David Givens:What should be offered?

[Digger44]

Before Givens decide to go elsewhere, he has to think about the following:

1. It was the Patriots who drafted him in the seventh round and who gave him the opportunity not only to play in the league, but also to start and to make a name for himself.

2. He has to look at what happened to David Patten after he left the team. Patten not only was treated like dirt at Washington, he completely disappeared from the face of the earth. Patten was actually healthy to play in the playoff, but the Redskins decided not to play him.

3. For a little less money, Givens will continue to start with one the most dominant teams in the league and have the opportunity to play in the playoff and win a few more Lombardis. He will continue to be treated with respect by fans and the organizations. He will continue to have Tom Brady throw him touchdowns.

A lot of factors go into the decision making process about jobs. Money is certainly one of the most important factors. But there are other compelling reasons as well, such as comfort level and relationship with teammates, coaches, and owners.

Givens must remember this fact: without the Patriots, he may not even be playing in the league today.

.

1. You can rant and rave all you want the fact is that the NFL is a business. Can't blame the guy if he grabs a bigger American dream and cashes in.

2. This is invalid because of the age difference. Patten is the the decline and Givens is young and hasn't peaked yet. Givens has a bright future and Patten does not.

3. Who is to say he cannot do this elsewhere? It scare the crap out of us if he signed with the Steelers because he would be perfect for Ward.

3.5 2 million dollars more that what the Pats may offer will make him very comfortable, so familiarity and comfort do not matter.

Givens must remember the fact:.....you have no evidence of this. It is pure speculation. He just happened to do it with us and I am glad he did. You insult his ability and desire to say he could not have done it elsewhere.

None of your reasons are logical or compelling for Givens to stay.

 

[dryheat44]

Before Givens decide to go elsewhere, he has to think about the following:

1. It was the Patriots who drafted him in the seventh round and who gave him the opportunity not only to play in the league, but also to start and to make a name for himself.

2. He has to look at what happened to David Patten after he left the team. Patten not only was treated like dirt at Washington, he completely disappeared from the face of the earth. Patten was actually healthy to play in the playoff, but the Redskins decided not to play him.

1. And he responded by busting his a@@ for four years for them, the last two grossly underpaid (relatively speaking). No further consideration is warranted. The Patriots didn't give him the opportunity to start, he forced that opportunity by working hard and proving himself to be good enough.

2. While David Patten had a disappointing start to the season, he's been on IR for a few months. So whether he was healthy enough to play, he couldn't per NFL rules.

 

[bigsid05]

The whole Givens-Houshmanzadeh parallel is a good one. I think he deserves the same contract. I don't think that much is extravagant so I hope the Pats are able to re-sign him.

 

[Miguel]

I completely agree with Digger44 and dryheat44.

IMO, Givens owes the Patriots nothing.

 

[patsfaninpa]

Givens is the poster-boy for what is wrong with the NFL's
salary rules. The only way you can make any money in your
first contract is if you're a high draft pick. Doesn't matter how
good you are. It's where your drafted. A lower pick comes in
and impresses immediately and he's screwed because he was
a 7th round pick. While some jerk like Charles Rogers in Detroit
pocketed a 14m signing bonus. NFL should slot signing bonuses
according to where drafted like baseball. Then rookies should
be paid a minimum salary unless the team wants to give them
more. Would allow players like Givens and Koppen to earn some
money for their performance. While, if a guy flops. You aren't
forced to pay some outrageous salary.

 

[dryheat44]

Givens is the poster-boy for what is wrong with the NFL's
salary rules. The only way you can make any money in your
first contract is if you're a high draft pick. Doesn't matter how
good you are. It's where your drafted. A lower pick comes in
and impresses immediately and he's screwed because he was
a 7th round pick. While some jerk like Charles Rogers in Detroit
pocketed a 14m signing bonus. NFL should slot signing bonuses
according to where drafted like baseball. Then rookies should
be paid a minimum salary unless the team wants to give them
more. Would allow players like Givens and Koppen to earn some
money for their performance. While, if a guy flops. You aren't
forced to pay some outrageous salary.

The next CBA will address this.

 

[Miguel]

Givens must remember this fact: without the Patriots, he may not even be playing in the league today.

This is not a fact. It is your opinion. Calling your opinion a fact does not make it a fact.

 

[PATSNUTme]

I do agree with Digger44 and Dryheat44. You guys aren't related are you, 44 being your last name?

Anyway, when I started this thread I wanted to get an idea where Givens will be $ wise and if the Patriots can afford to match that #.

Givens will go where the most money is. I don't blame him. One hit and his NFL carrer is over. Grab it while you can.

 

[DaBruinz]

I see David Givens and I see a player who is on par with or slightly behind TJ Houshmandzedah. Housh got a 4 year 13 million contract last year as well. I don't think Givens should get more than that. And, while Givens MAY be better than some #1 WRs (anyone care to offer a list) I don't believe he is better than over half of them.

 

[DaBruinz]

Before Givens decide to go elsewhere, he has to think about the following:

1. It was the Patriots who drafted him in the seventh round and who gave him the opportunity not only to play in the league, but also to start and to make a name for himself.

2. He has to look at what happened to David Patten after he left the team. Patten not only was treated like dirt at Washington, he completely disappeared from the face of the earth. Patten was actually healthy to play in the playoff, but the Redskins decided not to play him.

