King on playoff seeding system

[Patsfanin Philly]

'infortunately anomaly' is true like it is true that the OT loss against Nyj and that play (3rd and 15) was 'the play' of the game and for our season too

i do not dislike anyway the actual NFL play-off system

Without playing the "what if" game ( but actually playing it).Assuming that the Pats had won that game and nothing else changed, they would have been 12-4, won the division and been hosting a game this weekend as the #3 seed. Tenn and Pitt would still be #1 and #2 (Pitt beat NE) and indy would be #5. Balt by virtue of having beaten Miami head to head would get the #6 seed and come to NE, knocking Miami out of the playoffs........

 

[fgssand]

Problem with that is, you have more non-conference games.

Mathematically difficult for a team to have a better record than everyone in their division, while losing to everyone in the "tough" division and also having 3 full game deficit to a team in an "easy" division.

An 8-8 team is usually (always) from a crap division while a 11-5 team is from the stronger one. the math is almost impossible otherwise.

I actually meant to say one division playing weaker DIVISIONS getting on over teams from a DIVISION playing stronger divisions.

If you go with best records, the risk of a highly competitive division (not necessarily better division, see NFC black & blue) knocking itself out is huge and also quite unfair when two teams from an uncompetitive division basically could always get in.

The division rivalry would suffer, winning division games would lose it's extreme importance and you would be looking at hockey style playoff seedings. Teams in the 3-10 seeding range would have nothing to play for at the end of the season, they cannot get the bye and are pretty much assured of getting in by December 1 or mid Dec. The only excitement would come from the say the teams trying to make the final two spots in the 11-16 seed logjam.

While 9-7 division winning teams (actually the 8-8 team may go deep this year) usually do indeed suck because they usually come from weak divisions, it is possible for the reverse to occur and that is the 9-7 team from a Strong division that knocks itself out by splitting the home and home games against each other. That is the problem I could see occurring. It almost happened in the NFC East this year, had Dallas not choked down the stretch and the Giants lost one more game.....it is possible that no teams from that strong division would have been in, given the seeding style.

 

[MassPats38]

The argument to change the playoff system appears stronger when a team like the Pats are on the outside looking in with an 11-5 record watching 8-8 teams. I do think it is kneejerk to argue change is needed.

First, the last time this happened record-wise was 23 years ago. There has certainly been restructuring of divisions, but the two wildcard team system was still there. And the Browns were 8-8 (the Browns lost their first game in the playoffs to Miami, so the record apparently did not lie), so it looks much the same. As we are now in the 43rd year of the Super Bowl, 23 years represents a fairly low probability of occurrence.

Second, divisions are aligned to play the same divisions in the AFC and NFC. If a schedule is easy, all teams should benefit from the schedule. If a schedule is difficult, all should suffer. The schedules are not a perfect match, but close enough that the first standard for comparison for success is in the division.

Third, wildcard teams should be the best not to win the division. Nobody can argue the rules were misapplied. The other two teams that made it pass the test, the Pats didn't.

Finally, a ranking system suffers from a different deficiency. The BCS system in college has been controversial every year. The Pats could be in a division in which every team is almost as good and all very good by NFL standards, thus deals one loss to every division rival. That is .500 ball. Do you then put in the team with the best record, or put in the teams from the toughest division allowing for more losses? Where do you draw the line? It becomes an opinion question with possible injustice every year.

The Pats had close losses that would have put them in the playoffs but for a mistake or two. One more win would have made Miami the victim with 11 wins. I will take the silver lining that the team will benefit from the extra few weeks of recovery after 5 straight years of abbreviated offseasons.

 

[Winnipeg Wild Stew]

The only thing that I would tweak about the current playoff system, is the way that the Wild Card teams qualify.

All eight divisional winners automatically qualify and get a home playoff game. That works fine. It still keep the impotance of divisional play intact.

The thing that I would change would be that the next BEST 4 teams accross the entire NFL make the playoffs. Not just the best 2 teams per conference. The only way that one confernce team can cross over to the other conference would be to have a better straight up record.

example: Falcons 11-5
Eagles 9-6-1

Based on this playoff format, the Patriots would qualify ahead of the Eagles, but behind the Falcons due to the Falcons gaining their conference tie-breaker.

When there are only 5 teams in the entire NFL with more wins, and you don't
qualify for the playoffs, something needs to change.

 

[pao]

Not sure why he brings up division record, since they play in different divisions; it's not relevant - unless King also wants to compare the quality of the Broncos, Raiders and Chiefs to the Dolphins, Jets and Bills.

Regardless, I have no problem with the current system. Build your team to win the division first. If you don't win, then you have not one, but two more chances to get in to the playoffs. That's three chances to make the playoffs; if your team got left out then you need to look at your own shortcomings rather than point fingers at the system, or a team that won its own division.

I agree with you. I do believe that you should NOT get an automatic home game as a Division winner though. I think it's ludicrous that the 12-4 Colts must travel to San Diego to play the 8-8 Chargers. One element of Playoff Seedings should be Overall Record, imo.

 

[patriotsdynasty12189]

Whos playing today?

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Except for King's Division Wins comparison, which overlooks how strong the AFCE was this season, he's pretty much on target. He acknowledges up front that we're better than many Playoff teams but also points out things of which we are all painfully aware--we lost to four of the five Playoff teams we faced and we let the Jests off the hook on that play.

