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Discussion in 'The PatsFans.com Pub' started by Joey007, Feb 22, 2019.

  1. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #6 isn’t what happened with this ruling.
    What happened with this ruling was a precedent that law enforcement did have enough for probable cause, were allowed to place cameras in the massage rooms, but next time need to have a process for only turning them on when criminal activity is happening.
    Also, while perhaps inventing a reason to pull the car over may have been successfully challenged, it wasn’t here, rather the stop was thrown out because once the tape was inadmissible that made the stop inadmissable because it’s why they knew who to stop.
     

  2. fnordcircle

    fnordcircle The poster who James White said inspires him. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    When has that ever worked, Andy?

    Have you ever admitted being wrong?

    This isn't sarcastic or rhetorical I'm serious - I don't remember you ever admitting you were wrong.
     
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  3. chris_in_sunnyvale

    chris_in_sunnyvale In the Starting Line-Up

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    A plea to the members: Please give the back-and-forth with AJ a rest. Nobody ultimately gives a **** whether or not he's wrong.

    And to AJ: People rightly or wrongly think you're wrong. Why do you ****ing care? You've made your point, it's there for everyone to read. We're all good.

    This place isn't about you and I'm not talking just about AJ.

    Regards,
    Chris
     
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  4. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Of course I do.
    When I say something that turns out wrong I readily admit it.

    When people bastardize what I said into something I didn’t say and tell me I was wrong about what they incorrectly attributed to me, no.

    That’s the dynamic on this board. If you don’t want to agree with someone why bother refuting what they say when you can just argue against something they didn’t say that you have a better argument against? 95% of the disagreements I have on this board are exactly that.

    But feel free to challenge it.
     
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  5. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    When people address me, I respond.
    Probably shouldn’t but that’s who I am.

    And FYI it’s not “people think” it’s a few with an agenda.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2019
  6. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Pro Bowl Player

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    The judge ruled the surveillance he authorized legal. That surveillance never occured. That's not the surveillance the cops engaged in. They engaged in their own brand. The surveillance that occured was not legal.
     
  7. fnordcircle

    fnordcircle The poster who James White said inspires him. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Can you give us an example of when you debated something and then admitted you were wrong?
     
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  8. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Pro Bowl Player

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    Andy you absolutely questioned the idea of the cops raiding the place and you absolutely asked why would the health dept lie about the conditions. And let me ask you a question, otherwise to what?
     
  9. patfanken

    patfanken PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Cmon, Andy. You've clearly followed the case MUCH more closely than I have. So how could you have missed the reports that cited the officer that would make the stops stating he'd figure out a reason after he stopped them. I saw it, how could have you missed it?

    But OK. I have a life to lead so I'm not going to get involve in one of your convoluted 4 page diatribe. Hopefully someone with the research skill who reads this will pull the story up for you..... Me I'm going for a long walk
     
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  10. chris_in_sunnyvale

    chris_in_sunnyvale In the Starting Line-Up

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    Their agenda is to pull your strings and make you dance. You oblige the **** out of them. It's your call if you wish to be known as the smartest caricature on this board.

    Regards
    Chris
     
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  11. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Another thread merge?

    Come on.....
     
  12. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I’m not going to go back and review conversations.
    First of all many debates are opinion and usually no one is wrong about their opinion but some of the supporting assumptions can be proven wrong as to fact.
    An example from this board is that points allowed is by far the most important defensive statistic. That’s opinion.

    Secondly many debates are prediction-based. Everyone is wrong with predictions but I doubt people run around admitting they were wrong.
    On this board, an example would be people who gave up on the patriots last year. I’ve made a lot of predictions that turned out wrong.

    Another is a factual disagreement. At one point rookies cut at the end of camp never got claimed. After it started occurring I argued that it never happens. I was wrong and it’s become more and more common.


