First 4-years of earnings for Butler

[shmessy]

Butler is imo very surprisingly showing poor character and being a big baby.

EDIT: @QuantumMechanic "Big Time baby"

How is he being a "big time baby"?

Has he said one word about this?

Has he said that he would make like Mankins and insinuate that the owner is a liar and that he would sit out half a season?

Nice mud slinging job on a player who has been nothing less a PERFECT soldier for the team - - and a great player.


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[shmessy]

Actually it was a word that he will hold out in preseason last year. The word was that he wanted contract but got nothing from Pats IIRC. Couple days ago the word is that he got silly offer like 6-7mil last year. Something isnt right here. Question is, does Butler knows what his agent is doing?

A word?????

Is that like a voice in your head?

Why don't you not act silly and deal with FACTS?

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[ivanvamp]

Butler is doing what he has the right to do - shop around for someone who can offer him more than the $3.9 million tender the Patriots offered him, per the rules of the CBA.

The Patriots are doing what THEY have the right to do - offer him the $3.9 million tender, and if Butler actually gets someone to sign him to an offer sheet, they can either match it (and then Butler plays for the Patriots under the terms of that contract), or they don't match it, at which point Butler becomes property of that other team, under those terms, and that team sends their 1st round pick to New England.

OR... Butler gets that team to work out a deal with the Patriots whereby he signs the tender, and then that team makes a trade to the Patriots for him that's probably not that first round pick, but is something else.

All of this is perfectly acceptable, within the rules of the CBA. Both parties are doing fine so far. Nobody is wronging anybody. Butler is not getting screwed. He's also not being a big baby. This is business.

Personally, I want him to remain a Patriot for a long time. He's one of my favorite players. And the Patriots DID offer him a fairly lucrative extension last year, well in advance of him becoming a free agent. But football is a brutal business, and I don't at all begrudge him looking for a massive payday.

All of this is going just fine, by the rules, and all parties are behaving well.

 

[RIpats88]

The agent has done absolutely nothing wrong by his client. He is just pissing off Patriots fans who love treating these things like a business when the Patriots cut a player, but hate when a player treats it like a business in the final year or so of their obligation to the team.

His client is an RFA and is being shopped around. WTF is this agent supposed to be doing that he isn't? Walk into Belichick's office and bend over?

Nothing wrong with what he is doing. But he WONT be getting offers to pay him as a top 10 cb as he is a RFA and not a UFA

It is unrealistic for him to expect to get UFA money when he is a RFA. Thats how the NFL works. Ok?

 

[Brady6]

You are trying to equate things that are not equal. The contract for Butler was a 3 year deal at less money. The contracts for the second rounders you put forth as a counter are 4 year deals. So...

When Butler's deal ended, and he was finally able to hit the market, he was slapped with the RFA tag. So, the first year post-contract, for Butler, was a finance restricted year. The first year post-contract for those second rounders will be unrestricted free agency.

As I said, your point is silly. You're not alone in buying into the nonsense, though, so you've got that going for you.


Hey, quick question: For the duration of the new free agency rules to date, how many UDFAs have gotten the round 1 tender RFA deal?

I'm not trying to equate anything I'm making a point that Butler will have earned that of an early second round pick would after 4 seasons in the NFL. That is not a terrible outcome for an UDFA.

Butler signed his contract knowing he would be restricted after year 3. He has the right to ask for a new deal and I believe he deserves one but this talk of him being treated unfairly and the Gilmore deal being a slap in the face seems ridiculous to me. Gilmore played out the contract he signed entering the NFL and got paid after it.

The thing nobody seems to acknowledge is that when Gilmore was working hard and playing well in college Butler was getting booted off a community college team for off field incidents. Butler was an UDFA because of his body of work at the time, his next contract will represent his body of work since entering the league.

 

[XLIX]

Nothing wrong with what he is doing. But he WONT be getting offers to pay him as a top 10 cb as he is a RFA and not a UFA

It is unrealistic for him to expect to get UFA money when he is a RFA. Thats how the NFL works. Ok?

What makes you think he is demanding UFA money?

 

[RIpats88]

What makes you think he is demanding UFA money?

From all accounts and sources butler wants at least gilmore $$. Thats what everyone is saying.

If he wanted to take a discount and get long term security early the pats wouldve signed him to an extension. But he turned their offer down.

 

[XLIX]

From all accounts and sources butler wants at least gilmore $$. Thats what everyone is saying.

If he wanted to take a discount and get long term security early the pats wouldve signed him to an extension. But he turned their offer down.

So all you have is completely unsubstantiated rumors. Got it.

Now here's the $64,000 question: what offer did he receive from NE that he turned down? 4/$28? I would've turned that down too. There's "discount" and the there's "getting screwed." 4/$28 is getting screwed.

