

I guess we have to agree to disagree. I think you are reading the contract to the letter of the law and I am saying there still needs to be some shred of fundamental fairness but when there is none, it's up to the courts to sort it out. In the Brady case they didn't. I can't fault the union for that in good conscience.

 

[fnordcircle]

Since we're off topic:

There is a power-grab across the world on the part of large bureaucracies, whether governmental, corporate, or otherwise. The reasons for this are too complex for a post of any reasonable length here, but if you want such bureaucracies to solve your and everybody else's problems, to ensure a painless and flawless and effortless life experience for all, you're partly to blame. If whenever you see or hear something you don't like, you say," They oughta DO something about that," you're partly to blame, because now they are, in spades. Of course the football players' liberties are at risk. Yours are too.

Someone ought to do something about your posting.

 

[Ivan]

article 46 is going to be the reason we don't have football in a couple of years because all teh players are on strike.

The players aren't able to stick together long enough for any strike to work. The owners can sit on their rich fats asses forever if need be, the players can't make it through a week.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

The players gave him the right to do that too. The CBA had Article 46 in it and the players agreed to it.

Not to open a can of worms again, but of four Federal Judges who heard the case, two felt that Article 46 did not give Goodell the right to do what he did and one of them (Berman) said just last week that, while he has to respect the CA2 Precedent, he still feels strongly that Goodell overstepped his authority and would have liked to see the case go to the Supreme Court.

That said, I hope the Players are ready to Strike to remove or significantly amend Article 46 in the next CBA.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

True, but Article 46 had been part of previous Collective Bargaining Agreements as well.

I don't recall Paul Tagliabue ever coming close to abusing that power the way Roger Goodell has.

Yup. Article 46 goes back to at least the 1960s. There was just never an azzwipe abusing it before.

article 46 is going to be the reason we don't have football in a couple of years because all teh players are on strike.

So you think the players union is responsible for where they're at with this? I think the way article 46 is being used now is an overreach by management and the courts affirmed that overreach on appeal. I think Judge Berman would agree on that too.

Article 46 is a problem, but it isn't the main problem because Article 46 was previously still enforced only within the limits of the CBA. The main problem is the "Integrity of the Game" clause, which should have been laughed at by any reasonable judge. That is the clause cited by Roger Goodell by which he could effectively break the CBA's standards and historical precedents for player conduct and impose any kind of penalty he wanted; otherwise, he would have been forced to punish Brady for the actual consequences of deflating footballs, which was listed as a 20K fine.

Integrity of Game. Player recognizes the detriment to the League and professional football that would result from impairment of public confidence in the honest and orderly conduct of NFL games or the integrity and good character of NFL players. Player therefore acknowledges his awareness that if he accepts a bribe or agrees to throw or fix an NFL game; fails to promptly report a bribe offer or an attempt to throw or fix an NFL game; bets on an NFL game; knowingly associates with gamblers or gambling activity, uses or provides other players with stimulants or other drugs for the purpose of attempting to enhance on-field performance; or is guilty of any other form of conduct reasonably judged by the League

It is absolutely F'ing absurd that Goodell cited this clause during Defamegate, and that the courts let him get away with it. Essentially, he is using a clause regarding betting, game fixing, and steroids as a catch-all to do whatever he wanted, provided the rules violation wasn't specifically stated to the T. Do you really think that was the intent of the agreement between the players of owners, that everything could be overriden due to a vague sentence about "other form of conduct" when conduct and penalties are exactly what the CBA covers? That is why he had to add the "scheme" and "impeding the investigation" as part of the charge against Brady, since deflating balls were already listed as a 20K fine, he had to slightly change the offense. Getting a competitive advantage by using things like stickum, deflating balls, faking injuries, wearing a slippery substance, etc. and about 100 other different things players can do...there are already rules governing those. As the dissenting judge noted, why would deflating footballs not be analagous to using stickum, in terms of a punishment, since that is the closest analogy? Pretty much everything can be a type of misconduct, but the Integrity of the Game clause is supposed to be reserved for extreme situations. Think Pete Rose stuff...not a guy who throws a spitball.

It was up to the courts to step in and interpret if that clause could reasonably be cited for this (fake) offense. Based on precedent and previous citations of that clause, and similar clauses in other sports leagues, it was clear as day that the clause would not apply to this situation. Why did it pass? You should ask Judge Chin and Judge Parker about how they could be so stupid as to allow this argument to stand; it is almost like a second grade reasoning level. They are the two morons who ruled in favor of the NFL. In ruling in favor of the NFL, they are essentially saying that this insane abuse of this clause was agreed upon by the players association when they agreed to the CBA.

 

[lurker1965]

Florio:


and

NFLPA warns of “new world” of player investigations