Time to enjoy the games this weekend and think about the future, which is very bright for the Pats.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Little did we know, our season was officially over after the Pittsburgh game.

that's putting it a little more cynically than I would, but I posted after week 13 that, when you looked at the schedules of the Pats and Dolphins after the Steelers game, things favored the Fins. We knew by then that if we both won out, the fish were in. With the Bills, Niners, Chiefs and Jets coming up, the Dolphins were in good shape. Favre looked bad during the Jests loss to the Broncos and, to anyone who lives in NYC, the hint of another late season swoon by the Jets was in the air.

Time to move on.

 

[billdog3484]

the problem i have is with the dolphins. we have identically the same record EXCEPT

we played the colts and steelers and they played the bengals and browns


we had a tougher schedule AND finish better, yet they get the tiebreaker. its a little off to me

 

[Deus Irae]

the problem i have is with the dolphins. we have identically the same record EXCEPT

we played the colts and steelers and they played the bengals and browns


we had a tougher schedule AND finish better, yet they get the tiebreaker. its a little off to me

The league is weighted against winners, and has been for decades.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

the problem i have is with the dolphins. we have identically the same record EXCEPT

we played the colts and steelers and they played the bengals and browns


we had a tougher schedule AND finish better, yet they get the tiebreaker. its a little off to me

someone else has already made that point that that is how the NFL is wired...give teams with bad records a chance to turn themselves around and make it as tuff as ***** for teams with good records. That said, we did lose both of the game that you site. i really don't think that we have much to beef about.

 

[NEPatriot]

billdgo3484
the problem i have is with the dolphins. we have identically the same record EXCEPT

we played the colts and steelers and they played the bengals and browns

we had a tougher schedule AND finish better, yet they get the tiebreaker. its a little off to me

We should have won 1 or 2 games (Jets and Dolphins) but we lost. If we had won 2 games against Jets or Dolphins, we would have played this weekend.

There is no reason for us to complain.

 

[Disco Volante]

-16 games ... They ALL count. Lose 2 in a row and you're in trouble.

Or, lose 8 out of your first 12 and still make the playoffs.

 

[pao]

Or, lose 8 out of your first 12 and still make the playoffs.

For the first time in history. And it took a collosal collapse by the division leader, historic in it's own right.

 

[upstater1]

Except for King's Division Wins comparison, which overlooks how strong the AFCE was this season, he's pretty much on target. He acknowledges up front that we're better than many Playoff teams but also points out things of which we are all painfully aware--we lost to four of the five Playoff teams we faced and we let the Jests off the hook on that play.

Time to enjoy the games this weekend and think about the future, which is very bright for the Pats.

Well, the Chargers went 0-5 against playoff teams, so I'm not sure that's the best measure.

Plus our record against playoff teams this year is what is was in 2001 when we won the SB and 2006 when we took the Colts to the brink.

 

[upstater1]

For the first time in history. And it took a collosal collapse by the division leader, historic in it's own right.

In the late 1990s, there was the possibility of a team winning the old NFC Central with a 7-9 record.

On the last weekend of the season, one of the two division "leaders" won a game and they went in with an 8-8 record. So, I don't think the NFC West result was all that rare, and I certainly expect it to happen again.

Since a team wit a 3-13 record could conceivably knock a team with a 13-3 record out of the playoffs by taking their playoff spot, the NFL needs to put in a rule which doesn't allow teams in without a winning record.

The Patriots could have easily been 12-4 this year and still not made it to the playoffs.

 

[Disco Volante]

For the first time in history. And it took a collosal collapse by the division leader, historic in it's own right.

8-8 teams to make NFL Playoffs...

2008: Chargers *Division Champions*
2006: Giants
2004: Vikings
2004: Rams
1999: Cowboys
1999: Lions
1991: Jets
1990: Saints
1985: Browns *Division Champions*

8-8 team playoff winning percentage: .200%

 

[Jackson 2]

The part of this that shows King to be the dink he truly is, is the "violins" comment. The vast majority of Patriots fans I have heard from have accepted this turn of events as just an example of how things can somewhat be unjust, but that it happens. He makes it sound as though there has been this uprising from Patriots fans that we were screwed. Not the case. But, the truth hasn't been important to Peter Dink since Spygate.

 

[Hardboiled]

King never ceases to befuddle me.

What's the purpose of this article? He defends the system (who actually is complaining about it?) by looking at a one-case situation (Pats-Chargers).

Does that mean he would rewrite if the Broncos got in with 9-7?

The discussion here (in parts) has been so far and above his writing.
He is an amazingly silly writer.

 

[pao]

In the late 1990s, there was the possibility of a team winning the old NFC Central with a 7-9 record.

On the last weekend of the season, one of the two division "leaders" won a game and they went in with an 8-8 record. So, I don't think the NFC West result was all that rare, and I certainly expect it to happen again.

Since a team wit a 3-13 record could conceivably knock a team with a 13-3 record out of the playoffs by taking their playoff spot, the NFL needs to put in a rule which doesn't allow teams in without a winning record.

The Patriots could have easily been 12-4 this year and still not made it to the playoffs.

Agreed. Well put.