 

[Kontradiction]

Butler is imo very surprisingly showing poor character and being a big baby.

EDIT: @QuantumMechanic "Big Time baby"

Hahahaha what a stupid post.

 

[RIpats88]

So all you have is completely unsubstantiated rumors. Got it.

Now here's the $64,000 question: what offer did he receive from NE that he turned down? 4/$28? I would've turned that down too. There's "discount" and the there's "getting screwed." 4/$28 is getting screwed.

If you are to believe his demands are unsubstantiated rumors then you also have to believe the pats offer or 7million a year is unsubstantiated rumors

 

[ivanvamp]

So all you have is completely unsubstantiated rumors. Got it.

Now here's the $64,000 question: what offer did he receive from NE that he turned down? 4/$28? I would've turned that down too. There's "discount" and the there's "getting screwed." 4/$28 is getting screwed.

No it's not. When it was offered, before THIS season, Butler had only played 2 years in the NFL. He still was under contract for 2016 for league minimum, plus he was facing a 4th year as a RFA and then a possible 5th year under the franchise tag. So over the three years - 2016, 2017, 2018, he would, at most, if the Pats played it out like they could, make about $18.5 million. None of that, at the time the Patriots made the offer, would have been guaranteed. And then in 2019, if everything broke right for him, he could make a bigger payday, maybe along the lines of $16 million in 2019 as a UFA.

The Patriots offered 4/28, which means, assuming it was spread out evenly, that over the first three years (2016, 2017, 2018), he'd have made $21 million, instead of the $18.5 million that he could have made in the current system. And a bunch of that would have been guaranteed. Then in 2019 he'd have made less than in the current system - if everything broke right - and then he'd be free to roll in huge money.

So no, the offer they made wasn't remotely "screwing" Butler. Not even close.

 

[h0c2000]

I'm not trying to equate anything I'm making a point that Butler will have earned that of an early second round pick would after 4 seasons in the NFL. That is not a terrible outcome for an UDFA.

Butler signed his contract knowing he would be restricted after year 3. He has the right to ask for a new deal and I believe he deserves one but this talk of him being treated unfairly and the Gilmore deal being a slap in the face seems ridiculous to me. Gilmore played out the contract he signed entering the NFL and got paid after it.

The point you are making is true of any and all UDFAs who are offered a first round RFA tender after their first 3 year contract. I would say that yes, it is a terrible outcome for what the Patriots consider a first round talent. But at the same time, that's on him for ending up in West Alabama and not Alabama.

 

[XLIX]

If you are to believe his demands are unsubstantiated rumors then you also have to believe the pats offer or 7million a year is unsubstantiated rumors

Well then you tell me. I've asked many people this question and no one has answered it:

What did the Patriots offer him that he should have accepted but didn't?

 

[XLIX]

No it's not. When it was offered, before THIS season, Butler had only played 2 years in the NFL. He still was under contract for 2016 for league minimum, plus he was facing a 4th year as a RFA and then a possible 5th year under the franchise tag. So over the three years - 2016, 2017, 2018, he would, at most, if the Pats played it out like they could, make about $18.5 million. None of that, at the time the Patriots made the offer, would have been guaranteed. And then in 2019, if everything broke right for him, he could make a bigger payday, maybe along the lines of $16 million in 2019 as a UFA.

The Patriots offered 4/28, which means, assuming it was spread out evenly, that over the first three years (2016, 2017, 2018), he'd have made $21 million, instead of the $18.5 million that he could have made in the current system. And a bunch of that would have been guaranteed. Then in 2019 he'd have made less than in the current system - if everything broke right - and then he'd be free to roll in huge money.

This paragraph is silly for a couple reasons:

1) You take a 4 year deal and then analyze how it would make him more in the first 3 years than the alternative. You conveniently ignore the 4th year and you ignore the fact that he is pushing free agency back from 2017 to 2020 and unrestricted free agency back from 2018 to 2020. 2 years is a lifetime in the NFL.

2) Part of your whole 3-year comparison assumes they are going to franchise him in 2018. So that's another person added to the list of "we will let Garoppolo walk for nothing but a 3rd round compensatory in order to keep Butler here in 2018 for about $15 million". A lot of posters in this forum are in that bucket, but I am not so sure Belichick is in there with you.

So no, the offer they made wasn't remotely "screwing" Butler. Not even close.

I am not going to debate the meaning of the phrase "being screwed" because that is entirely subjective, but fact is he will make a helluva lot more money a heluva lot sooner by having rejected that offer than he would have by accepting it.