Patten was IRed back on November 19th. So your saying that Patten was healthy is BS.

http://sports-att.espn.go.com/nfl/teams/transactions?team=was
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=4172

3. For a little less money, Givens will continue to start with one the most dominant teams in the league and have the opportunity to play in the playoff and win a few more Lombardis. He will continue to be treated with respect by fans and the organizations. He will continue to have Tom Brady throw him touchdowns.

A lot of factors go into the decision making process about jobs. Money is certainly one of the most important factors. But there are other compelling reasons as well, such as comfort level and relationship with teammates, coaches, and owners.

Givens must remember this fact: without the Patriots, he may not even be playing in the league today.

.

This is true. Givens may not be playing in the league. But he is. And we don't know if anyone might have signed him as a street free agent.

 

[Digger44]

I completely agree with Digger44 and dryheat44.

IMO, Givens owes the Patriots nothing.

Thanks Miguel. That means a lot coming from a guy like you. Keep up the great work.

 

[Digger44]

I do agree with Digger44 and Dryheat44. You guys aren't related are you, 44 being your last name?

Anyway, when I started this thread I wanted to get an idea where Givens will be $ wise and if the Patriots can afford to match that #.

Givens will go where the most money is. I don't blame him. One hit and his NFL carrer is over. Grab it while you can.

no relation, have argued in the past, but it is all good. besides, he has me outposted.

 

[ilduce06410]

thanks, workhorse

I was curious, so I went and found that Starks is around $5.1 million and McGinest counts around $8.3 milion. Just FYI.

you got the correct information, not me.
i gotta learn to read one of these days.

 

[flutie2phelan]

Givens must remember this fact: without the Patriots, he may not even be playing in the league today.

I think about that all the time with Stephen Neal. Glad u reminded us that it's also true for David.

Somehow, i don't think free agents ever bother calculating the net present value of gratitude.

 

[shakadave]

To answer the question, I'd offer Givens 2.6 million per year. Then when it's Branch's turn, give him 2.7. I'm not saying they'd accept....

 

[mgteich]

me four
-----------------
Givens owes us? That is a strange idea. We paid next to nothing for three years and $1.4M for the fourth. The Patriots received great value for what we paid.

The suggestion by many last year was that we should have paid more last year to make up for his being so grossly underpaid over his first three years. The patriots decided not to pay him real money last year, and made him wait (and risk injury for the year).

I agree with the patriots decision last year. However, the consequence is that Givens certainly owes us nothing. I suspect that he will go to a team that offers to include him in their long term plans, and pays him well for doing so, a team that really WANTS to have him on the team. Given our offers last year, it seems unlikely that the patriots will convince him to stay, or will make much of an effort.
------------------

BTW, IMHO the dissing of Patten is way, way off base. We missed him very much this year, and he did NOT fail in Cleveland. He was injured and was on IR. I understand that there is a preference for a younger players, because they are less susceptible to injury and reduction in production. Of course, we replaced Patten with Troy Brown.

I completely agree with Digger44 and dryheat44.

IMO, Givens owes the Patriots nothing.

 

[Digger44]

I think about that all the time with Stephen Neal. Glad u reminded us that it's also true for David.

Somehow, i don't think free agents ever bother calculating the net present value of gratitude.

I am so glad that Givens got a free ride through us to get to the NFL. He never showed up to practice. He ate twinkies all day. He did not work whatsoever. He is lazy. He weighs 400 lbs. He always failed the conditioning test. He should be greatful that his 400lb butt made it on our team because he certainly did no work to get where he is today. I am suprised we have a jersy that fits him.

 

[Brady'sButtBoy]

While I really admire Givens for his toughness and how he made himself into a true NFL player, I think he tends to be a bit overvalued here. Don't forget that he has had one of the best ever throwing the ball to him, with one of the best ever as a HC also. I'm not saying he is a 'system' player but to me he just isn't fast enough to demand top dollar as a WR. Durable and dependable, with effort levels apparently off the chart make him an important piece of the Pats success but not one that can be paid big money to retain.

He is not as good as a Hines Ward - Givens doesn't demand double coverage, score enough, catch enough balls, or accumulate enough total yardage to be with rated with a guy like Ward.

One could argue Givens isn't in Ward's league because Givens has been behind Branch. Well, if Givens was good enough to be a number one why hasn't he simply beat out Branch for that role here?

My guess is someone will offer him far more money that could ever be worth to the Pats, say around 4mil/yr, and he will move on. And Givens will be succesful and maybe get near a 1000 yd season or two but will never be considered among the elite in the league and thus should never be paid like one...

He owes nothing to the Pats, I agree

 

[brdmaverick]

remember, Givens and the Pats failed to reach a contract extension during last year's offseason

I think contract talks failed because Givens was looking to become an unrestricted free agent and get a big payday

someone will pay him

 

[mgteich]

Playing with no wide receivers at all (or with all jags) puts a serious crimp in your offense. As you point out, if we offer as you indicated, they will be soon gone after the offer.
----------------------------
Here's a potential March 2 real offer (good for one week)

$22M four years, $4.4M average
2006 $1 salary, $5M bonus
2007 $2M salary
2008 $3M salary
2009 $5M salary
2010 $6M salary
plus the usual playoff and probowl incentives

You can substitute roster bonuses and option payments, but I think this is a reasonable base offer.

I think that Givens will get approximately this from some one. The reason for the short time frame is that the pats need to move quickly or move on. We ahe an absolute need to solve the wide receiver situation. The offer could be the same a month late. However, I suspect that by then the cap money will ahve been spent elsewhere.

To answer the question, I'd offer Givens 2.6 million per year. Then when it's Branch's turn, give him 2.7. I'm not saying they'd accept....