    On this board most of the “debate” isn’t debate at all but people responding not to what is said but what they can argue against.
    For example me saying I think that if a judge gives a warrant and a police officer executes it that it’s fair to assume prior to knowing that actual facts of what occurred that it was done legally and properly for the sake of discussion being turned into I think the police are always right
     
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  13. Hyped

    Hyped PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Turning on/off the cameras for criminal activity is a good rule to have so we don't film innocent people, but still they were able to obtain a warrant based on a health inspector's visit where it was noted that there were blankets/pillows, hot plates, and etc... which I do not think should be sufficient enough to obtain a warrant. Not to mention using a bomb threat as a ruse to install said cameras. IMO, that would have been challenged *if* the cops properly turned on/off the cameras as the Patriot Act doesn't give this kind of leeway unless it was a human trafficking op...which it wasn't. The turning on/off thing was the "low hanging fruit".
     
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  14. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I really could not care less. This board is a distraction not real life, and people who think it’s a referendum on their intelligence or character are frightening.
     
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  15. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The judge specifically ruled that they had established sufficient probable cause.

    I don’t remember the exact details of warrant application but I thought that it was for prostitution and the evidence of people living there wasn’t key to pc, but of the warrant were for sexual trafficking, the ads that were thinly veiled sex for sake ads plus the evidence people could be living there ought to be sufficient.
    Probably cause doesn’t mean proof of a crime, just a level of likelihood to allow investigation.
     
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  16. fnordcircle

    fnordcircle The poster who James White said inspires him. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The fact that you can't remember a time you were wrong and would have to 'review' conversations is really telling, Andy.

    I dug in my heels that Belichick was a bad choice. I was wrong.

    There was no way we were cutting Reche Caldwell and anyone who said otherwise was dumb. I was wrong.

    Chad Johnson and Albert Haynesworth were going to be monsters for us, I was wrong. Sterling Moore is a solid DB there's no way we're cutting him. I was wrong.

    Erik Rowe is a solid DB there's no way the team is judging him as harshly as fans. I was wrong.

    That's just off the top of my head.

    The game here is that we argue. And when there's clear proof one of us is wrong the person who is wrong owns up to it, at least a little bit. The fact that you can't remember being wrong and I can't remember you ever admitting to it makes me even less-inclined to ever debate with you.
     
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  17. chris_in_sunnyvale

    chris_in_sunnyvale In the Starting Line-Up

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    Yes, the board is a distraction. A good one. Your back and forth with your "fans" makes it less than a good one. It would be nice if you all did your own parts to fix that.

    Regards,
    Chris
     
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  18. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I know there were articles about it in the last few days and I know there were disputes about what was said.
    If you really want to pull crap like implying I said I don’t know the facts when I do, then go for your walk. If you want me to tell you what I think about something you have to tell me what you are talking about. How can I answer if someone lied if you won’t tell me what they said?

    I mean it’s not that complicated.
    If he gave a reason for pulling them over but otherwise said that wasnt the reason then clearly he lied. If he gave a reason and stands by it, then it’s a judgment call.
    My understanding would be in this case that if they were operating under a legal warrant and a crime was witnessed that alone is sufficient cause to pull him over and ID him and my understanding is there is no requirement under the law that he tells him the real reason he pulled him over. And in an ongoing investigation it would make sense not to tip anyone off. So “lying” kind of has a different connotation there.
     
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  19. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Those are predictions. As I said everyone has many of those.

    I dont recall you ever writing a post to admit you were wrong about those things. It’s kind of obvious.

    I could list many as could anyone, but what’s the point everyone has been wrong on many predictions.
     
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  20. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    But if you want to make it a game
    Just recently I thought kyler Murray going # 1 was a ruse.
    I thought no one would hire kingsbury as a HC.
    I didn’t think Flores would get a hc job.
    I didn’t think the giants would tease obj after giving him a new contract.
    I didn’t think butler was going to become a starter.
    I thought we would keep solder

    Those are a few. Everyone has many.
     
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