 

[brdmaverick]

The Patriots called MB when no one else did... NO ONE ELSE... and gave him a shot. Yes, he made the most of it. Yes, he saved a Super Bowl. Yes, he is now a top 15 CB. But without BB giving him the chance to play, he's an assistant manager at Popeyes Chicken.

Your statements are all very true, but the problem is that I suspect you are saying them to suggest that Butler should have a sense of loyalty.

I mentioned something similar in another thread but.........

It would be tough to expect a player to display loyalty for an organization that does not. I don't say that as a negative against the Pats either because their lack of emotion/loyalty has worked wonders for them. I just think that it would be unfair to expect a player to be loyal when we know the organization won't be. I think it's completely understandable for both sides to have their business needs as priority #1.

 

[ivanvamp]

This paragraph is silly for a couple reasons:

1) You take a 4 year deal and then analyze how it would make him more in the first 3 years than the alternative. You conveniently ignore the 4th year and you ignore the fact that he is pushing free agency back from 2017 to 2020 and unrestricted free agency back from 2018 to 2020. 2 years is a lifetime in the NFL.

2) Part of your whole 3-year comparison assumes they are going to franchise him in 2018. So that's another person added to the list of "we will let Garoppolo walk for nothing but a 3rd round compensatory in order to keep Butler here in 2018 for about $15 million". A lot of posters in this forum are in that bucket, but I am not so sure Belichick is in there with you.
I am not going to debate the meaning of the phrase "being screwed" because that is entirely subjective, but fact is he will make a helluva lot more money a heluva lot sooner by having rejected that offer than he would have by accepting it.

Nothing I said was remotely silly. Football is a very tough sport where careers end in an instant. There was ZERO guarantee that Butler was going to make it to year four. The Patriots were offering him, at a time when they didn't have to do anything other than pay him league minimum, a 4 year deal worth $28 million, with X amount (not sure what the exact number was) guaranteed.

There is nothing REMOTELY "screwing Butler" about that.

Butler would have had to have EVERYTHING go right in order to make out better under the current system than if he had accepted the Patriots' 4/28 offer.

 

[XLIX]

Nothing I said was remotely silly. Football is a very tough sport where careers end in an instant.

True. And yet you want Butler to wait until 2020 to cash in.

There was ZERO guarantee that Butler was going to make it to year four. The Patriots were offering him, at a time when they didn't have to do anything other than pay him league minimum, a 4 year deal worth $28 million, with X amount (not sure what the exact number was) guaranteed.

There is nothing REMOTELY "screwing Butler" about that.

Butler would have had to have EVERYTHING go right in order to make out better under the current system than if he had accepted the Patriots' 4/28 offer.

Do you even realize how much you contradict yourself? You say he should wait until 2020 to cash in, but then you say he needed EVERYTHING to go right just to make it to 2017.

All he needed to gain from rejecting that offer was to have played 1 year at his established level and avoided injury. Which is exactly what happened.

Butler's agent would have been a complete moron to accept 4/$28 last year. I wish he had because then Butler would be staying, but it would have been a completely idiotic move.

 

[ivanvamp]

True. And yet you want Butler to wait until 2020 to cash in.

He was being offered $28 million dollars, with a bunch of it GUARANTEED. He had ZERO guarantees without accepting the offer.

Do you even realize how much you contradict yourself? You say he should wait until 2020 to cash in, but then you say he needed EVERYTHING to go right just to make it to 2017.

I don't think you're following very well.

All he needed to gain from rejecting that offer was to have played 1 year at his established level and avoided injury. Which is exactly what happened.

There were NO guarantees. The Patriots were offering SOME guarantees when they didn't need to offer him ANYTHING. And they were offering a hell of a lot of money. $28 million isn't chump change, especially for a guy who entered the league as an UDFA.

Butler's agent would have been a complete moron to accept 4/$28 last year. I wish he had because then Butler would be staying, but it would have been a completely idiotic move.

Depends on what you want. If you want the guarantees up front, it's worth doing. In baseball, players often take extensions before they hit free agency. They trade some $$ for the security of the guaranteed money.

 

[tasmlab]

So.............why is Dimples the best backup QB ever?

Sheesh, the guy has as many rings as Peyton Manning!

 

[tasmlab]

True. And yet you want Butler to wait until 2020 to cash in.
Do you even realize how much you contradict yourself? You say he should wait until 2020 to cash in, but then you say he needed EVERYTHING to go right just to make it to 2017.

All he needed to gain from rejecting that offer was to have played 1 year at his established level and avoided injury. Which is exactly what happened.

Butler's agent would have been a complete moron to accept 4/$28 last year. I wish he had because then Butler would be staying, but it would have been a completely idiotic move.

Just to pile on, Butler will be 30 in 2020. There's a chance he may only get one super contract in his entire career.